i broke my very expensive tv set i think..

injusticebyjustice

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Hello people,

I have done a stupid mistake and try to clean my samsung ks 7000 with a new product and then the problems started. First there were 2 thick stripes, 2 cm i guess verticaly with each alot of tiny stripes in it. I instantly knew there was fluid in it of course; I put the tv in fromt of the stove and magicaly the stripes went to normal after a while. Next morning all perfect, cristal clear perfect image. Then i have visiters and in the late evening i put tv on and then all image screwed, on the right side very dark and reddisch....Me crying. Now my question is, is this something i can fix myself and how? If someone have any knowledge from experiences...Or is this hopeless and too expensive to fix. Tv is 3 years old. Yeah, i could by a new one i guess, but if this is fixeble, i rather fix it...as long that costs are under 500 i rather fix it myself or have it fixed by technician. 10000% sure from cleaning product. Allthough it said it was aproved for tv screens...Please some advice...Thx alot in advance and sorry for my spelling. .Belgium here.
 

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If you were only cleaning the screen how on earth did you get cleaning product behind the screen ?
What is the make/name of this new cleaning product ?
Did you literally soak the TV ?
When I clean my screen and the TV I try to only use a lightly dampened micro fiber cloth with warm water.
 
Is it within a warranty if so have them to it and if they accept a claim for repair your ok if they reject get a report and price and claim on your house contents insurance policy for accidental damage.
 
No, it is not in warrenty no more.sadly.
I have insurance, yes, but i never knew this is included, stupidity.?? And i cleaned my tv for many years just fine. But i have to admit i was careless and stupid, tired of the stripes, so i tryed like window cleaning, because i found that very wrong tip from a housewive on the net. .. The product is Ajax, New formula, specialized for modern platforms, including televisions.. . And i did not soak it . I will try my insurance, thank you. Just hope someone here has a simple solution, order that from the net, replace and all is magicly fixed.. .Just hoping. Wonders do happen.
 
If you search EEVblog by David Jones on u.tube or elsewhere, he’s a great guy who posts videos of teardowns and/or repairs. He has several on flat screen ‘dumpster find’ fixes. The main point is that you get to see a big flat panel tv being taken apart and analyzed, board by board. One big takeaway is that there are flat ribbon cables between the boards mounted inside the frame and the panels; one line per row and per column; often with the screen segregated into quarters. These flat ribbon cables have an extremely fine pitch; you need a magnifier to even see it. These cables are ‘heat-bar’ soldered and not wave soldered for obvious reasons, and they are very vulnerable to - anything! I believe that they are tacked in place with sticky glue and adjusted via machine eye vision during assembly so that the heat bar pushes on the tinned ends of the plastic flex wire and the solder underneath it is wetted by heat flowing thru the flex.
I’m guessing that your cleaning agent dissolved the tacky glue and perhaps corroded some column driver interconnects.
Nothing is ruined, if that’s so, but it takes a lot of experience to even attempt to fix it.
Don’t consider me an expert on doing this; Dave Jones is one though.
Dave’s Australian, and he is a real pro. His area of expertise is across anything electronic and further, but search his blogs and watch how he does it. He includes email so you can correspond with him, but his job is not to be a repairman; he is a teacher, a content publisher and his motto is, “Don’t fix it. Take it apart.”
I hope you can at least determine the risks and rewards of ‘taking your tv apart’ by learning from Dave. Good luck!
 
Thank you very much man, this is very usefull information and i am gonne use this for sure, even if i can not understand it completely. But i sure gonne look this man up and watch his video's and learn whats there to learn. Nothing makes a man prouder then fixing his own mistakes. But i am sure its a difficult task for a novice but at least you gave me a very helpfull start and there for a big thank you... You know, yeah, i could get it fixed in a shop and maybe its a 10 dollar cheap fix and they Bill me 750 or something.. It happens more then we think. Honesty is a rare phenomon this Days. Gonne Search for him now. Have a Nice evening sir. And big thank you.
 
Glad to help. I hope you find a few of his video blogs. He has a great camera and produces superb close up detail along with explanations that are technically concise but deep.
Good luck!
 
It seems from your description and the pictures that
- your initial "fault" was a few failed columns of pixels
- and that after "cooking" the TV you have solved that problem - but
- the dimming of the right side of the image suggests to me a failed backlight, which may be caused by the "cooking".

Both (or either) of these things, I suspect, will require a new panel.

In which case, I support the idea of a domestic insurance claim - if you have accidental damage cover.
 
Thank you very much for the replies and help, i am waiting for the right tools that i ordered online, so that i can open the tv and try to analyse my problem. The videos and tip of one of the posters above persuated me to try and resolve this myself. i contacted my insurance but no can go there. And i can understand there point of vieuw, if theu had to pay for all the stupidity in the world, our monthly payments for insurance would go trough the roof. I contacted the shop where i bought this fantastic television, because that it is, but no help there./ They said it was not worth it economily to send a technician over because costs propably would overcome the benefits and advised me to by a new set, in their store i guess!! Well, waiting for the tools to arrive and watched some repair videos thanks to 'IseeDesignHer' and hoping for the best and that it isnt a new panel, cause that is something i will not do myself of course and then i dont have another optien then by myself a new overpriced set. going for OLED this time i think , but worried for burning in. Still wondering. Thx for the help anyway. Very much appreciated. And if i can solve it myself, i will proudly come brag about it of course; hahahahahaha.
 
Thank you very much for the replies and help, i am waiting for the right tools that i ordered online, so that i can open the tv and try to analyse my problem. The videos and tip of one of the posters above persuated me to try and resolve this myself. i contacted my insurance but no can go there. And i can understand there point of vieuw, if theu had to pay for all the stupidity in the world, our monthly payments for insurance would go trough the roof. I contacted the shop where i bought this fantastic television, because that it is, but no help there./ They said it was not worth it economily to send a technician over because costs propably would overcome the benefits and advised me to by a new set, in their store i guess!! Well, waiting for the tools to arrive and watched some repair videos thanks to 'IseeDesignHer' and hoping for the best and that it isnt a new panel, cause that is something i will not do myself of course and then i dont have another optien then by myself a new overpriced set. going for OLED this time i think , but worried for burning in. Still wondering. Thx for the help anyway. Very much appreciated. And if i can solve it myself, i will proudly come brag about it of course; hahahahahaha.

Thanks for your call out above.

I think you will ultimately be quite happy that you went down this road as long as you are super, super careful about flexing the panel or otherwise damaging it.

There probably will be two levels of access; 1) remove back panel (some screws are hiddden), and 2) remove inner panel.

The first gives you access to the processor board, power supply, interface board and column/row drivers.

The second panel is where you can get at the backlight LEDs.

There most likely, from your symptoms, one of two things wrong:
1. PS failure due to electrolytic capacitor failure, or
2. LED(s) burned out.

Number 2 can make number 1 look bad by overloading the PS. Usually, there are two or four separate PS outputs. You can look for the connector on the PS board (the one with toroidal inductors and/or ferrite transformers) and you should find sets of “V+” & “V-“ in pairs. It might use some slightly different nomenclature, but they will be in pairs, and they will indicate positive and negative polarities.

#1.
Since you can reach this by just taking off the back mostly plastic panel, there are two things to do immediately -
A). Carefully inspect the top of all the aluminum electrolytic cylinders and see if their tops are deformed and/or leaking stuff. Take pictures of all of them so you can be sure of polarity if you find any that you have to replace. Even if you only find one, you are best off ordering 105°C rated quality capacitor replacements from Rubicon or Toshiba. Never go lower in voltage. I would recommend replacing all of them if you find one that’s gone; you’ll save yourself having to do it again within a year or so.
B). Use a DVM and carefully probe the DC voltages on each pair of the labeled outputs printed on the PCB near the flex connectors that go from the PS unit to the LEDs, a cable which should disappear through a hole in the inner, metal back panel in order to reach the LEDs. DO THIS VERY CAREFULLY AS THE MAINS CAN KILL YOU! Wear gloves and safety glasses. You might find that you cannot turn the TV on with the outer back panel off, in which case you have to find a mechanical interlock switch somewhere that detects if the back panel is in place and temporarily close that microswitch with electrical tape. The LED backlights are all wired in series for each row in order to increase voltage and reduce current. Typically, each LED backlight cluster might have 4 LEDs (or more) in series, which would mean ~ 3.7 vdc per LED times 4 equals 12.8 vdc. If there are 8 LED clusters all in a row (you may have 4 rows altogether), the total string voltage should be about about 120 vdc. If there are more LEDs in each cluster, like 6, for example, then the string voltage total might be ~ 180 vdc. Conversely, if you have fewer LEDs per row, then it might be lower. The voltages stated above are for LEDs without series dropping resistors. Usually, such resistors are included for ballast purposes inside of the LED cluster itself, balancing the illumination out of each diode. The most likely voltage that you should find would be 125 vdc =/- 25 vdc. If all of the individual pairs of adjacent PS+/PS- output pins are showing a voltage in this range, then you will have an open LED. If one (or more) show a much lower voltage, then you have a shorted LED (most common). If the voltages are way, way off, like way too low, the PS itself probably blew a fuse or has suffered a component failure. If any of the caps were leaking, you should stop there until you get replacement caps and carefully replace them. A PS with open caps will exhibit instability in too many ways to predict, so it is just not worth troubleshooting until you replace them. Electrolytic caps of INFERIOR quality is a sad but true reality of cheap consumer electronics. If the brand name on the caps is not easily recognizable, or looks like a made up name, the caps are crap! Remove them all & replace with caps as suggested above.

#2. If the PS voltages check out, then you know it is the LEDs. However, if you have any seemingly wrong voltages, before you go through the agony of detaching the inner, METAL backpanel, unplug the ribbon cable from the PS board (with power off) and recheck the voltages. This will prove whether it is the PS or the LEDs. You don’t want to take of the inner panel just for the fun of it. If you determine that you must, then, once you can directly see the individual LED clusters (depending on TV size, it could be an array that varies from 4x2 up to 16x12, but it is likely to be 8x4 or 8x6). As soon as you turn the TV on, it will immediately be obvious which LED clusters are working and which ones are not working. If an entire row is out, there may be only ONE that failed, like in Christmas light strings. If you can get your DVM to touch the two leads going into each LED cluster, you can isolate an open LED because all of the LEDs will either be close to the positive or negative rail, EXCEPT for the open one. If you have shorted LED clusters, then many or most of the other LEDs in that row will show be lighting up, maybe too brightly, and the one that is dark will be shorted. Once you isolate the culprit, do a careful internet search for TV component supply houses and identify exactly the LED lamps that your set uses. Replacing one or more of them is so much cheaper than the other options that you have, it just makes a lot of sense to do that.

#1PLUS #2.
You could very well have BOTH a PS and an LED failure, since a shorted LED will put the PS into a current regulating mode instead of a voltage regulating mode. If the PS is REALLY cheap, it will just overload it or over temp it, and THAT alone can dry out and bubble those electrolytic caps.
Still, replacing one or two LED clusters ands replacing all of the electrolytic cans should run you no more than 20% of the cost of a replacement.

The top of each electrolytic should have a slight dimple in it in the form of an “X” that goes edge to edge. At the center of the cross, the strength is the weakest, and that’s where junk would first escape. But, even a bulging top surface indicates that the cap is bad, so, if they don’t look picture perfect, REPLACE THEM. Once you have removed them, you can prove to yourself that they were bad with a capacitance meter that also reads out ESR - Equivalent Series Resistance. A good cap should be a fraction of 1 Ohm, while a bad cap might be many times higher or even completely open. If you don’t have easy access to such a cap/ESR meter (your DVM might have that feature, or it might not), then its probably not worth trying to obtain one. The ESR test is confirmation. You can diagnose without doing it; almost always.

But, be very careful of the way connectors and ribbon cables that go from around the edges of the mother board down inside to the TV panel itself. In your case, some of them may be corroded from the harsh cleaning fluid that leaked down into the bottom ones. You must absolutely repair ANY signs of corrosion. If you find any, do a lot of research on the correct way to clean that corrosion because using the wrong approach could destroy your TV for good by melting one of your column or row driver ribbon cables.

While you are at it, check all the boards for any visible corrosion and see if you can identify if stuff that shouldn’t be on the otherwise pristine boards came from outside, or came from a nearby component.

By the time you have done this (being ever so careful to not put ANY pressure on the glass panel), you may have people coming to you to fix their TVs.

I really like that you are going at this solo. It says a lot.

Good luck!
 
Dear Mr. iSeeDesignHer, you are such a big help here to me, i can not thank you enough. Your very detailed instructions and patients with me is remarkable. I wonder what your profession in life is and where your nick is coming from. Because very long ago before i was injured, i designed stuff myselff on my pc as a hobbyist with programs like 3d Maya and 3d max. But i didnt have the talents, and in those jobs you need alot of passion, wich i had, but more so talents and that was not my cup of thea i guess.. But oh my God, what did i put hours and years in learning myself those 2 wonderful programs, with the sole purpose of creating magic. And yes, i did create some nice stuff, sadly i dont have anuthing anymore from that past. I created a whole level for a game once, modeled a whole real estate project that was here in town. and made a decent lot of animations. For children, pure as a hobby. I was not good enough to get employment somewhere sadly, was more a hobby, passion of mine. But now my hands and arms hurt like hell if i spend to much time on my pc, trough a neck injury, that happened to me while working have work in a factory for a whole lot of years. Soo...unumployed, chronic pain patient, just trying to survive with a whole less of money than i used to have. but it learned me a few good lessons and i turned my life for the good i must say. Didnt try my best all my live, but last 5 years were a complete transformation for the better of me. So all by all, i must be thankfull for the last years, very much.
Then for your explanation, sir, you helped me alot here. Just the time alone to write this for me was so nice, and then the details and the super super good explanations are gonne help me so good. I allreadyy borrowed a dvm meter from a very friendly neighbour, so when the tools arrive, i am gonne start and use your explanation alot i guess. One thing you said scared me..!!!!! What can kille me? mains ??? What are those things, yeah, my english is rusty and for electrical explenation i am very much in the drak here. You explain everything so detailed and i understand every thing so far i think, just "mains"i dont get. ....i must be honest, very new territority here for me on al fronts, nut with the help from you, youtube and a veru friendly kind neighbour i am confident, we get this fixed!!!!!!!! For now iam gonne leave you, cause , still no tools, but in a few days, when i can start, i probeply will update this post, and certainly if i am stuck. but hey;;;with this guide, ....i am golden. Again, thanks alot man, very much appreciated. And i hope you have a few nice days ahaed of you. You deserve it hard. Greetings.
 
You are most welcome, sir. Somehow your honesty and discouragement came through as being worthy of as much help as possible. I am only disappointed that you have not (yet) had more help from the forum.

Some have, but many people are here instead to show off or brag (for example, “I paid £4,500 for MY TV” that I read in another post. Bloody good for you, mate, but how much did you spend on your kids?).

You were as sincere as they come, so it is my honor to try to be of assistance.

First, the ‘MAINS’ refer to the house electrical power and the cord bringing it into the TV set. In the US we have a more wimpy 115 V AC @ 60 Hz; in GB it is 240 V AC @ 50 Hz. Either can kill you, but GB electrical power will send TWICE the current though you (if you touch it) and at TWICE the voltage, and that means FOUR TIMES THE POWER!!!

When your take the back panel off, you must either disconnect the mains power cord or be incredibly careful if you need to power up your set in order to measure voltages and determine what is wrong. It only takes ONE mistake.....

You might very well consider having a friend over when you do the ‘power on’ trouble shooting, both as a safety check and as an emergency contact to authorities if you get injured.

Now that I’ve warned you, it is just a matter of being prepared - it is NOT like operating on yourself.

People power up their TVs with the back panel removed all the time. Just look at all the videos posted. I’ve worked around electricity from a very young age and I didn’t want to suggest a way to repair your TV without also being extremely clear about the hazards involved!

It is snowing here today on the island that I live on. Bitter, brutal winter due to a dropping down of the polar vortex winds. Yet, it is warming to receive your best wishes.

As to my profession, I am now semi-retired but working on my next invention. My career has been as an ‘Integrated Circuit’ designer (IC designer), and that explains the origin of my screen name but also hints at my respect for the wonder of the female.

Cheers.
 
Here is a link to an LCD repair that had bad electrolytic capacitors:

This should help once you’re ready to start.
Best of luck!
 
Hello there and thank you again so much. This will help me too. Now i understand what you mean with "mains". That is such a relief, understanding this now. Now i am not scared anymore because i understand that aspect very well. i worked around pc a decent lot and did lot of things while it was connected to the net, i know what to touch and where to be carefull. So, that problem is safe with me. and as always, i do mind safety alot and am super carefull doing those things. i am not going to die, hahahahah!!!!! Hopefully! No, that is a joke. I looked your profile up and search your living area because i was curious about you, and read a lot of your posts here, and you know your stuff friend!!!!! And are indeed an enthousiastic . And that i like alot. I like to read your posts because the things you talk about, do concern me too. You are far more experienced then me of course and your technical knowledge is something i do not posses. But tv and the technology and 4k and Blu ray and all that comes with that is also a passion of mine, like a lot of men i think. Yep, It is the sad story of this world i think. Most people are far more concerned about bragging and showing of, then they are concerned about the true things in life, and that is very disppointing. I see it every day in my life and it is so sad. But its not only the bragging, alot of people just have lost their way in life i guess. Its a sad thing to notice about society today. But then again, we all have to be who we want to be i guess and there is as much good as there is bad i hope. i used to think there was more bad then good, but i am trying to see the possitivity too these days, allthough you have to search very hard for the "good" people in my honest opinion.
Honesty is my main passion, without it, who are we? And noboddy can beat honesty, never! So i try to live by it, always. For all my life. Its a rare phenomenon these days, i know.
You live nice ISeeDesignYou , very very nice, beautifull nature there. I think you are a very content lucky man. Its a dream for many people to live like that with so much nature around you, a female friend of mine, would get jalouss as hell, if she saw where you live!!!! Enjoy it man, you deserve it!!!!!
Still dont have the tools and its getting on my nerve; 2 weeks max they said, but i hoped sooner. Not happening i guess; so i have to be patient and i miss my tv so much. I now have to watch on an old samsung from 10 years ago, that a neighbour lend me, so yeah, there are good people around. I love 4k and even the upscaling of normal content i find amazing on my tv, but what i love the most about that technology are those beautifull colours. if people ask me, whats so good about 4k tv, i always tell them, the colours blew me away, every second i am watching content, but i calibrated my tv by a proffesional, and that was something i can advise. such an amazing improvement that was . Now i will always do that in the future. Dear friend, i hope you have a great day today, that it is not too cold, and enjoy your toys. Yeah, females are God's wonders my friend....they come in all flavours and i like them all!!!!! God's best miracle!!!! Greetings and we talk later! And thanks!
 
Hey, so update. Still alive!!! Recieved tools. i checked for any bad electrolytic capacitors but they were all in excelent condition. Then I checked voltages on the LED flexconnector thing... I am not experienced but i try to explain. That flex connector has 12 plus 12 small cables going trough the backpanel into the LED. here is the thing...i measured....This is what i get?.96- 60-96-60-96-60.....about those figures. Now i dont know what that mean. I thnk everything is ok on the powerboard. I really dont see any deformations anywhere and i thoroughly inspected every board. ...So i guess its the connectors that are hidden on the lower side of the screen.Those that connects the screen with the actual electronica. i saw this in a video. Sometimes those things are damaged. Or its the LED themself that need replacement; eitherway i have to go trough the deeper part of the screen and that indeed is a pain. But i will go slowly and document every step and be super carefull. I watched a video from someone who did the exact same thing on a almost same tv...so...i will be ok...and then i will see what it is..I think some led broken maybe. Because 1/5 of my screen gives perfect image. I will see, but it can take a few days to get to the innerpart. I will update if i am there. hopefully it is just Led replacement, that i can do. I saw that and that looked easy!!! greetings and thanks alot. Helped me so far to get here .
 
Really good work! This is so much better news to hear than reading a report on how much money you got ripped off by a store, a tech repairman (repairwoman) or by the MFGR!

You are closing in on this. Just be slow and methodical. When you get the inner panel removed, could you take a picture of the LED arrays? That would be helpful.

In the meantime, this is what I think you have so far.

1). Each LED array is (most likely) a string of 32 LEDs in series spanning the entire TV’s width.
These can be purchased for about $32US each at places like
“www dot ccflwharehouse dot com”. Replace “space dot space” with “.” To get the URL.
2). Each LED in the string should operate at 3.0 Vdc at full brightness. 32 x 3 = 96 Vdc.
3). Your TV should have six (6) rows of these LED arrays, AFAIK.
4). If your TV does use the 32 LED edge-lit strips, then all six (6) of your PS outputs
should be at 96 Vdc.
5). If instead, your TV uses 24 LED strips (I am not sure of your TV size - is it 49”, 55”?)
Then each PS output should be at 60 Vdc.
6). Unless your TV alternates between 24 LEDs per array and 32 LEDs per array, the
Measured PS voltages could indicate either an open string or a partially shorted string.
7). I could not find information on the exact backlighting used on your TV in part because
It is very hard to get that kind of detail, and in part because I don’t know your TV’s size.

Basically, I’m making guesses here.

If I assume that you have six (6) IDENTICAL rows of LED backlight arrays, and they ALL have 32 LEDs per string, then 3 of your 6 LED arrays are partially shorted, loading the PS to 60 Vdc.

If, on the other hand, I assume that you have six (6) IDENTICAL LED backlight arrays, and they ALL have only 24 LEDs, then the three arrays that have 96 Vdc measured at the PS terminals, then 3 of your LED arrays are OPEN and drawing zero current.

If I assume the unlikely case where you have ALTERNATING rows of 32 LED strings and 24 LED strings, then the PS voltages could be EXACTLY right and I don’t know what is wrong.

The most likely failure mode in these LED strings is failing open, not shorted, so I’m going to guess that 3 of your 6 strings are open and need to be replaced. IF that is the case, make sure that they are 24 LED strings and get the exact part number from the array after removing the 3 bad ones.

The way that the LED arrays are fed by the power supply (PS) is with a constant current output, NOT a constant voltage output. This makes the illumination across all the LEDs match better because light output closely tracks LED current.

If a string ‘opens up’ and no light is emitted, the PS goes into failsafe mode that limits its maximum voltage to some value. This COULD explain why 3 of your PS outputs are at 60 Vdc and the other 3 are at 96 Vdc, but it is NOT PROOF!

You will instantly know which strings are not being illuminated once you remove the inner panel.

Before you do that, you might try unplugging all of the PS connectors to the LEDs (while the TV is off) and turn it back on and see if ALL SIX (6) PS outputs jump to 96 Vdc.

If that happens, then you can be sure that the 3 LED strips that had 96 Vdc across them are open and need to be replaced.

I’m sorry to give so much detail. It will all make sense once you get the inner panel off, which you have to do in any event in order to replace the LED strips (arrays).

I am just trying to take some of the mystery out of it by making my own guesses. If I had the full specs on your TV, it wouldn’t be a matter of guessing, but I don’t. I did go to Samsung owner’s home website and I did download the e-manual for the KU7000 series of TVs, but, 105 pages later, I didn’t find a scrap of info about the backlighting.

Maybe someone who actually repairs TVs for a living could chime in and give EXACT descriptions; I’m just guessing, but I am hoping that this makes some sense.

It is really very impressive that you have already gotten this far. You will fix your own TV. And, it won’t costs you €500. It will cost you (I’m guessing again) about US $160 for 3 LED strips plus whatever you paid for the tools.

I am including a picture of a typical LED strip that is used in EDGE-DRIVEN UHD TVs. The FALD TVs (Full Array Light Dimming) ultra high end TVs use very different LED arrays to get ‘LOCAL DIMMING’ on a sub-divided basis. And, of course, the OLED TVs (not Samsung yet, if ever) are self illuminating, so they inherently have the capability of pixel-level local dimming.

Best of luck, and be quite proud of your steadfastness and courage. Just remain very careful - you are almost at the end of a successful journey.

Best regards.

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Hello mr, ISeeDesignHer, thank you again for the so much appreciated help. Without you i would be lost and allready bought a new tv i think. But it is thanks to your help and support i am brave enough to do this myself.
Now update, i did what you asked me to do, i should have done this from the first time but i made the mistake of that was enough information. Allthough you were very detailed the first time. It is because this is new for me and i am a bit scared for touching something wrong with the dvm meter and destroying something. But because you asked again and told me it is very important, i tryed with the connector out of the ps board. And rararararar......now i have 94-00-94-00-94--00.
Now i am a bit lost, again.Sorry. What does this mean? Is my ps board faulthy of is this a normal reading because some LEd are broken? I dont know anymore.
But i can not continue anymore today, so i will wait for your wel appreciated guidance.
I still think its the Led somehow but this reading made me confused.
So i am gonne wait for now untioll i hear from you. In the meantime i gonne studdy that video on reaching the inner panel. And read a bit. As allways, thank you so much. The reason i am not moving forward is because its a hassle to remove and with maybe the PS board damaged, totaly waste of time. ....take your time, hope you have a nice sunday! And enjoy. Greetings.
and yeah, this is my mistake, i shoud have done it from the first time going on. Stupid.
And yeah, finding detailed info on any samsung products is a pain in the ass. My tv is 60 inch by the way. Thanks again!!!! So much!!!!
 
First, the ‘MAINS’ refer to the house electrical power and the cord bringing it into the TV set. In the US we have a more wimpy 115 V AC @ 60 Hz; in GB it is 240 V AC @ 50 Hz. Either can kill you, but GB electrical power will send TWICE the current though you (if you touch it) and at TWICE the voltage, and that means FOUR TIMES THE POWER!!

Just to clarify you are right both can kill, however in the UK we consume the same power as the US for a given device, otherwise, all our equipment would be less efficient. o_O

We have lower rated fuses and RCDs as a result because we use less current. Less current also means less heat. (Current kills after all)

Take for example the wall hand dryer that you get in toilets\restrooms which often have the energy rating label on them.

https://www.worlddryer.com/getattac...c-b103-c27ff206329c/92_MT043_A_spec_sheet.pdf

In the US they are rated at 115V @ 20Amps = 2,300W

In the UK, Europe they are rated at 230V @ 10Amps = 2,300W
 
Hello mr, ISeeDesignHer, thank you again for the so much appreciated help. Without you i would be lost and allready bought a new tv i think. But it is thanks to your help and support i am brave enough to do this myself.
Now update, i did what you asked me to do, i should have done this from the first time but i made the mistake of that was enough information. Allthough you were very detailed the first time. It is because this is new for me and i am a bit scared for touching something wrong with the dvm meter and destroying something. But because you asked again and told me it is very important, i tryed with the connector out of the ps board. And rararararar......now i have 94-00-94-00-94--00.
Now i am a bit lost, again.Sorry. What does this mean? Is my ps board faulthy of is this a normal reading because some LEd are broken? I dont know anymore.
But i can not continue anymore today, so i will wait for your wel appreciated guidance.
I still think its the Led somehow but this reading made me confused.
So i am gonne wait for now untioll i hear from you. In the meantime i gonne studdy that video on reaching the inner panel. And read a bit. As allways, thank you so much. The reason i am not moving forward is because its a hassle to remove and with maybe the PS board damaged, totaly waste of time. ....take your time, hope you have a nice sunday! And enjoy. Greetings.
and yeah, this is my mistake, i shoud have done it from the first time going on. Stupid.
And yeah, finding detailed info on any samsung products is a pain in the ass. My tv is 60 inch by the way. Thanks again!!!! So much!!!!


Thank you. Justice will be served, for you. Be patient.

It would help if you could take a picture of your power supply board with your best camera and post it here. I could then use that to help you debug the situation. Please include the entire PS board and, especially, the connectors, if you please.

Well, first thing to note is that your judgment and instincts are in place and working. It was smart to halt your work when faced with uncertainty. It was even smarter to put off removing the inner panel BECAUSE you began to suspect the power supply.

This is proper analytical thinking.

Until I see your PS board posted, I am flying in the dark. However, I will still try to extract what I can and also speculate beyond that.

First, it is the same 3 sets of LED PS output pairs that were 96 Vdc and are now 94 Vdc, right? {#1, #3, #5}?

Also, it is the same ‘other’ three pairs of LED PS outputs that were 60 Vdc and are now 0 Vdc, right? {#2, #4, #6}?

And, now that I know that your TV is 60”, I suspect that you actually have 12 horizontal rows of the edge-lit LED arrays, not 6, a number that might work for a 40” but not a 60”.

In an earlier post, you mentioned that there were, “12 plus 12 small cables going through the back panel to the LEDs.”

This is totally consistent with your TV having either 12 or 24 horizontal rows of LED backlighting.

A). Do you mean that there are 24 cables altogether?

B). Or, do you mean that there are 12 cables EACH having wire PAIRS?

If it is A, then you have a total of 24 LED arrays. How they are arranged is just a guess on my part; it could be 24 horizontal rows.

That would make a lot of sense, actually, because the entire backlight matrix would have 32 LEDs horizontally and 24 LEDs vertically. That perfectly matches the old 4:3 standard but the UHD aspect ratio of 16:9 of your 4K TV would space the 24 horizontal rows at 75% of the vertical spacing that would be appropriate for the old 4:3 aspect ratio.

If the answer above is B, I think that you still have the same geometry for your LED arrays (32 wide by 24 tall). It would only change how the LED arrays are paralleled.

From your posts, your PS has only 6 different outputs. This means that, if you DO have 24 LED backlight arrays, they are paralleled 4 at a time so 6 PS voltages drive 4 LED arrays EACH!

(Funny, I feel like I’m in the NASA control room on Apollo 13, getting delayed messages and trying to visualize what went wrong....)

NOW - THIS IS IMPORTANT.

Before starting in next, try unplugging ALL the flex cables, OK?

If you can carefully use the probe tips of your DVM to touch the terminals of the PS output connectors (VERY CAREFULLY), measure all 6 PS outputs.

There are 3 likely results:

1. All six read ~ 96 Vdc or even MUCH HIGHER,
2. All 6 read 0 Vdc, or
3. 3 read ~96 Vdc or higher and 3 read 0 Vdc.

Cases 1 and 2 points away from the PS and towards the LED arrays.

Case 3 points to the PS.

You see, the PS board (when the TV is turned on and NOT in a dark mode like standby or screen saver) should output its maximum possible voltage in an effort to achieve the string current it is programmed to by the TV’s backlight dimming logic. That would explain case #1, and all is good with the PS.

There is a slight chance that the PS can detect if a string is open and shut itself off, but I think that is less than 1 in a thousand chance.

Case #3 would mean that 3 of the 6 PS outputs are not working.

They could be in what’s called a fold back mode or a shut down mode. They even might be dimming on purpose because the PS (for those 3 outputs alone) was being instructed to turn those rows off. Very unlikely, but try to have the TV fed with a live video source so that the backlights are not supposed to be off.

If it is a ‘soft’ failure, like foldback or shut down or dimming command, cycling the power should restore those 3 PS outputs to match their 3 neighbors.

On the other hand, if it is a ‘hard’ failure, there has to be some damage.

This damage may be quite inexpensive to fix if it is a fuse. Bear in mind that fuses that are mounted on PCBs are almost never socketed, and they don’t look like fuses, they look like elongated resistors and have very different markings or color coding on them.

I am including a picture of typical SMD fuses at the end.

If you end up with Case #3 (above), turn off the TV, wait 5 minutes and use the Ohmmeter function on your DVM to probe across the SMD fuses. (Note: they may not be SMD fuse types but thru hole wire lead type fuses instead. In either case, you should find 6 or 12 of them).

All the fuses (once identified) should measure 0 Ohms (~ 0.2 Ohms, including lead resistance).

If any of them reads much higher or open, they have been destroyed and need to be replaced. Watch videos on how to do that; it takes some real skill, tools and materials. maybe a friend has what you need.

OK, by this point, if you have NOT found any fuses after looking very closely, your PS may NOT HAVE ANY.

Since it is meant to supply a constant current, it can’t suffer instant death (without a fuse) like a VOLTAGE regulated supply might. Even those have some form of current limiting.

All this talk about fuses may be wasted if you don’t have any, but I’m trying to save you time and money if you run into case #3 because Case #3 could be expensive, if your PS board is truly damaged.

Getting that picture of your PS board would really help me to understand your problem better. Please post one here.

As a final note, you are way past the half way point of the race. Don’t give up. You’ll make it.

Best of luck (and post a pic of your PS board).

6C935161-543B-400B-B008-FE9EB996C7E8.jpeg
 
Hello Mr ISeeDesignHer,

I made a mistake, i explain later in this mail. """"From your posts, your PS has only 6 different outputs. This means that, if you DO have 24 LED backlight arrays, they are paralleled 4 at a time so 6 PS voltages drive 4 LED arrays EACH!""""" Thats my mistake.
I Just saw your post today, mail did not send me a notification. First off all, as always, thank you!!! Secondly, i have to apoligize again, for making stupid mistakes. The fact is that i do not the importance of the wright information and that is confusing for you plus, and i am so sorry, I FORGET to mention something very important. SO SORRY. And that is this, when my tv broke down, sometimes when testing it, or trying to watch something on my pc that was connected to the tv, the tv did do strange things and i should have told this from the very start, but i was so focused at the LEd and so confused, i totaly forget that this could be something that would be also important. This happens...sometimes, not all the times. i turn my tv on, and sometimes it goes on /of...on/of.....without me touching it. then i have to disconnect it from te powercable and then i can use it again, but it doesnt do this all the time. I know, i deserve a slap to my head for not telling my NASA controler this.But this is something you should know obviously.

Then i did what you asked me, i disconnected all flex connectors. here is what happens...Now it reads..90.5-00-90.5-00-90.5-00-90.5-00-90.5-00-90.5-00. I am very sorry that i was not clearere about this; i gave you six numbers and then ...... assuming that you know the serie continued likewise. SO thats that. I have 12 wires in pairs , so totaly 24.
Then i put a live feed on, netflix; and then i got the 91.5-53-91.5-53-91.5-......... and so on and on again. that are not exact numbers, sometimes it is 53.0 ,sometimes 52.9..and so on.
Then when connecting the flex connectors again, i must have done something wrong because my tv went flashing before i put the tv on, it turned out to be a loose flex from ps board to the brain board. After reconnecting it ,that was ok.

if all powercords are out of the tv and it doenst get any power, i still have readings of that one flex connector of around 83 i thought, so, 83 -00-83-00-83....dont know if that is important but i guess it is normal..

I hope you have enough information, i included some pictures; As always, so much thanks Dear sir, without you, it would have been a hopeless case for me and a whole lot of money out of my pocket..it still could b"e the case but we try to be patients and possitive. Will see what the verdict is. Thanks man...!!!!! It takes alot of your time..;and i really appreciatet his. Hope you are blessed. Take care!!! and have a nice day.
 

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Dear Mr IseeDesignHer,

here 2 more pictures, one side looks messy but i think thats just not so nice enigneering in the factory.. Maybe. And for the rest i realy dont see any damage. Yeah, those blue things around the flexconnector to the Inner screen. One of them is a bit off, i only just saw when i took that closeby picture, bu ti dont see any leaking, i dont see any damage. It is just not totaly straight connected in the factory i think...when i carefully push on to try to make it straight, there is no manipulating about it. You just press the whole board down. So thats that.
Again, take your time my friend, if you have a big family, enjoy that, take care of them first; thats moest important. And thanks for al your help!!!! greetings.
 

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Dear Mr IseeDesignHer,

here 2 more pictures, one side looks messy but i think thats just not so nice enigneering in the factory.. Maybe. And for the rest i realy dont see any damage. Yeah, those blue things around the flexconnector to the Inner screen. One of them is a bit off, i only just saw when i took that closeby picture, bu ti dont see any leaking, i dont see any damage. It is just not totaly straight connected in the factory i think...when i carefully push on to try to make it straight, there is no manipulating about it. You just press the whole board down. So thats that.
Again, take your time my friend, if you have a big family, enjoy that, take care of them first; thats moest important. And thanks for al your help!!!! greetings.


You are doing a great job. You will succeed. BTW, the power supply board is really of excellent quality. A little old (check the date code on the label sticking out), so everything is wires-thru-holes and not SMD (Surface Mount Devices).

That is good news; it makes it much easier to repair!

I looked at all of your pictures and I didn’t see anything that looked like a failed component. Of course, there always can be failures that are invisible.

The last 2 pictures are of the ‘Flyback’ transformer. I’ll explain the chain of components a bit more at the end.

First, the discoloration around its terminals looks grungy but it is NOT the result of overheating or failure. The wire on the bobbin of the transformer are usually enameled copper wire, but, for high frequency transformers, the so-called ‘Skin Effect’ makes it more efficient to use multiturn or Litz wires.

Internally, the ends of these windings are sheathed in a fiber insulator that adds extra high voltage protection, and these short wires are multiple lead tinned or silvered conductors. This extra protection is necessary because there may be peak-to-peak voltages on the primary side of close to 1,000 Vac! The secondary is more like 200 V ac ppk; still dangerous. If you zoom in you can see the fibrous nature of the wrap applied to the transformer leads.

In a production setting, they just use heat to melt all insulating materials at the tips when they are soldered into the board. The HV sheathing is intended to go all the way to the PCB so as to avoid any possibility of arcing.

If you look very carefully, you will see that the underlying wires, colored silver by the solder, shows as being firmly wrapped around the PCB terminals that have metal pins going down thru the PCB. This discoloration is hard to avoid.

Nice eyes, though. That’s the spirit. Keep it up. I would say that the PCB definitely needs dust removal though. A spray can of nitrogen or even a shop hose will scatter those dust bunnies off to the true Easter destinations, and save you from repairing an arc or short down the road.

——— NEXT STEP ——-

I am uploading a closeup of one of your pictures (very good quality, BTW).

This picture shows both the edge connector for the ribbon cable that goes out to your LED arrays, but also an index key that explains what to expect on each pin. The connector is a 26 pin 90 degree board mounted locking connector. You have 12 LED array cables, each having a “+” and a “—“ lead, making 24 pins in total. There are two spares.

The spares are visible at one end of the connector. These are pins 1 & 2. They are not used, but they are super useful as they indicate where pins 3 & 4 are, and so on.

Now, the index table shows the mapping between the PS gizzards and the ribbon cable connector. You have 12 identical PS sections, organized 6 above and 6 below on your PS board.

Each of these 12 sections can be localized by zooming in on those big resistors {RED BLK BLK SIL BRN}. These are 2.00 Ohm resistors with a 1.0% error tolerance (1.98 to 2.02 Ohms).

Below each resistor, you will find a single rectifying diode. (BLK + SILVER), a small blue ceramic capacitor, a shared dual winding common mode filter choke (shared between CH! & CH2, for example) and, finally, a big square encased large capacitor (that is probably a multilayer polyester capacitor). This capacitor is probably 1 uF, 150 Vdc. It may be anywhere from 0.22 uF to 4.7 uF, but I’m guessing 1.0 uF.

If you look to the top left corner of these 12 repeated PS sections, you will see the secondaries of the flyback transformer. There are 3 heavier windings (that go to lower voltage, higher current additional supplies) are to the left, and then there are two windings at the bottom right of the transformer.

These two leads feed ground (GND) on one side, and the other side is connected to every single one of the 12 2.00 Ohm power resistors!

Resistor Color Code Calculator and Chart (4-band, 5-band or 6-band)

The flyback stores energy during one side or polarity when it is fed from the rectified mains voltage, and, on the other phase, its stored energy will come out on its secondaries. In your case, the direction of the diodes, and the positive polarity of the output voltages, indicate that this common connection (all the 2.00 Ohm ‘current sharing’ ballast resistors) goes POSITIVE during flyback.

The diodes catch this positive voltage (which is equal for all 12 separate supplies) and the spikey pulse is first filtered thru the chokes which supply inductance and finally by the big blue capacitor. Together, they make a LPF (Low Pass Filter), and that eliminates the high switching frequencies of the flyback regulator, keeping squirrels and gremlins out of the TV picture and backlighting.

SO, WHAT TO DO NEXT?

Download a copy of the zoomed in section of the picture you took that I am including here, and please print it out. Then, meticulously go to each pin and measure the voltages for all 24 pins, which are labeled PIN numbers 3 throu 26 as per the index table.

Half of the pins SHOULD read zero voltage. The alternating pins (with a “+” label on the index) should all read about the same voltage. All 12 (TWELVE) of them.

Make a table like this:

Pin 3. 95.7 Vdc
Pin 4. 95.7 Vdc
Pin 5. 0.0 Vdc
Pin 6. 0.0 Vdc
Pin 7. 95.5 Vdc
Pin 8. 95.5 Vdc
Etc., etc.

Pins #3 thru #26. Every one of them.

This will tell you precisely the health of your PS board.

If you do it with the cable unplugged, 12 of them should read the (roughly) same high voltage. If they do NOT all 12 read the same, then there is something wrong with the PS board.

Now, if you turn the TV off and plug the connector back in, knowing which pins are the ‘HOT’ leads means you only have to make 12 measurements.

Because of the nature of the 12 identically sectioned flyback (think of a flyback as a spring sitting underneath some flat surface but not touching it. If you compress it completely, and let go, it would expand to ~ twice the length, pushing up on the panel above it. If those panels have inertia, they will all rise together to about the same height).

If you get readings that are SLIGHTLY different when the LED arrays are plugged in and the TV is on, these differences will tell you pretty much everything that you need to know about the health of your LED arrays.

How?

Here’s how:

For a moment, ignore the fact that the flyback PS is pulsing - think of it as like a battery.

I am going to assume that your flyback PS is putting out a total of 96 Watts under normal to bright viewing conditions. You have 12 LED array cables, which means an average of 96/12 = 8 Watts each. 8 Watts at 96 Vdc = 1/12 of an ampere, or 0.083 A.

AVERAGE.

Now, since the flyback is only supplying a positive pulse part of the time (25% to 60% worst case, but lets assume 33%), then, because the PULSE of current is only there 1/3 of the time, the current that has to flow during that pulse is 3 times the average.

0.083A x 3 = 0.250A, or 250 mA.

250 mA thru the 2.00 Ohm resistors will drop 0.500 V during that positive pulse. The diode will drop another ~0.7 V (but it doesn’t behave like a resistor -its equivalent series resistance to INCREMENTAL changes in current is a minimum of 0.100 Ohms @ 0.25 A, plus a little ESR so maybe 0.2 Ohms), and then there is the choke, which (guessing) may be 1.8 Ohms.

2.00 + 0.200 + 1.800 Ohms = 4.00 Ohms.

4 Ohms x 0.25 A = 1.0 Volts.

This voltage drop is called the ballast voltage. This allows mismatches in the total series voltage of each LED array to differ by up to ± 0.25 Vdc, maybe more.

So, if EVERY LED arrays was working, the 12 ‘HOT’ voltages should all match to within 1/4 of a Volt, or ± 0.250 Vdc. (The LED array does see a DC voltage because of the LC filter described above. This is what you are measuring with the DVM.

OK, lets assume exactly HALF of your LED arrays are open, and not working.

Now your (assumed) 96 Watts is divided among only 6 LED arrays, so their average, and peak, currents DOUBLE. So does the ballast voltage. It now doubles to 2.0 Vdc.

In an ideal world, the open LED strings would measure 2.0 Vdc HIGHER than the working ones, quickly identifying who is coming down to breakfast, and who is never coming down for breakfast again.

The world is not ideal. There will be ringing artifacts on the flyback windings that will spike up the open outputs much more than by 2 Volts. You could have anywhere from the calculated 2.0 Vdc difference to as much as 30 to 50 Vdc difference.

That will depend on the actual waveforms of the PS and how well its so-called ‘snubber’ circuits are taming the beast. You could have a very narrow overshoot pulse that gets ironed out on the loaded outputs but flies straight thru the unloaded ones.

I wouldn’t leave your TV on for a long time when any of its panels are bad because the good panels (LED arrays) are getting much more current and power than they normally would.

To summarize, please make a table with these 24 pin voltages, both unplugged and plugged in.

Post those results and we can determine the health of both your PS board and your LED arrays.

Please look at the picture below to see the pin index table printed on the PCB.

Best of luck!


16CF3EAC-FF3A-4614-A014-6B51758D385A.jpeg
 
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Dear Mr ISeeDesignher, i did measure those voltages, but i am gonne pause for today and do a next measurements just to be sure tomorrow. One day in the week i cook for a woman who is not so handy in the kitchen and that is today, that is my trying to do a good deed once a week. Karma, you know. So i have to clean house, you know woman :). And i am gonne try to catch some sun too, after a long dark winter. And i just want to be absolutely sure that those numbers are totaly correct when sending them to you.....Maybe i can try in the evening , but i guess it will be tomorrow if she stays long. You are most welcome like always and thank you so much. This will end wel, thanks to you, that i am sure of. You sir have a nice splendid day and i hope a day with good fortune. take care....I just wanne recheck, because i notice some odd things and that is why i wanne be sure. trying not to mess up this time. greetings from sunny Turnhout!!
 
Hello Mr.IseeDesignher, The sun went behind the clouds, so i did do those measuremenets again.
Here are the results! 3///// 94.2-----94.0 15/////94.1-----94.0
4///// 94.1-----94.0 16/////94.1-----94.0
5///// 59.6-----00.0 17/////61.6-----0.00
6///// 61.5-----00.0 18/////61.8-----0.00
7///// 94.2-----94.0 19/////94.1-----96.0
8///// 94.1-----94.0 20/////94.1-----96.0
9///// 59.7-----00.0 21/////59.3-----00.0
10///// 59.2-----00.0 22/////59.0-----00.0
11///// 94.1-----94.0 23/////94.3-----95.8
12///// 94.2-----94.0 24/////94.3-----95.9
13///// 64.3-----00.0 25/////59.3-----00.0
14///// 59.2-----00.0 26/////59.9-----00.0
so my friend, i hope this makes some sence to you, because for me its chinese and Indian mixed up. I do notice 19 en 20 and 23 and 24, diffrantiate from the rest, but even a blind monkey can spot that. now i have to wait for your expertise i guess.

i wanne ask you another question because you know your stuff, why did you chosse samsung QLed over OLED? Just Curious.

take care dear sir, hope you have a nice day! Greetings.
 
I am glad that you had a change of pace today, and spent time helping someone too.

I wanted to offer a few more notes before you start in again.

1). Be super careful once you do take the inner panel off. It is so easy to break
Flex cables, driver chips and especially plastic tabs around the edges.
Here is just one video that may help:
I suggest looking at more than one. This one has a different LED array than yours.

2). Measuring the PS voltages (again)
The connector labeled “26” has 26 pins, 2 not used, the other 24 for the LED arrays.
12 of those 24 will ways be 0.0 Vdc. The other 12, listed in the table with a “+”
Are what matters. Please measure the voltages for each pin #. Half of the leads
are on the underside of the connector. It might be hard to get to all of them, but
it is critical that you make a table of the voltage on pins 3 - 26 as that will tell us
what is wrong (if anything) with the PS board and which LED strings are either
open or shorted. These LED arrays usually have a parallel zener diode that will
allow current to flow around a whole string if one LED in that string is open.
The detailed voltages for all 12 channels (the index table has the map to the pin #s)
will pinpoint exactly what’s going on with the system, but I can’t help if these 12
PS voltages are not associated with the exact pin # and therefore channel #.

I know that his is more effort on your part. You probably do understand already hat I am asking for, but I can provide more help if I get that table of voltages - 24 voltages and their pin #s.

If the voltage measurements that you supplied last time were all measured on just the top of the connector, or the back leads of the connector socket on the PCB, that data only covers 6 out of the 12 power supply voltages.

You had pointed out that the transformer looked funny. Well, I looked at it again. It was a bit fuzzy, but it is just possible that there is a problem there.

Let’s say that the transformer had two sets of secondaries, one supplying CH1-CH6 and the other supplying CH7-CH12.

Then, if one of the two leads associated with the those (assumed) dual secondaries was open, then one bank or the other would be dead. In other words, if the PS has a problem, and that problem has to do with an open lead of the transformer, then CH1-6 would be all good and CH7-12 would be all bad; or, vice versa.

You could not get CH1 good, CH2 bad, CH3 good, CH4 bad, CH5 good, CH6 bad - because of the topology of your power supply.

Please forgive me for stressing this over again, but I think it is very likely that there is NOTHING wrong with your PS board.

We just have to prove it.

Then, we can move on.

If the PS is good, its to the panels!

If the PS is bad, that will be easy to diagnose and fix (with enough data), and THEN its on to the panels.

Many Blessings
 

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