Hybrid Cars, What’s the Point?

Gingerbeard

Active Member
Latest reports by Which claims Hybrid cars are the worst polluters and far worse than originally thought. If this is the case, what is the point of them and why aren’t these things ironed out in the development stage and before they come to market?

I’m sure a lot of customers would have purchased these type of vehicles based on the premiss that they are greener than other cars and therefore are doing their bit for the environment, so must pretty annoyed with this. I know I would be

 
D

Deleted member 202217

Guest
It's the same cobblers that we were told, go out and buy a diesel car.
 

rousetafarian

Moderator
Moved to the correct destination forum
 

AMc

Distinguished Member
I didn't see anywhere in the article that said hybrid cars are the worst polluters or far worse than originally thought.
Show me a petrol or diesel car that hits the MPG in the real world that is quoted in the official tests.

I know my old man's Prius did impressive MPG. His plugin Prius has only been refuelled once in a year - partly COVID but also because almost all his journeys are covered the battery alone.

The big SUVs with tiny batteries are a completely different kettle of fish - greenwashing at it's worst.
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
The big SUVs with tiny batteries are a completely different kettle of fish - greenwashing at it's worst.

A friend of mine (with no taste, I hate SUVs) has an X5 45e.
(I grudgingly admit, it is actually quite a nice car. It rides well, it's quiet, the intterior is lovely and a nice place to be and while it doesn't handle it doesn't roll all over the road and sits flat. It's also remarkably quick. It's just so pointlessly huge and a massive bellend status symbol)

It takes the kids to school, goes to work and comes home, shopping and the odd run, they're getting 160+mpg out it as the engine barely ever kicks in. It's got a real-world 35+ mile range on the battery and rarely does more than that per day.

It's what I'd want in a saloon/estate. A decent engine with some shove and a decent-sized battery that can do the mundane daily stuff.
They just don't seem to make it yet.
 

sagaris99

Well-known Member
A friend of mine (with no taste, I hate SUVs) has an X5 45e.
(I grudgingly admit, it is actually quite a nice car. It rides well, it's quiet, the intterior is lovely and a nice place to be and while it doesn't handle it doesn't roll all over the road and sits flat. It's also remarkably quick. It's just so pointlessly huge and a massive bellend status symbol)

It takes the kids to school, goes to work and comes home, shopping and the odd run, they're getting 160+mpg out it as the engine barely ever kicks in. It's got a real-world 35+ mile range on the battery and rarely does more than that per day.

It's what I'd want in a saloon/estate. A decent engine with some shove and a decent-sized battery that can do the mundane daily stuff.
They just don't seem to make it yet.
BMW now do the 545e?
B58 with the hybrid powertrain, cracking package
 

The Dreamer

Distinguished Member
Latest reports by Which claims Hybrid cars are the worst polluters and far worse than originally thought. If this is the case, what is the point of them and why aren’t these things ironed out in the development stage and before they come to market?

I’m sure a lot of customers would have purchased these type of vehicles based on the premiss that they are greener than other cars and therefore are doing their bit for the environment, so must pretty annoyed with this. I know I would be

Reading the article, it seems Which has deliberately used a methodology to boost their claims. Of course, if you choose not to plug your hybrid in overnight, it's going to return worse results than even a pure petrol engined vehicle. And indeed, there are users (company car drivers are apparently particularly bad at this) that won't bother charging when they should.

But their testing is the equivalent of saying, we know this car has 6 gears - but we're only going to test it using three of them. It's flawed testing to backup their agenda.

It is patently obvious that the only way you will get close to the quoted figures is by making best use of the electrical system. If you choose not to do that, then of course you're not going to achieve anything like the company figures.

What is needed is education and incentive to encourage the drivers of these vehicles to use them as intended - just because someone else is paying for your fuel, doesn't, or shouldn't, give you carte blanche to ignore the need to plug it in overnight!

Maybe companies that provide these vehicles as company cars should be forced to install appropriate infrastructure at the workplace, so the vehicles at least get charged while at work?

Don't know what the solution really is - but the performance, or lack of, of these cars is down to operator error, rather than the technology itself.
 

nvingo

Distinguished Member
I know my old man's Prius did impressive MPG. His plugin Prius has only been refuelled once in a year - partly COVID but also because almost all his journeys are covered the battery alone.
My mechanic friend, talking about model reliability/longevity, said the Prius came out top; the ICE isn't ever stressed as the electric motor does all the stressiest work pulling from a standstill.
Using electric-only in stop-start town/city traffic is a no-brainer, running the ICE at idle whilst going nowhere has the most drastic effect on MPG figures.
Any ICE-only vehicle in those situations is just using fuel to heat up the brake discs, an electric/hybrid can recover some charge each time it slows down.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
The Passat and Golf GTEs are some of the better hybrids, being relatively quick and with realistic battery range. The 330e was never bad, but lots of people just never bother to plug them in.

Unless you are a company car driver, they are all fairly pointless, as the cost of purchase in the first place negates the reduced running costs for quite some miles.


I'm planning on at least 1 more ICE before I go electric.
 

AMc

Distinguished Member
A used Golf GTE was on my list for serious consideration in 2020 as a replacement for my 2009 Golf GTi. Most of my journeys would fit comfortably inside it's battery range.
Once every couple of months I do a several hundred mile round trip mostly single carriageway A roads with no services to a Premiere Inn or a city street with no charging, so not having to worry about charging would be a bonus.
Every couple of years we take a European road trip so again not having range anxiety would be good.
I appreciate dragging around an unused ICE most of the time is a bit wasteful but not as expensive as dragging around a >200 mile range battery pack on a 15 mile commute and still having to find charging en route for longer trips.
 

Spiderpig

Distinguished Member
Intend to view these test figures as being purely for comparison purposes. It seems a bit disingenuous of Which? to imply that they expected these to be “real world” claims.

That being said, I drive a plug-in XC60 and the majority of my driving is on battery power. I expect the next car I buy will be a full EV, when I can expect a reasonable return on cost and efficiency. Right now, a decent EV is an overly expensive thing.
 

Delvey

Distinguished Member
I had been looking at the GTE passat.
After receiving a few reviews, the GTE gets near enough the same range as the diesel +/- a few miles. (VW claims the diesel can do 70mpg but that is rather optimistic going off Honest John. With petrol being 10p a litre cheaper than diesel the GTE passant seems like a no brainer, with a 3 year old model costing similar price
 

Spiderpig

Distinguished Member
Petrol also has, arguably, less emission issues than diesel - or at least a more acceptable (for want of a better word) form of pollution.

Personally, I’m doing my bit to reduce urban pollution by pootling on battery power.
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
Diesel PHEV's actually make a bit more sense to me, especially for larger cars, SUVs, etc.

Battery power for short journeys and in the city to lower pollution. Smooth, torquey, diesel for longer journeys so your MPG doesn't fall off a cliff as soon as the battery is done.
 

noiseboy72

Distinguished Member
I think until the infrastructure to support EVs catches up, both they and PHEVs will remain a little bit niche. At the moment it's hard to live with an EV unless you have a private charging point at home, as on street residential charging is still virtually non existent.

My twice a week "commute" is 100 miles each way on fast motorways and dual carriageways, with no charging points available at the office or within walking distance. I also visit customer sites all over the UK that may have some charging points, but this cannot be guaranteed. I could get a PHEV, but I would probably use just the battery range for a couple of shopping trips each week and that would be about it. For majority of my journeys, I would spend more time using the ice, so it just doesn't make sense.

For me, a modern clean diesel is probably the lowest cost, lowest emission option for the time being. Once charging infrastructure is in place and longer range vehicles come down to a reasonable cost, that will be the time for me to switch.
 

Spiderpig

Distinguished Member
Right now, owning a PHEV is like owning a dog - pointless if it doesn't suit your lifestyle. Many of my journeys are relatively short, so it suits me just fine.
 

cunny678

Distinguished Member
I lease my PHEV through my business so it has tax advantages. Also, at the time of purchase the lease cost was less than the equivalent diesel model. I couldn’t find an EV I liked at the time so the PHEV was the best option for me. It’s only got a real world range of about 20 miles in summer, but that’s enough to get me an average of 60+ Mpg on my 32 mile daily commute. It’s also much nicer to drive at lower speeds as the transition between battery and engine is smoother than cars with traditional stop start.
 

Jimmy Connors

Standard Member
Up until two years ago I had a Toyota Prius. It was 17 years old but remains the most reliable car I have ever had. Not once did it need attention for any failures. For its age it felt very new and well put together. It was fully built in Japan, and very much over engineered, so maybe that played a part.

Unfortunately some morons decided to steal the catalytic converter from it. Cut it right off rendering the car a write off. I kept it and had it repaired myself for £550 (new exhaust from front to back)

A month after getting it back the catalytic converter was stolen again. I even had a bloody catlock on it (which they stole too)

That was it, I allowed it to be written off.

I'll not get another hybrid. They're prime for this crime as most of them have two cats which are usually in good condition as the ICE is very rarely stressed.

Most hybrids in London have been done now, so they are starting on older Japanese cars. Hybrids or not.
 

Spiderpig

Distinguished Member
The mostly go for Toyotas. Modern, western cars have their cats mounted near to the engine and are far harder to remove.

I’d suggest considering another hybrid, but a different make next time around.
 

Jimmy Connors

Standard Member
The mostly go for Toyotas. Modern, western cars have their cats mounted near to the engine and are far harder to remove.

I’d suggest considering another hybrid, but a different make next time around.
Now that is something I was not aware of.

That's interesting to know thank you. Hybrids are back on my radar now. 👍
 

Spiderpig

Distinguished Member
Now that is something I was not aware of.

That's interesting to know thank you. Hybrids are back on my radar now. 👍

From a quick Google, it seems as though the new Prius is still affected (cat location hasn't moved), however, the RAV4 has it's cat near to the engine.


And a guy in this thread (in the parts industry apparently) said that he's never seen a cat stolen from a RAV4.

With my Volvo, the cat is near the engine to help get it up to efficient temperature quickly. So, it's worth looking around at new hybrids and Googling where the cat is.

The cars more prone to this kind of theft are the Prius, Auris, Jazz, and Lexus RX. Customers of newer Toyotas are being offered a cost-free catloc to mitigate thefts but how effective they are I don't know.
 

Spiderpig

Distinguished Member
Yeah, true. I don't know if there's different kinds of catlock devices and which ones are better than others.

Given enough time and opportunity, a thief can take whatever they want.
 

Jimmy Connors

Standard Member
From a quick Google, it seems as though the new Prius is still affected (cat location hasn't moved), however, the RAV4 has it's cat near to the engine.


And a guy in this thread (in the parts industry apparently) said that he's never seen a cat stolen from a RAV4.

With my Volvo, the cat is near the engine to help get it up to efficient temperature quickly. So, it's worth looking around at new hybrids and Googling where the cat is.

The cars more prone to this kind of theft are the Prius, Auris, Jazz, and Lexus RX. Customers of newer Toyotas are being offered a cost-free catloc to mitigate thefts but how effective they are I don't know.

Thank you. This problem if rife at the moment in London and has been for a few years now. They're even targeting older Japanese cars now. The cars from roughly 1998-2004 and not hybrids. Broad day light. My neighbour had her 1999 Honda Accord targeted in December. I have heard of other non hybrid cars being targeted too. It's a terrible situation.

On some vans (Mercedes) I think. The criminals smash the cab window. Lean inside and pull the bonnet, whereby they cut the cat from the engine bay. As you say, if they want it, they'll do anything to get it.



Good to hear about the RAV4 and the Volvo. With time I hope other manufacturers will change the location of the cat.
 

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