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Hyundai Imagequest Q321 Review

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Riki

Standard Member
You say :
Ran powerstrip and changed refresh rate to 50hz. It fixed the black border, but the loss in PQ is unacceptable.
while in this post, Keithmacneill say :
Whereas using [email protected] and the Q321 scaling the image you slightly loose some of that sharpness, but only slightly; the text does bleed at regular intervals across the screen, but it's not that bad.

so, where is the truth ? :)
"unacceptable" or "not that bad" ???:confused:

..
 

kpkpkp

Novice Member
I have just been on the Novatech website and it appears they are no longer selling the Q321, Can you confirm this KP?

http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?NOV-Q321

I was thinking of getting one (as its great TV despite the lip sync issues) but now am not so sure?
Nope,

We just run out of stock, and the new ones we have coming are might havve HDMI rather than DVI - we have asked for th DVI ones but I dont want to take back orders for the DVI ones if they are gonna be HDMI - they will be back up on the site tomorrow.

Kp
 

16to9

Novice Member
so, where is the truth ? :)
"unacceptable" or "not that bad" ???:confused:

..
Well I *do* run it at 50Hz so I do get the scaling problem with the desktop. TBH I'd say it's better than "not that bad", in fact, for most uses, you can't tell. Small fonts do bleed a bit.

Someone a while back (!) said he wanted to get this as a large monitor. To my mind, that would do your head in. It doesn't have a great enough resolution for its size to use as a monitor, presuming you'd sit a foot away from it.

But as a display device for an HTPC, where you sit 6 feet away, it's no problem.

So let me say again: as a TV for an HTPC, for us PAL users, this is the one to get.

Ok, it has lipsync issues which I'd like to see fixed, but no other TV could do what this does - and I remind you I bought and returned a very decent Samsung before getting this, precisely because the Sammy made PC video look awful. If you're an HTPC user, you're limited with what will show 50Hz video properly. This does, it does it very very well, it's cheap, and for that reason, it's great.
 

Riki

Standard Member
thanks 16to9, it's clear now.

If you're an HTPC user, you're limited with what will show 50Hz video properly. This does, it does it very very well, it's cheap, and for that reason, it's great.
These are the reasons why I'm going to buy it.

Hope that lipsync issues (if any) will be restricted to the digital tuner only.
It should be no delay among the video (DVI) and the audio (whatever) sent from the HTPC, or not ?

thank you
 

Mirak

Banned
thanks 16to9, it's clear now.


These are the reasons why I'm going to buy it.

Hope that lipsync issues (if any) will be restricted to the digital tuner only.
It should be no delay among the video (DVI) and the audio (whatever) sent from the HTPC, or not ?

thank you
I had lipsync issues on all the inputs from known good sources, this happened on 2 sets. Pity, as the dvi picture quality was quite nice, but with these regular problems it became an extra large no no.
 

FubarNo1

Novice Member
I have just sent my set back :(

Although I had some major issues with back-light bleed through (posted pic's of it here some time ago) I did not want to return the set just in case I got one back with faulty pixels, but the lip-sync issue just seemed to get worse and worse the more I watched TV (maybe you start to become tuned to it and notice it more, or even subconsciously look for it) but I found that I too was not limited to just the Digital source for lip-sync issues, I was getting it on DVD and my Toppy, but not all the time though?

The strange thing was that I could play a recording from my toppy through the TV and get lip-sync problems but play the same recording through my CRT I had none, same with the DVD on any of the inputs, yet I could play something that had lip-sync issues previously and there was either none or very little, it just seemed so random, it got to the point that I just could not watch anything on the Q321 and ended up going back to my CRT (thank god I did not get rid of it).

I PM'd "Cupcake"...err I mean "KpKpKp" explained the situation to him and he accepted the return, although I could not fault the display (god I miss that) the lip-sync just got too much for me, maybe its a bit like the DLP projectors where some viewing the projection see irregularities where others don't, maybe those that don't experience lip-sync with the Q321 are very lucky or just don't notice it as much as others.

But to those that do have problems with the Q321, rather than complaining about it here in the forum, exercise your ability to speak directly with a representative from the company you purchased it from you may find that they are very helpful in trying to rectify your complaint, if they are not then come into the forum moaning, but at least you have given them the opportunity to do something about it before you do.

I'm now on the hunt for another LCD because after having the Q321 (my first LCD) I can only just tolerate my 7yr old CRT, ok no lip-sync issues but the picture is just pure crap (I did think it was a good picture before I got the Q321, just shows what being spoilt can do to you) :cool:
 

py3m4n

Novice Member
@Riki

I use my Q321 as a "large monitor' from around 6-8ft away running @ [email protected] 1:1 (black bar on left side) and have no problems viewing it as a desktop. I use firefox and sometimes use zoom function (ctl -/+) if I am viewing a webpage with really small font.

Running it at [email protected] on the desktop after paying 600 quid for it with a primary use being as a desktop/HTPC IMO, Is definitely "unacceptable" the "bleeding" that this causes to the font when scaled to 1366 is blindingly obvious, as I no longer have 1:1 pixel mapping (albeit with a black bar on left side)

I suppose its a personal thing. For me, prolonged use with the font bleeding like that hurts my eyes (and my bank balance to PQ ratio) I would prefer to keep the PQ I get at 60hz on my desktop and when/if I have any problems with PAL DVD playback. I will try and tweak/find an app that will let me play it back at 50hz.

That said, I reccomend the Q321 to anyone. If you can live with the black bar when using it as a PC desktop (I do) then you have the best quality 32" PC monitor money can buy IMO. The PQ is excellent.

I also use it with an xbox (over component) and the PQ is superb. Far better than the advanced scart I was using previously with my old CRT.

When it comes to lip-sync I have experienced no issues on the IDTV. though admittedly, I don't use it very often (prefer to use my PCs TV card)

Next stop is to get myself an xbox360 and run it over VGA. I know I won't be dissapointed.

EDIT: Wonder if there is a way to split the unused pixels on the left side evenly. So there is two smaller black bars either side? If this was possible you would hardly notice them and would make the unused pixels a lot less irratating.
 

coolio

Novice Member
I have just sent my set back :(



But to those that do have problems with the Q321, rather than complaining about it here in the forum, exercise your ability to speak directly with a representative from the company you purchased it from you may find that they are very helpful in trying to rectify your complaint, if they are not then come into the forum moaning, but at least you have given them the opportunity to do something about it before you do.
I have contacted Novatch numerous times, but to no avail.
 

meggie_dude

Novice Member
I see you are viewing CC.
Before you disappear :D , any more news on the firmware fix for the usual issue??

EDIT - Damn - he's gone already. :(
 

kojak71

Novice Member
Running it at [email protected] on the desktop after paying 600 quid for it with a primary use being as a desktop/HTPC IMO, Is definitely "unacceptable" the "bleeding" that this causes to the font when scaled to 1366 is blindingly obvious, as I no longer have 1:1 pixel mapping (albeit with a black bar on left side)

I suppose its a personal thing. For me, prolonged use with the font bleeding like that hurts my eyes (and my bank balance to PQ ratio) I would prefer to keep the PQ I get at 60hz on my desktop and when/if I have any problems with PAL DVD playback. I will try and tweak/find an app that will let me play it back at 50hz.
You will struggle to find any display out there that would meet your expectations, and that's even if you doubled your budget. If prolonged desktop use is your primary requirement, then you have cut one corner too much, this is first and foremost a television set. Quite why so many people are making such a fuss about a row of 6 pixels is completely beyond me, it is too miniscule to lament over such a tiny amount of desktop real estate. People seem to forget just how bad things were with CRT monitors in this regard, trying to expand the desktop to fill a CRT screen would introduce a lot of geometry problems forcing me to employ 1-2cm no-go border. Now that was annoying!

The 50Hz fix is to deal with the telecine judder issue. But this causes the screen to upscale the image, making it ever so slightly overscanned (I would hazard that the perceived resolution is 1368x768). So I agree that prolonged use of 50Hz for desktop use is not perfect. But for fullscreen TV/DVD playback, I couldn't spy with my critical eye any degradation. So I would switch between 60Hz for desktop use and 50Hz for TV/DVD playback, with powerstrip you can assign hotkeys to do this on the fly.

EDIT: Wonder if there is a way to split the unused pixels on the left side evenly. So there is two smaller black bars either side? If this was possible you would hardly notice them and would make the unused pixels a lot less irratating.
Yes, depending on what graphics card you have, it's control panel might have a screen adjustment function. I know on the nVidia cards, this also includes an option to centre the output on the display. Alternatively you can use powerstrip.
 

gloomyandy

Standard Member
What you are seeing when you reach 50Hz and the border is 'corrected' is that the internal scaler of the TV kicks in and stretches the 1360x768 picture to fill the 1366x768 physical display resolution.

For video use you can either do this and loose some horizontal detail but gain smooth 50Hz source playback or go back to 60Hz and keep all the detail but put up with 50-60Hz frame conversion issues.

I stuck to 60Hz for a while but in the end preferred the smoothness of 50Hz for PAL based stuff.
I did exactly the same and find that the slight PQ loss is better than the jurky playback issues.

However one thing I did find was that using the nvidia control panel advanced timings I could set the "active pixels" to 1360 and the "back end pixels" to 1368. To me this gives better scaling of the image. With basically just a slight softening of the image towards the centre of the display.

Andy
 
B

Barbosa

Guest
I have contacted Novatch numerous times, but to no avail.
Sorry, but I have been able to talk to KPKPKP on numerous occasions. At the moment, hes waiting on me phoning him back, as he cannot provide me with what was offered originally, that of DVI AND HDMI connectivity. With the amount of extra connections. I'm in a dilemma- the PQ is outstanding, but it needs a fix, if I send it off I don't have a TV, and I may not get mine back (no dead pixels, etc). If I get a refund, sure I can buy a Samsung for that price (oh yes I can!) but with not so many connections. I would like to maybe stick with this one, or get one with an HDMI socket, which then leaves me with Vista through VGA- when I went out & bought a DVI card especially. If I do stick, should I be asking for compensation in some way due to the lack of HDMI, and if I take a tv with HDMI, do I get a refund for the DVI card??
To summarise, the options are:
1) Accept a refund in full.
2) Accept a TV with HDMI, but lose DVI.
3) Stick with what I have, but get it SkyHD readied.
4) Stick with what I have, never buy SkyHD, and avoid DVB. And ask, nay plead, for a partial gratis payment.
Dilemmas, dilemmas, dilemmas......:suicide:
 

CoolCurly

Novice Member
I see you are viewing CC.
Before you disappear :D , any more news on the firmware fix for the usual issue??

EDIT - Damn - he's gone already. :(
Hi mate, sorry Ive been popping in and out today in between my normal day.

Two engineers are flying over tommorrow to see it - one of them is an English Speaking German who spent along time in the States - As KP stated before, it seems the Korean engineers havent been able to actually "see" the problem, which could be the reason for the delay in "fixing" said problem.

They are here for two days, and he knows Exactly what Im talking about and what to look for.

We are getting closer.....
 

coolio

Novice Member
To summarise, the options are:
1) Accept a refund in full.
2) Accept a TV with HDMI, but lose DVI.
3) Stick with what I have, but get it SkyHD readied.
4) Stick with what I have, never buy SkyHD, and avoid DVB. And ask, nay plead, for a partial gratis payment.
Dilemmas, dilemmas, dilemmas......:suicide:
I#d love a full refund, is that what kp offered? In Novatechs correspondence they quoted a refund if I have the original box, and pay for a courier.

I don't have the box.

The same was reiterated by kp on here. I don't want to come across as ungrateful because I cannot think of any other company that has someone so willing to answer questions on a forum like this, but at the end of the day, sometimes I have to switch the TV off because the lip sync is so bad, and it makes the program unwatchable.
 

py3m4n

Novice Member
You will struggle to find any display out there that would meet your expectations, and that's even if you doubled your budget. If prolonged desktop use is your primary requirement, then you have cut one corner too much, this is first and foremost a television set. Quite why so many people are making such a fuss about a row of 6 pixels is completely beyond me, it is too miniscule to lament over such a tiny amount of desktop real estate. People seem to forget just how bad things were with CRT monitors in this regard, trying to expand the desktop to fill a CRT screen would introduce a lot of geometry problems forcing me to employ 1-2cm no-go border. Now that was annoying!

Yes, depending on what graphics card you have, it's control panel might have a screen adjustment function. I know on the nVidia cards, this also includes an option to centre the output on the display. Alternatively you can use powerstrip.
I think mabye you misunderstand me. I am one of the happy Q321 owners. My expectations are not high, I previously stated I am content to live with the unused pixels on the left side of the screen as I prefer to have the better PQ for use as a desktop.

I was more than aware when purchasing the Q321 that it was first and foremost a TV. But part of the draw for many consumers was that it could be used as monitor for the PC (Which it does superbly albeit with the unused pixels) and give you lots of desktop real estate. Whereas it would cost me twice the amount for the likes of the DELL/Apple for roughly that amount of desktop real estate without these issues at a res of 1920x1080.

Again I am a happy customer. Such a happy customer that if you look back at my previous posts you will see that I have even approached KP with regards to procuring a returned/box open set with known lip-sync issues on SKYHD which I would intend to use as a desktop over DVI (with its black bar) and use the one I have at the moment as my main HTPC in my living room.

As for adjusting the screen I have tried to do so with both ATIs Catalyst and powerstrip. With catalyst I have set it to use centered timings and it does nothing and I have attempted the same with powerstrip, It will not adjust
horizontally only vertically?

I suppose you could interpret my posts as some sort of grievance or complaint (thats your interpretation). But from my perspective it was just a satisfied Q321 owner looking for a little advice on getting the most out of his purchase.
 

Riki

Standard Member
Ok, let me riassume (sorry for the long post and for my english).


As regard video resolutions, Q321, connected to a HTPC (i.e. to a graphic card), can :



- show 1360x768 @ 60Hz 1:1 (w/o rescaling) via digital input (quite rare)

desktop quality: wonderful

60Hz video playback : wonderful

50Hz video playback : stuttering/juddering (workaround -> none)

(Here I'm considering an hypothetical video at the native resolution of 1360x768)



- accept 1360x768 @ 50Hz (with only horizontal rescaling) via digital input (rare)

desktop quality : subjective ("not that bad", "better than not that bad", "not great", "unacceptable") ( workaround -> scale up fonts size )

50Hz video playback : great (indistinguible from 60Hz video playback at 1360x768 @ 60Hz 1:1)

(as above, I'm considering an hypothetical video at the native resolution of 1360x768)


global workaround :
1) switch from 60Hz when using desktop (internet browsing etc..) to 50Hz as programs like mediaplayer (*) or TVplayer (*) start.
2) Use [email protected] for the desktop and [email protected] for playing PAL

(*) as mediaplayer I mean programs like Zoomplayer that show DVD or recorded MPEG
(*) as TVplayer I mean programs like ProgDVB (with a SAT TV card)



- accept 1280x720 @ 50/60Hz via DVI (common). (This is the so called 720p, I suppose)

50Hz video playback : good

Here HTPC users have many choices :

video card output ______ PC rescaling _ TV rescaling
1280x720 @ 50Hz ________ NO ___________ YES
1280x720 @ 60Hz (^) ____ NO ___________ YES
1360x768 @ 50Hz ________ YES __________ slightly horizontal
1360x768 @ 60Hz (^) ____ YES __________ NO
1360x768 @ 50Hz ________ NO (*) _______ slightly horizontal
1360x768 @ 60Hz (^) ____ NO (*) _______ NO


(*) with black borders on top,down,left and rigth (a 30" image centered on a 32" display)
(^) stutter/judder problems on PAL sources

Which is the best ? :)



- accept 576i/576p @ 50Hz via DVI. (This is PAL, I suppose) (This is the standard format coming from SAT)

HTPC choices :

video card output __ PC rescaling _ TV rescaling_______ PC deinterlacing _ TV deinterlacing
576i @ 50Hz ________ NO ___________ YES________________ NO _______________ YES
576p @ 50Hz ________ NO ___________ YES________________ YES _______________ NO
1360x768 @ 50Hz ____ YES __________ slightly horizontal





As regard the lipsync issues, I really don't understand...
It seems to me a matter of voodoo (bat nails etc..) rather than of electronics (firmware revision, input path etc..)



Open questions :


- Is there a trick to get 1360x768 @ 50Hz 1:1 (w/o rescaling) via DVI
playing with Powerstrip and "front porch" as suggested by kojak71 ?
On the Powerstrip forum there is a recent post which seems to confirm that it's possible with a LG via HDMI.


- Does 1366x768 @ 75Hz 1:1 (w/o rescaling) solve (partially/completely) PAL stutter issues ?
(according to the user manual, this one is a supported resolution)


- Which is the desktop quality difference between DVI and VGA input at 1360x768 @ 60Hz ?


- Is there a way to center 1360x768 1:1 leaving 3 black columns on left and 3 on right (instead of 6 on left only) ? (I read somewhere it's possible but forgot where)Solved : Yes, via PC
 

meggie_dude

Novice Member
lipsync issues, I really don't understand...
It seems to me a matter of voodoo (bat nails etc..) rather than of electronics (firmware revision, input path etc..)
Well it was halloween last night . Unfortunately I did not consider nailing a bat to the side of the panel to fix lip-sync - damn.
Mother-in-law was around though, so there was a witch on site, to cast a spell.:rotfl:
 

kojak71

Novice Member
I think maybe you misunderstand me. I am one of the happy Q321 owners. My expectations are not high, I previously stated I am content to live with the unused pixels on the left side of the screen as I prefer to have the better PQ for use as a desktop.
Perhaps, but you contradicted yourself in a statement you made earlier on:

@Running it at [email protected] on the desktop after paying 600 quid for it with a primary use being as a desktop/HTPC IMO, Is definitely "unacceptable"….
My posting was an attempt to offer an alternative opinion, that although for desktop use [email protected] might not be perfect, you will struggle to notice any PQ deterioration during HTPC use. IMO PQ during HTPC use will increase because of the reduction/elimination of telecine judder. But my mistake was directing all of my comments to you, some of them were meant for others. For that I apologise. If you have any further comments, PM me.
 

Riki

Standard Member
I would reformulate my previous post from a different and more concise perspective.

Suppose you have a Q321 and a HTPC with a video SAT card and a DVD player.



Now, the first question is : Which is the best setup in order to use Q321 as a large monitor (i.e. internet browsing, document reading, viewing photos, playing chess etc...)

The answer is easy : I should set my video card to output 1360x768 @ 60 Hz and connect the Q321 with a DVI-DVI cable



The second question is : which video formats my HTPC will have to handle ? (this is slightly O.T.)

1) Standard satellite transmission : 576i @ 50 Hz
2) HD satellite transmission : ?? , maybe 720p @ 50Hz
3) MPEG recorded video : 576i, 720p both @ 50 HZ
4) MPEG/DivX downloaded somewhere : various formats, for example HDTV samples from M$ are 720p @ 24Hz
4) DVD : ?? what resolutions ? what frequencies ?(I think mainly 50Hz and occasionally 60Hz)
5) Console : ???



The last question is : which optimal resolution and frequency should I set on my video card and which input should I use (DVI/VGA) to view at best each of the previous video sources on my Q321 ?

Once answered to the second question, hereunder should be a list of the best setting for each video mode (I will update it later).


Video Mode ___ Best setting (resolution, frequencies, DVI/VGA, other notes)


576i @ 50Hz : ??

720p @ 50Hz : ??

720p @ 60Hz : ??

720p @ 24Hz : ??

...

what else ?





thank you all
 

kpkpkp

Novice Member
Ok All

I have the 2 senior product engineers landing with me tomorrow and they have not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 new firmware versions written and hopefully ready to rock and roll. Now I don't know which will work or if some people will find one better than the others but I have been told that I will be able to post all of them tomorrow.

So fingers crossed there will be a lip sync fix on this forum from tomorrow.

Providing we are happy with the results.

Thanks for you patience in advance.

Kp
 

meggie_dude

Novice Member
Ok All

I have the 2 senior product engineers landing with me tomorrow and they have not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 new firmware versions written and hopefully ready to rock and roll. Now I don't know which will work or if some people will find one better than the others but I have been told that I will be able to post all of them tomorrow.

So fingers crossed there will be a lip sync fix on this forum from tomorrow.

Providing we are happy with the results.

Thanks for you patience in advance.

Kp
:eek: :eek: :eek:

To paraphrase Mutley off "Dastedly and Mutley" for those of you who are old enough to remember it :-

Give-me, Give-me, Give-me !!!!
 

meggie_dude

Novice Member
Ok All

I have the 2 senior product engineers landing with me tomorrow and they have not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 new firmware versions written and hopefully ready to rock and roll. Now I don't know which will work or if some people will find one better than the others but I have been told that I will be able to post all of them tomorrow.

So fingers crossed there will be a lip sync fix on this forum from tomorrow.

Providing we are happy with the results.

Thanks for you patience in advance.

Kp
BTW - expect your server to break from all the hits KP.
 

meggie_dude

Novice Member
Ok All

I have the 2 senior product engineers landing with me tomorrow and they have not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 new firmware versions written and hopefully ready to rock and roll. Now I don't know which will work or if some people will find one better than the others but I have been told that I will be able to post all of them tomorrow.

So fingers crossed there will be a lip sync fix on this forum from tomorrow.

Providing we are happy with the results.

Thanks for you patience in advance.

Kp
Forgot to ask KP. If you are saying this - how come CC has an Americanized German developer coming to visit hm tomorrow - as posted earlier. What's he doing if there is a fix - or rather 4 possibles?? Are we to be guinea pigs??
You guys speaking to each other???
 
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