HTPC - Pre/Pro Soundcard/Mobo Headaches - (1st Forum Post)

snowyweston

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Good evening all! Firstly, allow me if you will to introduce myself; my name's Kieren and I'm no stranger to these pages; for some years I've been lurking and reading threads here whilst staying over (mainly at) PCPro and Talk Audio.... of late I've been finding the threads here far more insightful when trying to get a grasp of technology, and so decided tonight I should give signing up a go. :)

I'm a simple man, with simple pleasures (who tends to yap on so tell me when I do) first off I'm no SQ connoisseur by any stretch of the imagination - nor am I the most financially endowed of types; but I do like what I like - and that includes harbouring a deep love of gear that'll let me rip my head off with bass, boasts detail enough to send shivers through me and more importantly have fun with it all.

And so I post today to seek advice on something that's been plaguing me - soundcards. For sometime I have been wanting to relegate my DVD player, PS2 and laptop being used as sources for my basic AV/Music lounge setup - and with a need for a home media server looming (I want my bedroom machine back) I've been thinking of building an all singing and dancing HTPC.

I had thought to start basic (build & upgrade as time goes on) but as I've read more & more into the non-benefits of even the most capable of onboard-audio mobos (no sub-management, noise-floors etc) I'm thinking something like an MSI 7411 isn't where I should be thinking - and instead, build my HTPC around a soundcard.

But even after reading seemingly endless threads & articles on the Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 7.1, Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 HiFi, Terratec Aureon 5.1, X-FI Elite Pro and today the Onkyo se-200 I'm still lost. :confused:

Whilst waiting to sell my Rotel I've thought more and more that I shouldn't - and instead do away with my Sony; and get a soundcard that could do my processing and outputting.... I've a fair amount of listening material and although I don't fully grasp the idea of full bitrate DTS, PCM, ASIO, - know that such decoding features will be needed....

I think my main annoyance when looking at all these cards has been that they all seem to still be employing 3.5mm stereo jack outputs - and after seeing the Alienware HDMS with it's 8 RCA outs - I've been wanting THAT card - although a million google searches later I'm still no closer to finding a card with such? Okay so RCA may not be the be all & end all, and if I do sell the Rotel optical/coaxial would still be nice enough for the Sony (which does take multichannel analog but my understandings/feelings are the 3.5mm connections would lose to the digital means for signal purity - no?)

So I guess after this rather wordy/fluffy ramble - the real question is:

What soundcards are people going for these days to use as pre/pro-to-AV -power-amps?


:lease:


NB: If this is the wrong section for AV/HTPC I'm sorry.
 
If you're just using it for a HTPC you have no need for a top end soundcard, you just want digital out, DD/DTS support. Which is pretty much anything. If your amp has DD/DTS decoding, and "DSP" modes you use, then no need for live encoding. You only want that if you're gaming.

Basically a £20 soundcard will do, just get one with decent driver support. I'm using a M-Audio Revolution, SPDIF out to Lexicon MC-1, DD & DTS works from DVD-Videos. Use FFDSHOW to stream unaltered audio (PCM/DD/DTS) to the digital out, then use winamp & ASIO4ALL to get unaltered PCM/DTS WAV support.

In fact if your motherboard has SPDIF digital out just use that.
 
Sorry - I should've said it's a Rotel RMB 1075 (I've been trying to get my kit list in my sig. but to no avail?) so purely a power amp - it's only got RCA into it's 5 channels, and so factoring in my active sub and the intent to throw away my Sony - is why I've been looking for 6-channel analog soundcard... (that has RCA outs over 3.5mm)

And the "HTPC" will also be running as source for my stereo use - and ideally, cabling configurations allowing, for my house PA so I was hoping for something that could hold it's own SQ wise.
 
I wouldn't run soundcard to a poweramp, risk of popping when pc switches on/loads windows or defaults to 100%.

A HTPC can't do multi-room, I guess you'll need seperate soundcards, but I have no idea how you'll link that stream to that soundcard. I'd just pickup a couple of Squeezebox's, that way apart from 5% CPU usage the people using the HTPC have no idea people are using it as a slim service.
 
I wouldn't run soundcard to a poweramp, risk of popping when pc switches on/loads windows or defaults to 100%.
I've read about pops & thumps - it's a concern since the Rotel's "always on" at full tap; my Coda's would melt! :mad: Thing is, the PC would never be shutdown - none of us shut down our (6) computers because we've all got house-share-dedicated folders (3x2 bed flats in a house) and since I was hoping to run XP MCE rather than run loads of different apps. (like I'm currently doing with win2K (foobar, vlc, sonicstage, itunes AND WMP:blush:)) I thought with it's "master control" that wouldn't be so much of a problem.....

A HTPC can't do multi-room, I guess you'll need seperate soundcards, but I have no idea how you'll link that stream to that soundcard. I'd just pickup a couple of Squeezebox's, that way apart from 5% CPU usage the people using the HTPC have no idea people are using it as a slim service.
Multi-room? No multi-room - all of the equipment is in my lounge - just used at different times for different moods.

....squeezeboxes aren't going to be much use for the video stuff though dude, I ruled them out a long time ago when I decided I wanted the media content off of my bedroom computer (that's serving on ethernet and wireless LAN to all and sundry at present) and onto this new HTPC which'd be directly connected to all the audio equipment.

Perhaps I'm just being difficult - and I appreciate your efforts to rationalise my rambling - I just really was hoping that someone somewhere had an idea of what soundcard, (or board expansion card) that's being used in this goregous little puppy.

Image removed, Using images from other servers without the hosting sites' permission

Image removed, Using images from other servers without the hosting sites' permission

http://www.alienware.com/product_detail_pages/hems/hems_features.aspx

If only I could afford it outright. :(
 
I'm using a Xonar with 4 3.5 to 2 phono's running into my Denon receiver which I'm using as a power amp. The Xonar equalisation software is good, though it doesn't offer quite as much control as the Denon (it can't do individual speaker equalisation). I would say the sound quality is better than using the reciever, however when at close to full volume with nothing playing you can hear some noise from the PC. At -20db which is my film watching listening volume it can't be heard at all. The only other problem is that the slightly better quality leads that I used in the onboard soundcard don't fit at the jack end into the Xonar as the row of outputs are very close together.
 
I'm using a Xonar with 4 3.5 to 2 phono's running into my Denon receiver
Do you not mean 2x 3.5mm to 4 phono's? Either way I'm confused - are you running quadraphonic?

The only other problem is that the slightly better quality leads that I used in the onboard soundcard don't fit at the jack end into the Xonar as the row of outputs are very close together.
Sorry but that's equally confusing - onboard souncard to Xonar? Or do you mean Xonar to Denon (the Xonar having the tightly bunched sockets)

I've just had a look at the Xonar (we are talking about the D2, the ASUS one no?) and it does look like a sexy card - but I just read a review of it at Elite Barstewards comparing it against Auzentech's Prelude and X-Meridian cards

http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/in...sk=view&id=468&Itemid=27&limit=1&limitstart=5

and they favour them over the ASUS for analog (which is what I'm still pitching for) - so maybe it's not the card for me.
 
Do you not mean 2x 3.5mm to 4 phono's? Either way I'm confused - are you running quadraphonic?

4 of (3.5mm stereo jack to 2 phono) cables, for up to 7.1 sound.

Sorry but that's equally confusing - onboard souncard to Xonar? Or do you mean Xonar to Denon (the Xonar having the tightly bunched sockets)

Before I bought the Xonar I used 4 higher quality cables from the analogues on the motherboard. When I upgraded to the Xonar I couldn't use these and had to use the cheaper, thinner cables that came with it. To be honest I think most sound cards have this problem.

I've just had a look at the Xonar (we are talking about the D2, the ASUS one no?) and it does look like a sexy card - but I just read a review of it at Elite Barstewards comparing it against Auzentech's Prelude and X-Meridian cards

http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/in...sk=view&id=468&Itemid=27&limit=1&limitstart=5

and they favour them over the ASUS for analog (which is what I'm still pitching for) - so maybe it's not the card for me.

The two cards seem pretty matched based upon a number of reviews around the web. Here is another where they can't really decide between http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews/preludeandxonarsoundcards/index.php. I bought it based on price really. It was about £25 cheaper than the Prelude
 
Do you not mean 2x 3.5mm to 4 phono's? Either way I'm confused - are you running quadraphonic?

Sorry but that's equally confusing - onboard souncard to Xonar? Or do you mean Xonar to Denon (the Xonar having the tightly bunched sockets)

I've just had a look at the Xonar (we are talking about the D2, the ASUS one no?) and it does look like a sexy card - but I just read a review of it at Elite Barstewards comparing it against Auzentech's Prelude and X-Meridian cards

http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/in...sk=view&id=468&Itemid=27&limit=1&limitstart=5

and they favour them over the ASUS for analog (which is what I'm still pitching for) - so maybe it's not the card for me.


i wouldnt take any notice of EB whatsoever as their RMAA testing is total trash and the review hinges on that.
 
4 of (3.5mm stereo jack to 2 phono) cables, for up to 7.1 sound.
Arh I see! :blush:

Before I bought the Xonar I used 4 higher quality cables from the analogues on the motherboard.
Do you mean these?
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=28726&doy=18m4
I had no idea there were higher-quality ones to buy! :eek:
The two cards seem pretty matched based upon a number of reviews around the web.
I think that's the problem - all of these cards seem to be pretty equally matched - and more than not it's the drivers/config. apps/bundled software&accesories that differentiate them - making it a PITA to evaluate with certainty which is the "better" buy.:(
 
Sorry - I should've said it's a Rotel RMB 1075 (I've been trying to get my kit list in my sig. but to no avail?) so purely a power amp - it's only got RCA into it's 5 channels, and so factoring in my active sub and the intent to throw away my Sony - is why I've been looking for 6-channel analog soundcard... (that has RCA outs over 3.5mm)

And the "HTPC" will also be running as source for my stereo use - and ideally, cabling configurations allowing, for my house PA so I was hoping for something that could hold it's own SQ wise.

You do realize the MSI 7411 has a 7.1 channel Pre-Amp outputs using RCA jacks, right?

Here are the specs that have been posted...

Amplified Card
5-Channel x 100W (AAIC100-5) Card
• 100W Peak, Channel Drive, 8Ω
• THD+N: <0.1%, 1kHz, 1W
• SNR: >105 dB
• Frequency Response: ±0.5 dB (20Hz to 20kHz)
• 93% Efficient Power Amplifier

Pre-Amp Card
3 Channel to 7 Channel Pre-Amplifier (AAIC7) Card
• High Quality Home Theater Performance
• Line-Level Outputs, 2.0Vrms
• THD+N: <0.01%, 1kHz, -6dBFS
• SNR: >110dB

You might want to reconsider your position on the MSI board.
 
You do realize the MSI 7411 has a 7.1 channel Pre-Amp outputs using RCA jacks, right?
You might want to reconsider your position on the MSI board.
The thing is besides from legit reviews - I can't find anything other than other forum threads talking about the legit reviews review of it!? :rolleyes:

Been to the MSI website and they've nothing (I can find) on it it either? It does look pretty swish - sporting the 780G chipset everyone appears to be applauding - but it'd be nice to get some more cast iron info on it (availability etc).
 
They were showing it at CeBIT in March. As I understand it, the board was an early look at it then. Therefore, I would guess that it was not in production yet. Since vendors like to launch stuff at major shows, the next one that makes sense is Computex (June 3rd - 7th). I would bet that they launch in June. That would give them 3 months (March to June) to finish the design and release to public. No other major shows the rest of the year with the exception of CEDIA in Sept and Digital Life NY in Oct/Nov, but those are not really worldwide shows like Computex.

It is probably worth the wait since it looks like it has really good analog audio, with 780 chipset and HDMI.

By the way, found this on X-Bit labs.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/editorial/display/cebit2008-3_6.html

Should make for a great HTPC.
 
It is probably worth the wait since it looks like it has really good analog audio, with 780 chipset and HDMI.
You're right - I think I might just suffer the laptop setup for a few more months; since it's shaping up to offer everything I'm looking for really...... shan't be bothering with the amp module mind - so hopefully it's reasonable priced.
 
I find using a good soundcard is better than spdif out. Both my X-meridian (now for sale on the forums (Shameless plug) and my lynx2b produced better sound via analogue.
 
I find using a good soundcard is better than spdif out.
That's what I was thinking / hoping to hear.

But one query that has come to mind is the lineout voltages - are they very variable between different soundcards? With the rather overkill power to hand of the Rotel it shouldn't really be a problem - but obviously a nice strong input is always preferable over a weaker one.

And do such worries concern optical aswell?
 

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