I guess it's time for a bass upgrade

Jase

Distinguished Member
Seems to make quite a different at the higher frequencies

Yes. I think it's worth trying even if only on the sub in the rear corner of your room. That one rotated wouldn't look too out of place although having it aimed directly into the sofa could become quite annoying after a while. I'd try it aimed at the side wall.
 

Jase

Distinguished Member
Hmmm I am not sure If it got the subs aligned properly to the mains and if they are out phase causing any issues for the bass frequencies

XT on my old Denon used to barely do anything to the bass frequencies. XT32 is a completely different ballgame in that respect with far more taps/filters available.

Audyssey versions.png


I wouldn't rely on Audyssey correcting things so would look into seeing if the MiniDSP can take up the slack and help it out further.
 
Last edited:

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Looks like the new room is going to be doorway to heaven! Harder hitting bass and can pressurise that room in a totally different way. It will be night and day difference. Also getting some big screen with projector over small tv = gives real cinematic feeling which you won´t really get with these tiny tv`s.

You can play with REWs room sim for the new room as it`s fairly squre shaped. Usually it´s quite spot on with dips/nulls (reported) so can help when starting to design the room.

Another thing is that floor type which is likely different than in downstairs, so perhaps some extra TR?
 

John24ssj

Active Member
So I blocked a doorway with a mattress to see if there would be any difference:
IMG_20210818_205804.jpg


For higher frequencies it was rather good as there was no longer an echo chamber in there, but sadly for bass it didn't really do much :/ will it did nothing, I could need a much harder and thicker surface for that.

I'm going to go through the calibrations again today as I moved the center channel closer and also still attempt to add a house curve to the subs as well.

Also after you run Audyssey by how much do you usually boost the sub trim?
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Also after you run Audyssey by how much do you usually boost the sub trim?

I don't change the level setting after Audyssey. But I use the Dynamic EQ with an offset of either 10dB or sometimes 5dB and that effectively raises the sub activity at lower listening levels.
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
So I blocked a doorway with a mattress to see if there would be any difference:

For higher frequencies it was rather good as there was no longer an echo chamber in there, but sadly for bass it didn't really do much :/ will it did nothing, I could need a much harder and thicker surface for that.

I'm going to go through the calibrations again today as I moved the center channel closer and also still attempt to add a house curve to the subs as well.

Also after you run Audyssey by how much do you usually boost the sub trim?
Nice idea but I'm pretty sure that deep bass frequencies would pass through that like it wasn't there.
 

scoobysmiff

Active Member
I still think you should try dropping your front speakers to 80hz as well, it's not going to hurt even just to rule it out?
 

John24ssj

Active Member
I don't change the level setting after Audyssey. But I use the Dynamic EQ with an offset of either 10dB or sometimes 5dB and that effectively raises the sub activity at lower listening levels.
That's what I've done in the past but it seems that everyone seems to recommend turning it off


Nice idea but I'm pretty sure that deep bass frequencies would pass through that like it wasn't there.
Oh yeah only a solid wall would help

I still think you should try dropping your front speakers to 80hz as well, it's not going to hurt even just to rule it out?
I will be trying that :)
 

scoobysmiff

Active Member
Excellent, will be keeping fingers crossed for you, we all know only to well how frustrating this can be :)
 

John24ssj

Active Member
Since I'm adding house curve I am not sure if using dynamic EQ would be too much. Most people said to add house curve, disable DEQ and just boost bass trim post audyssey by +3/+6dB as audyssey sets bass trim too low.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
That's what I've done in the past but it seems that everyone seems to recommend turning it off

Are you thinking of Dynamic Volume?

I'd say with Dynamic EQ, the general AVF advice is "try on, off and different offsets and decide what you're happiest with".

Great thing with your AVR (like mine) is it remembers it for each source too.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Could the receiver be the problem as suggested previously the 2600 has the basic Audyssey where the models above have XT32 maybe a swap of receiver might help.

I take it your main speakers are set to small rather than large, what sort of receiver volume are you listening at?.

Have you tried walking round your two rooms and listening where the bass sounds best to your taste and therefore proving that your setup can deliver, just that it's room nodes that are causing the issues.
 

John24ssj

Active Member
Are you thinking of Dynamic Volume?

I'd say with Dynamic EQ, the general AVF advice is "try on, off and different offsets and decide what you're happiest with".

Great thing with your AVR (like mine) is it remembers it for each source too.
No, pretty much the advice is to have everything that Audyssey offers off. And I only plan to add a gentle house curve and see how it goes.


Could the receiver be the problem as suggested previously the 2600 has the basic Audyssey where the models above have XT32 maybe a swap of receiver might help.

I take it your main speakers are set to small rather than large, what sort of receiver volume are you listening at?.

Have you tried walking round your two rooms and listening where the bass sounds best to your taste and therefore proving that your setup can deliver, just that it's room nodes that are causing the issues.
I do think my receiver is rather basic :( Looking at XT32 stuff they appear to offer far better integration between speakers.

For youtube and basic TV: -35dB
Netflix, Disney+, Prime: -15dB/-20dB
UHD Blu-rays: -10dB
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
So for basic tv at -35db I doubt the bass would be very audible but once you get to around -15db and -10db like when you are watching blurays with uncompressed audio the bass should be pretty awesome. However if you have suckout that will drain most of the dynamics, so like I said walk around the 2 rooms with some strong bass material playing and see where it sounds best. At least you can identify if your kit can do what you want.
 

John24ssj

Active Member
Progress so far. It appears that inverting the subs give by far the best output and setting crossover to 90Hz is the sweet-spot for Subs + center channel.
1629369217266.png



Response below of 90Hz crossover with normal and inverted subs:
Inverted.png


As you can see the difference is huge!
 

John24ssj

Active Member
I did it!!! After all of the these years I did it!!!

So went for a quite flat response to keep the mid bass high and it looks like inverting the subs played really well with the center and mains.

I just played the race section of Ready Player One and WOW, I got a proper chest thump all the way through and at one point I felt my hair shake :D It was so awesome I genuinely almost burst into tears 🥲🥲🥲🥲 Bass was tight and crisp not even a slightest hint of being bloated or boomey.

I did some music listening too and it was great could not fault it in any way.

HOWEVER, the center channel is disappointing. Voices coming from QA 3090C were super flat and lifeless. It's odd as I absolutely love my QA 3050s but I do feel that center channel is really lacking :(

When will I be finally completely happy????????
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Never :D

Well done though progress at last:thumbsup:
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Quoting myself to you from a few days ago. You have the bug. It will never end. 🤣
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Well done, I always knew the subs weren’t the problem.

The problem with your centre is its tiny 4” drivers whereas your mains have twin 6.5” drivers. You’d do well to find a much larger centre speaker (ideally with twin 6.5” drivers) as they usually have far more impact.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Sorry to sound stupid. I realise what the solution was but what was the reason why? Sorry if I've missed it.
 

John24ssj

Active Member
Well done, I always knew the subs weren’t the problem.

The problem with your centre is its tiny 4” drivers whereas your mains have twin 6.5” drivers. You’d do well to find a much larger centre speaker (ideally with twin 6.5” drivers) as they usually have far more impact.
It's a shame, I really like the QA lineup but you are right those 4" drivers are just not up to par to the with the towers :(


Sorry to sound stupid. I realise what the solution was but what was the reason why? Sorry if I've missed it.
I think it's a mix of things. I went for a fairly flat response thus at 75dB the mid bass was level with low end bass. If I went to have a house curve a 75dB response the mid was would have been really low compared to 15hz-40Hz region.

BUT also inverting the subs to match the center and main channels seemed to help quite a bit with cancellations I feel. This is my best quest, even after all this time I am but an amateur.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
inverting the subs to match the center and main channels seemed to help quite a bit with cancellations I feel. This is my best quest, even after all this time I am but an amateur.

That's the bit I don't understand fully. Doesn't Audyssey align the sub or subs to be in phase with the other speakers? (I'd assume the LCR).

If not, without the equipment that you have to measure, how would anyone know if they need their sub or subs inverted?
 

John24ssj

Active Member
That's the bit I don't understand fully. Doesn't Audyssey align the sub or subs to be in phase with the other speakers? (I'd assume the LCR).

If not, without the equipment that you have to measure, how would anyone know if they need their sub or subs inverted?
Well I would not trust Audyssey XT for anything. This is what it did post calibration:
1629376630974.png


I mean WTF???? So yeah I guess XT32 is better but at least with my setup XT only makes things 100% worse.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
I suppose, for me with no measuring equipment (well, except Spectroid 🤣) I could (before Audyssey) with 80Hz crossover that is the point where the mains and subs would be both together and try an 80Hz test tone. Assume, using my Dobby ears, it will sound louder when phase on sub is closer to mains.
 

sanjualf

Active Member
John wow glad you have some nice bass at last. It’s all to do with integration and time aligning.
I have small driver MA apex and they sound awesome as centre channel so your q acoustics should be fine. Try fine tuning with slightly changing centre channel distance to see if they are getting better integrated with the subs
 

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