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I don't get it..New Freesat

Discussion in 'Satellite TV, Sky TV & FreeSat' started by Enquirer, Sep 7, 2005.

  1. Enquirer

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    So the beeb and itv are going to launch a New freesat service so from what i've read this freesat will have less channels than Freeview!
    so you'll get all the beeb channels and all the ITV channels ,well you will with freeview unless you live in a poor coverage area.


    maybe its a way of getting ready for High def from the beeb and itv and maybe its a way of getting better bargaining with sky but as i'm in a good freeview coverage area i just dont see the point.

    I would be happier and interested if it was High def from the start. instead of just another stop gap.
     
  2. Jules1975

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    I saw this but there wasn't much info? Would you need a completely new dish and STB to your Sky ones to get this?
     
  3. DaveP

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    If you've got sky why would you need it?
     
  4. Jules1975

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    Just curious really.
     
  5. Nick_UK

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    Sounds like ITV are either going to remove the scrambling requirement, or the BBC are going to add one. You will buy a box (with a viewing card maybe) like you do now with Freeview. According to what I heard on the radio today, the channel line-up will be similar to Freeview. It's aimed at areas where Freeview is either poor or non-existant.
     
  6. johndon

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  7. Jules1975

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    Hmm, so ITV won't be encrypting it's transmissions on Sky? Good news for my DIY second room setup from the quad LNB that came with Sky +.

    I wonder how much the Beeb/ITV set up would cost in comparison to the current sky freesat package?
     
  8. johndon

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    I read it that the transmissions on the new system would be unencrypted but the one from Sky would still be encrypted.

    John
     
  9. Jules1975

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    I read it as the opposite :D
     
  10. Enquirer

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    In the long run, ITV will be in a better position to negotiate its carriage deal with satellite broadcaster BSkyB. ITV currently pays Sky £17m a year to encrypt its signals and have it on the digiboxes EPG , but is looking for a better deal similar to the BBC's £4m a year for the EPG and regionalisation.

    From what i understand (so i maybe wrong)the dish will point to the same point and new boxes will have the same EPG as DTT sets.

    I believe it maybe difficult to go High def freeview and quite easy to go High def Freesat.although i have no facts to back this statement up :D
     
  11. StooMonster

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    That's the point, Freeview doesn't cover entire UK.

    BSkyB already offer FreeSat, but through their platform; i.e. only works on their approved set-top-box, the EPG is full of Sky subscription channels and things you can not see unless you pay them, etc.

    BBC+ITV offering FreeSat would mean their own (non-Sky) STB, different software could be completely different GUI even, EPG that only lists the free channels, could also use different Interactive Services too, channel numbers and interface could be just like Freeview. However, it would receive the same BBC and ITV signals from satellite that Sky's digiboxes do.

    Simplier to use, and easy to install would be my guess.

    StooMonster
     
  12. Starburst

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    Interesting to see how long it takes for the BBC and ITV to come up with a framework for the new platform and how the EPG will shape up considering they have to get manufacturer support for what is a much smaller market than DTT and of course won't have Ch4 or Five for a few years (if ever).

    Still it will put a little pressure on SKY in the form of EPG pricing but they can tweak that easily at minimal impact to their bottom line and at the end of the day NO broadcaster can afford to remove themselves from the SKY EPG and rely on this new system.
     
  13. mike7

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    I guess this is going to be a cheaper option for both broadcasters than building lots of 'fill in' transmitters to cater for those areas who currently cannot get Freeview or DAB radio. My own county has very limited coverage. Something has to be done to offer people a signal as the analogue signal is switched off. It gives the BBC and ITV continued independance as to how their broadcasts are transmitted. If people choose to receive it via Sky or Cable then they will still be able to do so.

    Perhaps we can look at the positives. Hope that its not heavily compressed or otherwise messed about with as some Sky transmitted channels are. Can we expect all the radio channels to be high spec, not compressed mono ?

    As for costs I saw that the Lidl supermarket chain were selling a Digital satellite system (non-Sky) last week for well under £100. We used to pay this sort of price for freeview boxes. This would be a realistic price for many people.

    Downside seems to be no mention of any HD service. One BBC channel would have been nice.
     
  14. Starburst

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    The BBC and ITV have total control over their bitrates now so considering this signals picked up by a FTA STB will be exactly the same as those picked up by a SKY digibox nothing will change in that regard.
    However there may certainly be premium STB's with superior DACS and more features which for the non SKY subscriber may be tempting but for Joe Public it isn't that big a deal, certainly not in the same league as Freeview.

    One of the benefits of Freeview is it's plug and play nature but with "Freesat" you need a dish and the majority of people that is not a DIY job so factor in an install fee and it ain't that cheap.
     
  15. meansizzler

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    Not nessecariy, cheap and easier to install a dish than an aerial...
     
  16. Starburst

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    Well I would question that especially from the perspective of someone who has never done either before:)

    However as I said the vast majority of households (who will not have a dish already) will not be attempting to install a dish or for that matter a rooftop aerial themselves.
    I would expect the high street box movers to offer bundled install deals which again would make Freeview far more attractive to the average punter.
     
  17. SeanT

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    A dish is MUCH easier to install than a rooftop aerial from a DIY point of view - it's simply a lot safer to fit, and easier to ensure it doesn't end up in the next door neighbours greenhouse when the wind gets up - same can't be said for a monolithic freeview poor signal area antenna (which has the distinct disadvantage of making ones house look like it has a dalek sat on the roof...)

    Wouldn't it be interesting if they started building twin tuner freesat boxes which allowed you to receive all free to air channels with Sky+ type features - might give Sky the kick up the arse it needs to stop making us pay extra (or have more than one premium channel) for Sky+ - eg. if they said just one premium channel to make it free would be a start!!!
     
  18. StooMonster

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    Also provides BBC+ITV the opportunity to offer Sky+ type boxes too; once the monopoly of STBs is broken all sorts of interesting possibilites come to life.

    IMO I can see government money going into solving "the granny problem", and BBC+ITV would be primed to pick up tax payers money to see that everyone still have a television picture when analogue finally gets switched off; and Freesat enables them to cover areas that Freeview does not.

    As to aerials and dishes ... living in a part of the country that is disappearing under a sea of "new build estates", I can tell you that many of them do not allow external roof top aerials in the house deeds, but do allow satellite dishes.

    StooMonster
     
  19. stanleyntl

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    If the Beeb do enter discussions with OEMs perhaps we can expect svideo and component output on standard boxes (not just PVRs!). Here's hoping for vanilla DVI (non HDCP)! :clap:

    It would be better if BBC/ITV rented different transponder space, only then can we expect higher bit rates, to bump up picture quality. ;)
     
  20. Enquirer

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    one thing that really works with SKY is the unified remote one remote for all boxes or two if you count sky plus the Freesat system beeb/itv could learn from this.
     
  21. kid rock

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    Does anyone think that the bbc and itv will move away from the astra satellite group to an alternative in the light of both the freesat initiative and forthcoming hdtv. I think this has to happen as the transponders on the astra sats must surely only be able to cope with a limited number of hdtv and stv broadcasts -particularly in the light of sky adding ever crappier stv broadcasting to the already heaving epg.

    Thoughts????

    Kid Rock
     
  22. MartinImber

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    Doesn't stop anyone around me - no external aerial clause yet EVERYONE has one
     
  23. MartinImber

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    I'd rather let manufacturers decide this, I'm sure big companies like Sony and Panasonic know better!
     
  24. cerebros

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    Does anyone know what video format they're planning on using?

    While I doubt it will happen seeing as they're probably trying to do it on the cheap, I hope they'll use a newer compression than MPEG2, require either a HDMI or DVI-HDCP output in addition to RGB SCARTS and make the audio Dolby Digital as standard, with all the digiboxes specced to downmix to stereo output if the box isn't hooked up to an AV amp.

    That way they'd future proof the boxes for a rollout of a possible Freesat HDTV service in a few years time, rather than people needing to buy new STB's to get HDTV.
     
  25. StooMonster

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    LOL. When I drive through/past these 'estates' in my locality, I can honestly say that I have never seen an external aerial but have seen Sky dishes on nearly every home. I do know people who live in these places though, and in many cases the developers put large aerials inside the loft.

    StooMonster
     
  26. StooMonster

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    Why would they spend money duplicating broadcasting on new satellites or streams?

    They will use existing broadcasts on Astra, it would be a waste of money to do anything else and pointless too. Future-proofing never works out, kit will be speced to achieve it's purposes which is giving (free) digital television to home who can not get Freeview (as is, not some future hi-def version).

    This new service is for mass-market and is not for Home Theatre fans; therefore it won't have HDMI or the like it'll have scart, composite and RF output.

    StooMonster
     
  27. Starburst

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    Nothing is going to change.
    The existing broadcasts will remain so that the existing 8million + digiboxes being used will continue to get the full digital services but by being FTA a basic STB (£40 upwards) will be able to access the BBC and ITV channels.
    Also the dozens of other FTA channels for shopping etc that some people moan about will be watchable but the channel listing will be user defineable which makes that almost a non issue.

    Just like Freeview it will be upto the manufacturers to decide if they opt for a baseline spec or go more upmarket but lets face it Freeview is hardly cutting edge and it's market apart from 1 or 2 exceptions has degenerated into a price point struggle.
     
  28. richjthorpe

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    But don't you think it's at least a move towards HDTV ? It's obvious that OTA signals wont be able to handle HDTV and so they will move over to Freesat for HDTV in the future.

    It would be nice if manufacturers were to at least acknowledge that a full digital feed from Sat to TV can exist (ie DVI or HDMI). It's be stupid not to. Wouldn't it cost more putting in DACs for video and audio instead of going straight through digital ?

    Richie.
     
  29. Starburst

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    The BBC have been broadcasting FTA for years, the fact that ITV have joined them means nothing, they were after all the last to even enter the Dsat platform after thinking that SKY viewers were not important.

    BBC HD via Dsat is a given regardless of what ITV are doing. STB's are already appearing on the market which are not tied to a proprietery system and they have always existed for the current mpeg2 broadcasts.

    The BBC will not ignore those people who buy into a SKY based HD platform since EPG allocation will probably the same and lets face it letting SKY do the initial marketing makes some sense and allows the BBC to enter the field with minimal risk.

    I expect you will start to see a few more FTA Dsat boxes in the high street but without CH4 and Five (who may not be FTA for another 2 years) it is a bit of a pointless exercise. Of course it's not about the viewers as such, just like Freeview the push towards a non SKY based alternative is about the future of the BBC and ITV, money basically:)

    When (not if) the BBC starts offering HD via Dsat (probably next year) then there will be HD receivers in the UK which are not SKY badged and those will certainly have HDMI and other "high end" connections and of course will be backwards compatable with the current mpeg2 based FTA Dst channels.
    However it's doubtful that manufacturers will go overboard supplying high spec mpeg2 based FTA receivers for a UK market which is very small and likely to cater for those who don't see AV gear as a big expense. Those that do are probably alrady using high end receivers with CAMs to watch their programming including SKY:)

    As for cost well every STB has to offer an analogue output for VHS/DVD recording and for the majority with standard TV's so there is no saving to be made for only having digital connections.
     

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