Hybrid Volkswagen Golf!

Discussion in 'EV Electric Cars Forum' started by Craig uk, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Craig uk

    Craig uk
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  2. GaryB19722010

    GaryB19722010
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    Looks good
     
  3. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
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    I like the look...whether it is smart to pitch it against the GTI and GTD I'm not so sure....But hey VAG seems to be doing all right, so what do I know :)
     
  4. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
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    Aargh, another American market appeasing hybrid!
    That's the only reason they make petrol hybrids, because bloody Americans still view diesel as being for trucks.
    Hybrids designed for the European market should be diesel/electric, as the likes of Volvo have done.
     
  5. mikeburns

    mikeburns
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    It’s not the only reason, generally hybrids dump the starter motor and use the electric motor to start the engine, when the vehicle is moving on electric only they have to bump start the engine, which is much harder and more disruptive to do with the high compression ratios of a diesel engine. Also as the hybrid system weights a lot in itself so fitting a lighter petrol engine makes senses over a much heavier diesel engine.
     
  6. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
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    It's the main one, let's be honest.
    Any technical advantages to it are just a side show.
    If America is one of their biggest markets, fair play to them.
    But it still makes petrol hybrids flawed in Europe.
     
  7. Trollslayer

    Trollslayer
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    A Golf with a 1.4 litre engine?
    Suppose it will do to charge battery.
     
  8. djbsom

    djbsom
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    If VAG applied this logic to the UP! and gave it a more pauper like spec, so I'm thinking a 3 cylinder petrol engine with the electrics they've specced for the Golf GTE. Lets assume 60/70 BHP, the quick charging ability and range of the GTE but with just a "standard" spec. (electric windows, basic stereo and maybe a sunroof). I would project the price to be more like 12/14 thousand pounds after the green discount and I would buy one tomorrow.
    By their reckoning it would give something like 100 mpg around town. Almost double my current school car.
     
  9. PSM1

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    Looks an interesting car. The 148bhp from the 1.4 should be OK and the 100bhp electric motor will be fine for normal usage traffic. Since my commute to work is only 11miles then should be able to get to work and back without using the petrol engine which could save a fair amount of money in a year but not sure you would save enough for the £2k premium. Still be worth a look. Wonder if other VAG marks like Skoda will release something similar for less.
     
  10. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
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    Or fit it with a small turbo diesel engine and enjoy even more mpg.
     
  11. mikeburns

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    You mean something like this –
    http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/vw-twin-up-concept-tokyo-2013-11-20

    I’m sure VW know the market better than me but I really don’t get the point of a hybridised small car like the UP! Small cars already enjoy high MPG figures and also tend to be used for shorter journeys. Any fuel cost saving is going to be removed by the HIGH price tag and most small cars are already except from road duty and congestion charges. Don’t get it?

    I suppose if you look at it as an electric car that you can go on longer journeys if needed then it makes more sense.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  12. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
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    My last company car was very close to being the Volvo V70 hybrid.
    That was damned interesting.
    Diesel + electric + 4WD + low CO2 + great performance.
    The low Co2 meant its high BIK value (£47000) meant less company car tax than my £34000 BMW.
    Lease costs, unfortunately, were horrendous.
     
  13. lovegroova

    lovegroova
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    Then you are exactly who this car is for.

    Most journeys are only a few miles so could be done at "infinity mpg" on the electric motor. That's better than any combustion engine only car of any type can manage. Should you do a longer journey, then you can fill up as needed.

    If you work 230 days a year (4 weeks' vacation plus holidays) then that's 22 x 230 = 5060 miles.
    Current diesel prices are 137p per litre, or £6.23 per gallon
    At 50mpg, that is £630, and at 60mpg that is £525

    A DSG GTD is £105 per year on road tax, so you can factor that in too.

    The £2k premium over a GTD would seem to be worth it, no DPF worries either.
     
  14. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
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    Seems a bit of a stretch to suggest anyone could do 5060 miles without ever engaging the petrol engine.
    I note the range is "up to" 31 miles.
    So that's 31 miles in the best possible scenario, I.E. light loads and no aircon/lights etc.
    So fair to say 22 miles with lights/aircon might be a stretch.
    And you have to allow 3.5 hours between charges.
    If you have to go out before recharge finished, you're onto petrol.
     
  15. lovegroova

    lovegroova
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    It'd be easy. Even if you run out of electricity after 20 miles, you've still done 20 miles. I'm amazed you couldn't figure that out. Actually, thinking about it, no I'm not!

    In any case, I very much doubt using aircon/lights would reduce the range by 30%.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  16. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
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    Doubt?
    Oh well, you've convinced me there then.
     
  17. IronGiant

    IronGiant
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    Lovegroova...Don't forget to factor in the cost of the electricity. To do those 47 miles requires you to charge an 8.8kW battery, that's going to cost you a couple of quid at a guess.
     
  18. PSM1

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    electricity is around 14p per kWh so assuming you use 10kW to charge the 8.8kW battery (accounting for some losses) then that would be £1.40 per charge. Even the most economical car probably does not cost less the £1 per 10miles (around 60mpg) on short journeys hence the 47 miles would cost at least £4.70 in fuel. Hence you would be saving a good chunk but not the full amount stated above. If you could somehow plug it in at work then could save more!!!!!
     
  19. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
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    That's the next possible issue.
    Even if it is logistically possible to plug it in, how is your employer going to react to you using their elec?
    Presumably they would have to charge for it, as other employees would object to the owner getting 'free fuel'.
    If the cost of electricity equates to around 60mpg, then that's not terribly impressive.
     
  20. AMc

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    My economy 7 runs at 7.81p kWh so an overnight charge would be 70p.
    If you have solar panels and charge in the day you not only charge using free electricity - you get paid FIT payments too.

    If I were an employer I wouldn't be concerned about £1.40 to charge the car, but how many business car parks are (currently) equipped to charge anything?
     
  21. FZR400RRSP

    FZR400RRSP
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    You'd have to become concerned if other employees came to you objecting to someone getting 'free fuel' for their car.
    If that employee works 300 days a year @ £1.40 a day, that's them getting £420 of free fuel from you!
    Hardly fair for other employees!
    It would have to be classed as a perk and taxed accordingly.
    That's the only way other employees would be pacified, by you pointing out "he/she gets taxed for it"
     
  22. PSM1

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    £1.40 would equate to over 180mpg in terms of cost.
     
  23. IronGiant

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    I think I read somewhere that running on battery is equivalent to 100 mpg... I can't remember exactly where, it might have been on an audi site as they use the same battery pack...

    It's still impressive, but it ain't free :)

    It probably depends how quickly you charge it how inefficient the charging is.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2014
  24. FZR400RRSP

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    There are also conflicting reports as to whether charging a battery to 100% is good for them.
    Leaf owners, for example, reporting they've been told to try and go to 80% only.
    Which reduces the range, obviously.
     
  25. IronGiant

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    What with only charging to 80%, not running them too low before charging and not fast charging them you begin to wonder whether the technology is quite there yet :)
     
  26. Bl4ckGryph0n

    Bl4ckGryph0n
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    I saw the Citroen DS5 hybrid today. That looked quite good, and isn't that a diesel hybrid?
     
  27. PSM1

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    I wonder how long the battery lasts and how much it would cost to replace as that would be key to the cost benefits of this type of car. If the battery is expensive (suspect it is) and needs replacing fairly frequently then could be a real drain on any savings that could be made. Also does it contain any kind of self charging system so as you brake/slow down it charges the battery for you?
     
  28. lovegroova

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    Well, I've provided as much evidence as you have.

    I note you ignored the elephant in the room with regards to your maths skills, or lack thereof relating to the mileage calculation.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2014
  29. IronGiant

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    Currently equivalent 500W modules cost ~£400 so for the Golf you could be looking at £1400 for a complete replacement. They lose charging capacity so after 5 years you have lost 20% capacity, although if used carefully are expected to last 10 years so long as you don''t mind the capacity dropping by 40%.. (This is based on the Nissan Leaf for which there are figures). On the other hand battery technology is always moving forwards and compatible replacements when you need them could be much cheaper and or completely different tech...
     
  30. mikeburns

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    Some manufactures make you lease the battery pack and replace them as the capacity starts to deteriorate.
     

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