Humax HDR Fox-T2 Poor Picture Quality

Discussion in 'Digital TV & Video Players & Recorders' started by jshepherd, Jul 27, 2012.

Tags:
  1. jshepherd

    jshepherd
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    We purchased said item to run with a new Sharp LED TV. All arrived yesterday and we connected everything up and were very impressed with the picture quality when using the built-in TV tuner, but when running the Humax on HDMI 1 the picture quality is very noticeably worse.

    I can't find any settings to adjust this so I assume something is wrong. The aerial feed comes in into a Y splitter connector that is directly connected to the Humax, while the second split feed from the Y connector runs to the TV.

    The Humax is connected to the TV via an HDMI cable that was supplied with the TV. This setup replaces a Topfield 5800 box that had the exact same aerial feed and the picture quality was perfect. I appreciate the HDMI cable might be a factor here and that a better quality cable might help but I can't see it making that much of a difference? Are we missing something obvious?

    I also have a second thread under Home Cinema Buying, Setup and General Advice and Information “DVD surround running on HDMI Humax HDR Fox-T2 Problem” as we’re having a problem with that too.

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. petrev

    petrev
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,345
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    TX Mendip - DHR8205: FW4.22 - M1.35Blk
    Ratings:
    +1,015
    Hi

    First thing - The HDMI cable quality/price makes no difference to picture quality as long as you are getting a stable picture.

    Your TV probably has per-input settings that should be adjusted for the HDMI in use - Switch off Overscan and any Vivid enhancements - Follow the PicturePerfect AVF Campaign instructions as that will guide you for your TV (probably).

    http://www.myperfectpicture.tv/

    Pete
     
  3. RobH1

    RobH1
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    Try ditching the splitter, connect aerial in to HDR then fit new cable from aerial out to the TV

    Rob
     
  4. PhilipL

    PhilipL
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    3,855
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Ratings:
    +461
    Hi

    It's digital, what comes through the aerial isn't video, so there is nothing that can affect the video to worsen the quality. The splitter has no affect on picture quality what-so-ever as it can't degrade the picture, as it is just a stream of data that passes through it. Yes a week signal and a splitter might cause no picture, or random blocking or freezes, but that is all. It is physically impossible for an aerial filter on digital TV to cause EastEnders to look less sharp.

    Regards

    Phil
     
  5. RobH1

    RobH1
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    136
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    Thanks Graham, I knew that, just didn't think when I posted.
    Rob
     
  6. prking

    prking
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,442
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    66
    Location:
    Weston-super-Mare
    Ratings:
    +198
    Surely a splinter will worsen the BER, leading to increased artifacts? Which the picture processing on the TV will attempt to disguise giving a softer, poorer picture.
     
  7. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,618
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,208
    Only if it drops the signal level below the threshold, digital pictures never look softer. (That's the kind of guff that sells £100.00 hdmi cables). In some cases a splitter will actually get you a picture where before you got none. (Close to a post dso transmitter and overloading the tuner front end). In any case looping the aerial through the box will introduce extra amplification so you will have more noise than the splitter. It will also cost you money, to enable the loop through as well, as you have to disable low power sby.

    This is worth reading

    http://www.aerialsandtv.com/ampsandsplitters.html
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2012
  8. chrish7

    chrish7
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2008
    Messages:
    25
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Ratings:
    +1
    I have just bought a similar model and had a similar problem. I'm no expert but it could be the same problem (I have splitters etc and connect to a Sony TV).

    When I autotuned the Humax, at the end of the tuning phase it said it had detected 2 transmitters and would I select one of them (London or Berks/Hampshire). I'm nearest the Crystal Palace transmitter and therefore selected London. This caused a lot of blocking and the signal strength was low. I then retuned and this time selected Berks & Hampshire. Hey presto this time the signal was good and I've had no problems since.
    I'm not sure why the Humax picked up two transmitters either !

    Chris
     
  9. brods

    brods
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    I’ve revived this thread because I’ve recently purchased this box and I’ve found the HD performance very poor.

    I’ve had the Freesat version of the box for some time and have been very pleased with the results, but reception was becoming very unreliable because a neighbours tree was growing up gradually blocking the dish so I decided to try Freeview HD instead.

    The Humax HDR-Fox T2 was connected to the TV via one of the HDMI sockets and went through the setup procedure quite quickly – so far so good.

    The first thing I noticed when the box was tuned in was that both HD and SD pictures (when viewed via an HDMI input) had a strange fuzzy and slightly out of focus look. Changing between the box and the TV showed the TV to be much cleaner.

    When I changed the vertical resolution of the box from 1080 to 576 the picture quality improved remarkably and was as good as the direct TV picture except that everything was now in SD.

    Was it something to do with the HDMI input on the TV? Unlikely it’s a full HD 32 inch Panasonic – about four years old, but just to be sure I compared the HDR-Fox T2 with the Foxsat HD in the same HDMI socket with the same cable. The Foxsat was noticeably better.

    Was it that Freesat HD is just not very good? Again unlikely, because the problem is present on SD channels when they are upscaled to 1080.

    By luck I happened to catch the test card on BBC HD and all became clear. Looking at the frequency (definition) gratings on the left hand side where they should have been getting finer towards the bottom there was an extra vertical pattern on top making them appear thicker and indistinct. It’s this patterning effect in any part of the picture where fine detail is present that makes the picture look bad.

    Again I connected the Foxsat HD box to the same HDMI socket and the picture was far superior. I came to the conclusion that the signal processing on the HDR-Fox T2 was just not very good!

    Could all those people who said that the Fox T2 picture was good really be watching a picture like this? Or is this just a faulty box. I’d tend to think the latter except that it sounds very similar to the problems described in this topic.

    I can’t find any settings on the TV or the box that make any difference. I'd be interested to know if anybody has actually solved this problem. Any help greatly appreciated.
     
  10. technogran

    technogran
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2005
    Messages:
    541
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    31
    Ratings:
    +31
    Its because when Humax began to use HDMI connections, they decided to 'soften' the HDMI upscaling capabilities of the HDR resulting in the not so sharp picture qualities that you are experiencing via HDMI. You will be pleased to learn that on the new YouView Humax unit, they have removed this 'softening' applied to the upscaler, and the picture via that unit is absolutely perfect! Vivid colours, sharp HD channels and is now one of the best around.

    TG
     
  11. brods

    brods
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks for that. It makes absolute sense. What I can't understand is that nearly all the reviews describe the picture as good or superb – clearly it isn't!

    I'm returning the box under the distance selling 7 day rule and I'll look into the You View version.

    Brods
     
  12. MartinOnline

    MartinOnline
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2012
    Messages:
    155
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Ratings:
    +27
    TG,

    Can you please supply a reference to your statements about Picture Quality.

    I do seem to remember comments about Picture Quality but more about the Humax not "enhancing" the quality - leaving that up to the TV settings which can add sharpness and extra colour depth.

    Just like Beauty, Picture Quality is in the eye of the beholder. See: Thinking of getting a HDR-FOX T2... « My Humax Forum for an alternative view.

    Brods,

    If you go for YouView look closely at its limitations as well as its advantages and look at the humax-specific forums - myhumax.org and hummy.tv, specifically.

    Martin
     
  13. brods

    brods
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hello Martin.
    I take your point about picture quality being subjective and people liking different amounts of colour , contrast, sharpening etc, but I've yet to hear anyone wanting to adjust the amount of patterning in the in the picture.:laugh:

    I tried adjusting the sharpening on the TV it just sharpens the “patterning” for want of a better word and makes it look even worse.

    Again I say patterning for want of a better word because it's hard to explain the effect. Imagine the chroma patterning on striped shirts and the like on an old analogue TV but stationary, in monochrome and much finer. From normal viewing distances the area concerned just looks soft and out of focus. It looks so much like a signal processing nasty!:(

    Whatever the cause it doesn't look like I'm going to be able to solve the problem on this particular model so sadly, It's being returned.

    Thanks. I will do a lot more research before I try another box.
    I'm not really worried about YouView I probably wouldn't use it anyway! What I'm looking for (and so far failed miserably) is something that gives a good Freeview HD (and SD) picture and is capable of recording the odd programme. If such a beast comes with YouView so be it.

    Brods
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  14. nvingo

    nvingo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Messages:
    3,244
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Location:
    Cambridgeshire
    Ratings:
    +816
    I find the image from my HDR-Fox T2 to be superb on a LG Full HD 32" LCD source via HDMI set to 1080p.
    However the remark earlier about the Youview box being different; apparently the HDR has onboard HDMI capable of 1080i and an extra HDMI circuit to handle the 1080p - the Youview has 1080p natively.
    So try the HDR with each of the 1080i and 1080p settings to see if there is any noticeable difference.
     
  15. brods

    brods
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    4
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sorry for the delayed reply. I have tried 1080I and 1080P but it didn’t help. Like you the vast majority of people seem to get good results from this box but it appears that a (very) few don’t, hence this thread.

    Incidentally I was talking to a friend who works in the industry. He said it looks as if it needs a “phase” adjustment but it’s normally done automatically on consumer equipment.

    As for as I know there is no way to adjust “phase” on either the TV or the box. Could there be something wrong with this automatic adjustment on a few of these boxes?
     
  16. RBZ5416

    RBZ5416
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2002
    Messages:
    19,286
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Ratings:
    +7,407
    I notice no difference between my Panasonic plasma's HD picture & that of the HDR. May be worth posting your location in case anyone local who has a good pic with the HDR is willing to help you do some comparisons before you send it back.
     
  17. petrev

    petrev
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,345
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    TX Mendip - DHR8205: FW4.22 - M1.35Blk
    Ratings:
    +1,015
    Hi

    I have just tested a recording of the BBC-HD Testcard made on three different FreeView HD PVRs. DigitalStream DHR, Humax HDR-T2 and FetchTV/Technica.

    Direct to a SONY 40HX703 (same HDMI input and by way of 3 identically set HDMI inputs) - FULL-PIXEL - Zero Sharpening

    The FetchTV and the HUMAX showed identical patterns in the bottom 3 grating areas. The DigitalStream looked slightly different until I remembered it was set to 1080p (Fetch and Humax at 1080i).
    Reseting the DigitalStream to 1080i made them all look identical.

    There is a noticeable pattern to the vertical grid areas so I decided to download what appear to be JPEG files of the original 1920x1080 Test Card.

    http://hub.tv-ark.org.uk/images/testcards/images/169_testcards/BBCHD_testcard_big.jpg

    When viewed at 100% on a 1080 monitor the HD Testcard does look to have less of a regular pattern imposed on the finer grids. However when a small part is magnified you can see that the test pattern is itself not a simple regular pattern. (JPEG artifacts probably not in the original broadcast image ?)

    Pic

    [​IMG]


    As FreeView is actually broadcast at 1440x1080 (FreeSat is native 1920x1080 as I understand it) the scaling process may well add to the non linearity of the pattern.

    EDIT: - Both now 1920x1080

    I also tried the three PVRs through an HDMI switching AV Amp and found that the Fetch would sometimes show marked colour moire fringing on the vertical grid patterns while at other times it had an image very similar or identical to the Direct input image. The DS and Humax ALWAYS showed this colour moire effect. Switching the DS to 1080p produced an image the same as the 1080i Direct. Switching the HUMAX to 1080p also removed the colour moire artefacts but did produce a slightly softer version of the pattern compared to the DS at 1080p - this was the same if the Humax was direct to the TV HDMI.

    So in conclusion - With my TV !

    Humax, Fetch and DS HD PVRs are identical at 1080i Direct HDMI.

    1080i through my AV amp is not the best as amp converts to 1080p by default and this introduces moire colour patterns. I could change Amp to 1080i but then the BluRay suffers !!!

    1080p on the HUMAX may soften the picture slightly. It uses a different method to upscale compared to the DS.

    I would use 1080i Direct to TV if possible with the HUMAX.

    Other different system results will no doubt vary.

    I would say that at 1080i there is no difference between the Broadcom boxes (HX and DS) and the STi (?) Fetch box.

    The only box I have seen that is really different is the 3View box that had massively over-sharpened output that was impossible to remove - I tried to watch an old Black and White movie (SD) and it was just horrible - all the men's suits and shirts had terrible colour moire patterns. I could replicate the effect by setting my TV Sharpening to 20 (0 - 30 Scale). There was also really noticeable mosquito noise but apparently some people love over-sharpened pictures.

    Pete
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
  18. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,618
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,208
    Freeview-HD is now 1920 x 1080 some of it in 1080p25. I don't know if the BBC-HD testcard is 1080p25 or 1080i50 (for a static image it wont make any difference, only the 5.1 location labels will be affected) I will try and record it for you and post a losslessly compressed frame grab.

    Incidentally the HDR FOX T2 gives a better picture on the HD channels than the Foxsat-hdr or the HDR-1000s (identical to the HD FOX T2)
     
  19. petrev

    petrev
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,345
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    TX Mendip - DHR8205: FW4.22 - M1.35Blk
    Ratings:
    +1,015
    Thanks Graham - I am out of date !

    Interesting that FreeSat is worse than the FreeView variants.

    Pete
     
  20. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,618
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,208
    Said to be down to the 1080p25 content (progressive is easier to compress for difficult content), despite the lower bitrate is does look better (The HDR-1000S is very close though). I will try and grab the content tommorow morning.
     
  21. petrev

    petrev
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,345
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    TX Mendip - DHR8205: FW4.22 - M1.35Blk
    Ratings:
    +1,015
  22. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,618
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,208
    It's mine but it's derived from 1440 x 1080 from a Foxsat-hdr (so scaled by the frame grab in Splash Pro Ex). Haven't done one since switch to 1920 x 1080

    Graham
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
  23. petrev

    petrev
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,345
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    TX Mendip - DHR8205: FW4.22 - M1.35Blk
    Ratings:
    +1,015
    Thought it might just be :smashin:
    Thanks Graham

    Grab from Splash Lite

    BBC HD Preview Loop - 1080p Testcard 1920x1080 native resolution
    BBC-HD-FV--Testcard-Native1920x1080 - Download - 4shared

    Close-up PNG

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
  24. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,618
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,208
  25. petrev

    petrev
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,345
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    TX Mendip - DHR8205: FW4.22 - M1.35Blk
    Ratings:
    +1,015
    Yes.

    Look at each block across side to side - You can see it is not a simple regular repeating pattern.

    Thanks - Looking at the blog you link to we have an answer . . .

    The close up is of blocks 5 and 6.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2013
  26. grahamlthompson

    grahamlthompson
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2006
    Messages:
    24,618
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Redditch
    Ratings:
    +4,208
    As promised

    https://www.adrive.com/public/aRXxpr/FreeviewHDTestCard.bmp

    Image 1920 x 1080 uncompressed bitmap

    Video Source Details ( 1920 x 1080 progressive - 1080p25)

    Code:
    Video
    ID                               : 101 (0x65)
    Menu ID                          : 17472 (0x4440)
    Format                           : AVC
    Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
    Format profile                   : [email protected]
    Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
    Format settings, ReFrames        : 4 frames
    Format settings, GOP             : M=8, N=24
    Codec ID                         : 27
    Duration                         : 6mn 42s
    Width                            : 1 920 pixels
    Height                           : 1 080 pixels
    Display aspect ratio             : 16:9
    Frame rate                       : 25.000 fps
    Color space                      : YUV
    Chroma subsampling               : 4:2:0
    Bit depth                        : 8 bits
    Scan type                        : Progressive
    Color primaries                  : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
    Transfer characteristics         : BT.709-5, BT.1361
    Matrix coefficients              : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177
     
  27. petrev

    petrev
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2007
    Messages:
    4,345
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    TX Mendip - DHR8205: FW4.22 - M1.35Blk
    Ratings:
    +1,015
    Thanks Graham.

    Exactly the same pattern as my PNG grab. Same from a DS DHR 1080p grab.

    A 1440x1080i grab is quite different - Block 4 is not resolved correctly and blocks 5 and 6 are worse than the 1920x1080p transmission.

    Pete
     

Share This Page

Loading...