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I fell in love with the 435XDE today.....shall I really wait for the new Viera?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by BigGanja, Feb 21, 2005.

  1. BigGanja

    BigGanja
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    Ok, today I had a brief tour in Tottenham Court road cause I'm looking for a plasma and wanted to see what they actually look like

    thank to you guys I made myself a general idea reading several threads It seems the Viera is the first choice
    anyway I entered couple of shops which had both the panny and the pioneer.....and man, difference is HUGE, pioneer shows the best picture I've ever seen in my life WAY more natural than the panny

    to be precise, both were displaying toy story via component cables

    now my question as thread title suggest: would you reccomend me to get the Pioneer now? or waiting for the new HD Vieras (if not wrong due next spring)

    I'm quite a n00b regarding plasma so I eventually need your help if any other screen fit my requirements
    what really interest me are the following:
    -DVD progressive scan NTSC.....since all my DVD are R1
    -good RGB signal for videogame consoles
    dont really care about PAL, analog and Sky pq

    thanks in advance for any suggestion and sorry my crappy english...just learning :hiya:
     
  2. RzSwede

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    Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, but watching traditional NTSC material only utilizes 480 lines (as opposed to 576 in PAL) so I'm not quite sure you'll benefit from the increased resolution that the Pioneer offers in contrast to the Panasonic. Maybe the Viera is high res too but I am refering to the Panny plasma often compared to the Pioneer 43x.

    I will myself be getting the 435 in the next few days mainly because I don't want to downgrade the PAL image to 480 lines and because I like the look of it. And I actually prefer the media box as it makes the plasma lighter and I can run one cable instead of a whole heap full from the AV stand to the screen itself.

    Rz
     
  3. rscott4563

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    First thing I'd say is NEVER demo a plasma with Toy Story or any other animation dvd. They always look good and do not show the real capabilities or problems a plasma may have... Unless of course you only ever want to watch Toy Story and Monsters Inc at home.. :D

    Also unless you have setup the display properly yourself (using DVE or AVIA if you know how) or have had it setup by a professional. The comparing two displays is pointless even if the connection and source are the same.

    If you do want to demo two different screens then the best bet is to take along a copy of AVIA or DVE and some DVD's which will really challenge a display and then ask if you can setup the displays yourself.

    Ryan
     
  4. gizlaroc

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    Yeah toy story definitely looks better on the pioneer, but the Pioneer to me has cartoony colours anyway, where as the Panasonic has more natural tones.

    I would definitely take a proper disc along and view some proper material on the 2.
     
  5. Ymegod

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    Ganja my man, whilst agreeing 100% with Ryan re ; judging a plasma screen using Toy Story et al you have to be careful not to criticise the Holy Grail of plasmas on this Forum.
    Check the kit list of both Ryan and gizlaroc and you will see that which I mean.
     
  6. johnnycab

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    I also took a stroll down "Tottenham Ct. Rd." last week - to view my potential decisions after educating myself here first. I had previously fallen for the same ploy i.e. the Toy Story on a 50" Pioneer in some nondescript shopping mall, and was sucked into the shop - like a kid into a spearmint rhino. After hearing words like; DVI, HDMI, Future proof etc. - my eyes just glazed over.

    However, I also saw some demo's at the Pioneer 'stand' @Novotel last year - they were playing Matrix Reloaded. I was suitably impressed - obviously the screen had been tweaked and all the equipment/cabling was good quality etc. Nevertheless, I had never seen a proper TV feed either via standard Aerial, Freeview or Sky - on ANY Pioneer plasma.

    There was one guy in these seemingly similar Tott. Ct. Rd. shops - which was more than helpful and wired up the Freeview box to the 435XDE and showed me the quality - it was not fantastic, but I knew I could tweak it to my taste. I went home - thought about it, and ordered a 435XDE - which is arriving sometime this week.

    In addition, I also viewed a Pio 435XDE & Panny WD7 side by side - with exactly the same TV feed, further down the road. The Panny does have more natural tones and seems more smoother. But, they seemed to be setup straight out of the box - I just went for the bling factor...

    First thing I will stream to my screen is: TS 1&2!
     
  7. splnter

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    Hi, There, I am also thinking of getting the 435XDE or the 435HDE !!!
    But i have just looked at what hi-fi, and richer sounds are doing the FDE, For £2400 now.. And i know John lewis price matches. But they dont do the 435XDE Only the FDE.. Well i will have to phone them and find out. :)

    But after reading what you chaps have said about the 435XDE I think thats the one i want now. !!!!
     
  8. BigGanja

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    thanks for replies

    I think yesterday I a bit overreacted...heh

    honestily I've always been a Panasonic fan (other than a Sony hater) but I'd be a fool if I didn't admit it
    By difference I meant anyway that Pioneer'e colors looked so much more natural, same as a CRT
    while panny ones were too much bright...almost shining (if this adjective makes ANY sense) I guess digital artifacts but meh...maybe you guys are right, cant take toy story as a good starting point to compare the 2 screens
    and probably Viera need to be calibrated more accurately

    however I'm getting very curious about viera pv500 so I think I'll wait

    laterS
     
  9. gizlaroc

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    If you think the Panasonic had brighter colurs then the screens were not set up very well, the colours should look the same once calibrated, but straight out the box the Pioneer has the stronger colours.

    Maybe worth waiting now to see what happens.
     
  10. rscott4563

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    :rolleyes: :oops: :rolleyes:

    I'll remember not to try and advise anyone again, I'd hate to be accused of being biased....

    Ryan :suicide: :devil:

    :rotfl: ;)
     
  11. MAW

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    Ryan, they obviously haven't seen you cursing Pansonic about digital video if they think you are biased!
    On the subject of setup, TCR must be the worst street in the universe to get a proper demo, just like a line of currys all in a row. TS looks good even on composite, and if the Panasonic looked bright, you can bet it was composite video over scart. Pioneers are often demonstrated with high definition sources over the HDMI connection. Very nice, they are brilliant at this, but it's not the real world. End of the day, the XDE is a consumer device designed for easy setup by the masses, and it suffers for it in various areas. Just like buying an all in one home cinema, or a midi 'hi fi' set, a triumph of style at all costs. But that digital connection looks sooo good.
     
  12. gizlaroc

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    I wasn't going to entertain you with a reply to that, but, I have changed my mind, so......


    I originally went to buy a Plasma for TV viewing, and took a day out to go and see the Pioneer MXe1 vs the 433, after spending a while looking at them I decided that I actually prefered the look of the Panasonic that was also there, which is what I ended up buying. This was back in June.
    With all the talk of HD and hdmi I decedied a few weeks ago to give the Pioneer another go, the 435XDE. My mate has one and asked if I could go round and try and tweak his set, he had bought it after selling his panny PW5 and couldn't get it looking right, I took this opportunity to take over a load of discs that I know very well and I have used to get various crt projectors, lcd projectors and dlp projectors looking great, as well as my PW6, and have a good play with teh Pioneer.
    First thing was the colour, it was far too hot, but after knocking it right down it looked alot better, although there was to much green in the image but we got rid of that, the contrast is way over the top as well, but you can knock it back to usable levels without killing whites too badly. Once this was done the image was pretty good, and my only concern were the blacks, or lack of.
    (this was using his DV79 btw.)
    No matter what you do the pioneer cannot do blacks, as soon as you get to a dark scene the whole thing for me falls apart, that 3d snap is gone and I am distracted knowing that it just isn't right. I am sure that alot of people would not be bothered by this though, as they have probably never seen what it is meant to look like. Overall though the image was pretty nice and I could live with it, but would not swap my Panasonc for it.


    Then we put sky on. Oh Dear!! :eek:
    It looked a mess, anything other than a brightly lit and motionless studio shot looked terrible, we played with all the settings but we could not get it looking right, there was what I can only describe as a sort of smearing of colours, like you used to get on the very first lcd computer monitors. And my god, if you like sport then you are buggered, the players in football left a trail as well as the ball.
    And I am sure there is some sort of frame rate conversion going on with this panel as the motion is not exactly the smoothest I have seen.
    He sold his pw5 for £800 and paid just short of £3k for the 435xde, and to say he was gutted is some what of an understatement. Luckily he knows the place he bought it from very well and they swapped it for a viera that his father has had, and he bought himself an hd7.

    I still wanted to get away from Panasonic and get something that was HD compatible, and after reading all the glowing reviews on the new NEC HD models on the avsforums I decided to go for one of those, so I sold my Panasonic and ordered the NEC.
    You can search for my opinion on the NEC, again I thought comapred to the Panasonic it looked processed, and again it could not do blacks! I spent a week trying to get the most out of it and I still didn't like it, so I sold it for a £500 loss and bought another Panasonic, an HD6.

    I have no reason to prefer the Pansonic over the Pioneer, and with the Pioneer I love the way it has a media box for all the connections, and the way it supports all the Hi-Def resolutions straight out the box, and it is one of the best designs I have ever seen on a tv but at the end of the day quite simply the Panasonic screens have a much better image, you will need to add a scaler for HD, and the thing is pig ugly hanging on the wall, but the picture is in a different league to the Pioneer, and, that to me is more important than all the above.

    So yes, I am biased towards the Panny because it is a better screen. Simple as that. And everyone I know who has spent any time with both of these screens says the same thing.
     
  13. MAW

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    The accusations of bias by 435 owners smack of a biblical quote, about specks of dust and planks of wood. It may be the only properly HD compatible screen out there, but just now SD compatible is what you need. There is no HD unless it's from a PC, and they don't connect properly to 435s. I've even been told by a Pioneer employee 'it's not for AV purists, it's just a big flat telly'. Whilst I am not a posessor of knitted ties, nor do I wear socks and open toe sandals, therefore do not rate myself as an AV purist, it's simply not good enough for me thank you. I can and do have anything I like on my wall, change it every week if it wasn't for having to reprogram the iPronto (not to be undertaken lightly). I have never yet chosen to have an XDE in my home, it's simply not up to the job.
     
  14. danny daniell

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    There seems to be pro`s & cons with all of these screens & one has to offset strengths & weaknesses to suit ones particular requirements....I agree what guy says about the XDE blacks, but i see this as a trade off for the HDMI input. colours are rich & vivid, yes they can sometimes appear a little cartoonish but for me that makes watching t.v that bit more of a trip... Image is also nice & bright & as for that piano gloss frame?....well er indoors absolutely loves it : there was no way on this earth she would have let me blow £3,600 on a telly if she did`nt like the look of the damn thing!
    I guess if there had been a Viera with HDMI for sale at the time then i probably would have gone for it,but there wasnt so i have the Pioneer & as an allrounder it does the job just fine...roll on HD

    Dan

    BTW since Gordon tweaked it, Sky looks good to me :)
     
  15. mucca_D

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    Oldest trick in the book.

    :eek: Turn the brighnes up on the TV you want to sell :eek:

    but then dont listen to me I bought a tiny :oops:
     
  16. splnter

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    Right i phoned currys and JL And Richer sounds And they said they cant get hold of the xde only the fde at the mo !!

    So i phoned pioneer up to find out if there is a dealer near me that has a xde in stock !!! And yes they have found one in my town [Sinclair Youngs] !!! So the next day off i have [ Friday ] I will go and have a play to see what i really think of this xde.

    Ohh yes.. pioneer also said they have a shortage of the XDE,s at the min, as
    as its the best one they do. And is selling out everywhere. And they cant keep up.


    Ohh and if any one whats to get the FDE Richer sounds its now £2400.. :smashin:
    Look in what hi- fi for the add. :)
     
  17. alscds

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    jl only stock 50" xde and 43" fde however i do know of a customer who managed to get the 43 xde from them after stating he had been misinformed on the specs of the fde. (nice little loophole eh !)
     
  18. johnnycab

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    I just took delivery of my Pioneer PDP435XDE. However, on the box it has other models printed below the the model no. PDP435PE i.e 435XDE, FDE & HDE. I could not figure out which I had.

    Although, I remember reading some details on the forum. But, I could not be bothered to search it. So I called Pioneer - the guy I got hold of was absolutely useless. His standard response to everything was - "Everyone gets confused about that...."

    Nevertheless, the short of it is: it is the media receiver that makes the panel what it is! i.e. the RO5XE (435 or 505XDE)/ RO5E (435 /505HDE)/ R05FE (435 or 505FDE)

    I still have a question that is unanswered, hopefully someone might be able to help. I ordered a Table Top Stand PDKT-S05, but received a S04 - what is difference between the two? apart from being the 'last year' model - as answered by the monkey at the Pioneer helpdesk.

    Cheers
     
  19. attach

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    I dont care what people say about the pio's lack of black ect, ect I have yet to see a better pic on Any plasma than on the pio via a dvd with hdmi.
     
  20. Warpaint

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    As far as I can tell the S04 is slightly heavier than the S05. Probably because the 434 panel is heavier than the 435.
    Otherwise identical.
     
  21. johnnycab

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    Warpaint - You are possibly right, it does weigh a bit. However, according to the Pioneer site the weight is the same(?!) i.e. 14 Kg - but, the dimensions are different...

    S04 - (W x D x H): 684 x 390 x 351 mm
    S05 - (W x D x H): 577 x 380 x 351 mm

    I am now left wondering, whether the 435 will fit the S04 stand?

    Cheers
     
  22. MAW

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    The stand fits to the wall mount bracket holes IIRC, and these have been unchanged for 4 years to my certain knowledge, probably longer.
     
  23. graham w

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    I would wait for the new Viera!
    Coming out at a trade fair mid March,in the shops soon after.The new set should fix the non HD issue plus a few others.
    Should be the new benchmark (over 8 billion colours),the current one is imho
    superior at real life which is digital tv and sky than the Pioneer!
     
  24. splnter

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    Ok i dont mean to upset anyone here, But i phoned some more places that sell the xde today !!!

    And asked them . What is the best Plasma tv you have there And sell ??

    He said the xde !!!!! I then said , But isnt the Panasonic As good as the xde, He said ....... No way mate..

    We have set them both up togeather in the shop, And set them both up with the same Dvd players And put Good leads on them both and the The pioneer was a better picture by far !!! ....

    Thats not me saying that he did !! so dont give me stick !!!!!!! :lease:

    Then i asked him if they price match He said yes, when i told him the price he said there is no way i can sell it for that as we pay more then that to get it in. lol.. Ive found it for £2,799.00 And they want £3,500 for it With part x my old tv, takes it down to £3,300...
     
  25. gizlaroc

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    No offence but if they are charging £3500 for it and wont drop I would be looking at another dealer, even my local tv shop had it for £2799 reduced from the RRP of £2999.99.

    And do you think a phone call is the best way to decide which image you prefer on a £3k tv?
     
  26. johnnycab

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    I think this has to be the best piece of advice in this thread. I have never been the one to rely on just the reviews, and always try out/test the product.

    Only time will tell, if I have made an(other) expensive mistake...
     
  27. gizlaroc

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    No one would be dissapointed with a Pioneer as their first plasma, if you have had nothing to compare it to then it will be awesome, all I am saying is that the Panasonic Panels (not talking Vieras) are a better screen, but then so is the MXE1. But the XDE is a compromise.
     
  28. rooster-x

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    Well I too would like a Pioneer because it has the best picture when connected by HDMI (as I have DEMO'd) but I don't have a HDMI DVD player and to get one plus the cable adds an extra £200 to my budget plus the Pioneer 435 xde is £2790 + wall bracket.

    The low res Panny TH-42PW7B is £1330 + wall bracket with a scart and seeing as most of my watching is off a Humax PVR with maybe one or two DVD's a week I guess my head says panny even though my heart wants Pioneer, but I know the Humax is going to look rubbish on the Pioneer, plus i save myself £1660 for somthing I will only get to use 10 hours a week if I'm lucky (less come summer).

    So that's my decision, anyone want to persuade me otherwise? :)

    Cya Rooster
     
  29. splnter

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    Hi, There !!!

    I have seen both the Viera and the fde at the same time side by side !!!

    I do like the pany no dout about it , its a nice tv,

    But it has no hi def Yet !!!

    I am going to look at xde in the morning in A good av shop that will have it set up on hi, def ,

    I will let you know tomorrow how i feel about it then.

    One thing is i love the way the pioneer looks.
     
  30. MAW

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    I can tell you, at £3500 selling price the XDE would be the best plasma out there for me too. It'd bring my retirement date a lot closer.
     

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