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HT200DM v HT300 with Extron scaler tomorrow

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by minimivic, Jan 30, 2002.

  1. minimivic

    minimivic
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    As title really.

    Got the HT300 coming along with the Extron scaler. Will compare it to the HT200DM that we have along with the Iscan.

    I'll let you know how it goes.
     
  2. Roland @ B4

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    From what I've seen of the Extron Scaller its a pile of poo. More suited to board rooms than home cinema but if they fix the motion stuff it has some natty features.

    Try some low speed horizontal scan shots with it and watch it jump.
     
  3. Jeff

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    I think this is a bit silly, the whole point of the HT300 is that it has a top quality built in scaler/deinterlacer. The Extron scaler isn't even that good, its very likely that the picture would be worse than without it.

    Jeff
     
  4. minimivic

    minimivic
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    It just happens that I have both units coming the same day.

    I dont intend to partner the HT300 with the Extron, unless its that good ( which by the sounds of it , it isn't. )

    I am more interested in the HT300 as a stand alone projector. The only problem is I think I might want 1. I really like the HT200DM which I have had now for about 4 months its been a really popular Projector for us. But me being me I want more resolution.
     
  5. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    A more interesting comaparison would be the Iscan and Extron with HT200DM v HT300.

    Sharky: If you've got your HTPC there can you play that through them both. I'd be interested to know how pluge pattern looks through the scalers in to both. Can you get good black and white levels? Are they easy to set together or is it hard to adjust each to your optimum.

    All the best,

    Gordon

    P.S. As Roland with the Extron....play some pans or video based stuff
     
  6. Roland @ B4

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    Sorry english would appear not to be my fist language at the moment. (I don't speak any other either)

    slow pans is what I meant. Or was her the composer?

    When I saw the extron mid last year it seemed to be able to manage 3:2 pull down untill the whole frame started to move then it jumped like crazy even at 72Hz on NTSC.
     
  7. minimivic

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    It seems my title is a bit misleading. it should read:

    "HT300 v HT200DM with Iscan, Extron or HTPC"

    Gordon - I'll see what I can do with the HTPC, but just got a new Radeon 8500 and am having loads of problems with it.
     
  8. minimivic

    minimivic
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    All I can say about the HT300 is "I want one".

    The HT300 is the new generation of DLP Projector using a true 16:9 (1280 x 720)DMD chip. It has a quoted 1100:1 contrast ratio which I think is a little optimistic but it is vastly better than the HT200DM at a quoted 600:1.

    The first thing that you notice is the added resolution available 921000 pixels (mirrors) compared to the HT200's 407000 (16:9 mode ). The inherent Halo effect that surrounds the screen on other DLP projectors is gone (This is something that can be masked on other units but it still annoys me).

    Sim2 have obviously done a lot of research into what Home cinema enthusiasts really want from a projector. The HT300 does everything very well indeed, it’s a true 16:9 projector with no halo, and the annoying rainbow effect has all but disappeared. The rainbow effect of DLP's is particularly fatiguing to me, my eyes tire after a short viewing time. The HT200DM does a very good job of reducing this effect, but the HT300 has a faster RGBRGB colour wheel which as well as reducing the rainbows further it also makes colours more accurate. The colours are very good, Red is very Red and not orangey like on other projectors. The Yellow is nice and true with only a slight tint of Green (hardly noticeable) the peak white test pattern is even and no visible hot spots on my 1.3 gain Vutec screen. The black test pattern shows how well this projector really works, its very difficult for any single lens projector to project black. The internal colour pluge also looked good to me.

    As standard the HT300 copes well with Video based material DVD's played via my Pioneer 737 looked stable and accurate. The picture is sharp but not too sharp, it has a filmic presentation and overall it’s superb. The Internal Faroudja deinterlacer works well on most material but on some scenes there is still slight motion artifacting. A common scene on the Gladiator scene 10 "Gladiator I salute you" when the camera pans into the village, there is slight jaggies on the walls of the village. The overall picture is superb and the black levels are very defined. Shadow detail is also vastly improved, you can actually see things in the dark areas of the picture now.

    Fed via the HTPC (a radeon 8500 graphics card) the picture once again jumped up to another level of quality. It now has an increased 3rd dimension and the picture looked a lot cleaner and sharper. My PC is not fully working so it could improve more with fine tuning. The panning was better than the standard faroudja. Could be an interesting combination when set correctly. It would have been nice to play a bit longer on this.

    Onto the extron DVS406 scaler. Quote from Roland "A pile of poo". I have to disagree. Are you thinking of the 7SC scaler? The 406 is the new generation on Extron scaler that has a new chipset and lots of cool features. After some initial setting up we settled on 1980 x 1080i as the best resolution for this combination. The Extron worked really well with the HT300 it gives the same sort of added dimension as the PC. There is a new model coming soon the 206 I think that will be about £ 2000 which will make it a worthwhile addition to any home theater that requires a scaler but for people that don’t want to use a PC. Overall a nice unit that makes the HT300 look really good, recommend you give it a try. It’s certainly better than the Old 7SC and it’s got nice Switching capability and a duel output.

    Unfortunately time ran out and we didn’t manage to use the HT200DM with the Extron. I would imagine similar results to the PC which is a lot better than progressive DVD or the Iscan.

    If you are looking at a high end 16:9 single lens Projector I would recommend the HT300. I should be looking at the sharp 9000 in a few weeks time, could be interesting to compare the two. There is a waiting list for the HT300's at the moment, think I better add my name to the list.
     
  9. Guest

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    I would be intrigued to know how much better than the 200dm the 300 is.
    You might be aware from other posts I have made,that I do not rate the 200dm whatsoever.
    But to recap,poor blacks,poor brightness,poor colour via component,poor resolution-very ..very..overrated-and for 6k?..no way Jose...
    The I-scan I think is really poor...
    But if theres a waiting list for the 300 at the 10k mark(vastly overpriced..)then it just adds credence to the old adage-a fool and his money are easily parted!!:D :D

    I am hoping the 300 is a MASSIVE improvement on the 200dm-even then,I would not be tempted unless it was round about the 5k mark(..its true worth I would suggest..)-not when the Sharp,Yamaha and new Marantz can be had for 5k-5.5k- if you shop around.
    ..And feedback from shows etc..in the u.s.- so far suggests that the Sharp and Marantz produce better pictures than the 300.
    Unfortunately,it seems like Sim are becoming the Bang and Olufson of the projector market...the pretty case(dyson hoover?)is selling it to the loads of money,no sense-not really home cinema fans..you know the type-aga cookers,wellies and range rovers(..even though they dont live in the f..kin countryside....) and little Nigel and Felicity at private school looking down on the other kids...

    ..still theres one born every minute I guess...:D ;)

    Doug
     
  10. rigman

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    Except the 2 grand price tag. :D :p :D
     
  11. Technophobe

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    I quite agree with the previous comments, Sim2 are in danger of pricing themselves out the market.
    I borrowed a HT200DM for an evening and thought it dim and pixelated.
    The Sharp 9000 at just over 5k uses TI latest 16:9 chip (1280x720) and gives a much brighter, smoother picture with less rainbows, and is in an altogether different league yet is around £500 cheaper!
    The similar specified HT300 is almost double the price at 10k!!
    Pure greed if you ask me.

    Techno
     
  12. GaryG

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    Doug

    I always find you posts thought provoking, but don't you think your ending comments were a bit OTT?
     
  13. Technophobe

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    Perhaps I was a little harsh, But would be interested to here how SIM2 can justify the price.
    Sure they have to make profit but nearly double the price of the competition, who presumably also add on a good margin!
     
  14. minimivic

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    Ok lets sum up.

    Is the HT300 better than the HT200DM. Yes it is, much better.
    It is about the same brightness as the HT200DM so if thats now bright enough then nor will the 300 be. The HT200DM get slated all over the place (its not perfect), but I didnt like it initially either. It seems to grow on you over time. Pixelation is an issue that the HT300 doesn't have problems with.
    Is the HT200 overpriced? Look at what you get. 2 year warrenty. 1 year pixel perfect warrenty. Completly sealed optical system. 6000hr lamp life approx. an RGBRGB colour wheel to eliminate rainbows. A well calibrated colour system out of the box. A projector that looks stunning in appearance. Is it overpriced? A bit maybe, but not too much. I think its worth it. maybe you should try living with 1 for a while. Is the HT300 worth £ 8995 again your decision on what value for money is. The Sharp 9000 should be about £ 9000 but its available on the net at about £ 2000 cheaper than our dealer price. So maybe it is good value for money. Whats the warrenty like from these mail order company's?

    I cant comment on the sharp as I havent seen 1 yet. Is the internal scaler as good as the faroudja in HT300?
    I have only seen the protatype HT300 the official is surposed to be better again ( we will see ). It a truely superb projector with easy installation and very user friendly.
    Given the choice I would buy an 8" CRT and have a dedicated cinema room, unfortunatly I cant do that. The HT300 fills the slot nicely unless the sharp is that much better.

    As for the Iscan, yes it is a bit poor. But it does a job well, and certainly help the HT200DM compared to a progressive DVD. The HTPC still rules for Value for maney.
     
  15. Technophobe

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    I paid £5,200 from a retail store with full sharp warrantee with the confidence that I can return it should I have any problems. Not sure where the £9k and £7k prices you mention come from.

    Regards


    Techno
     
  16. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Thanks Paul, interesting stuff.
     
  17. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The £9000 stated is the price Sharp and their distribution netwrok have set for the product. £7000 is a figure I've not seen from any retailer.

    Shasonic who you got yours from I believe are no longer selling at the price you state you got yours for. Mr D went there for a dem and was quoted more than £8000 I believe.

    IMHO the Sharp is a BARGAIN at under £6000 if you can get one for that sort of money.....it's less than the UK trade price! It's the best sub £9000 thing I've seen yet. I hope to see an HT300 in a few weeks though. It'll street around £8000-£8500 I'd guess.

    Gordon
     
  18. Technophobe

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    Very interesting Gordon, so what do you think is going on here?
    Odd they sell them for just over 5k one minute then increase the price by 3k the next.
    Who do you think is responsible for this, Sharp or Shasonic?
    Suspect the lack of competition in the UK hasn’t helped, since I read these cost under 4k in Japan.


    Technophobe
     
  19. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I really don't know. Sharp claim to have not sold Shasonic any projectors when you bought yours.....Shasonic deny selling them at that price to Sharp and the UK distributor.

    Frankly I'm with you. Folk think that dealers are greedy and at times they might be. In this case though I am unable to source this product to sell it at a price competative with personal importation. I actually think it's a damn fine projector for £8000 let alone £6000.

    Gordon
     
  20. minimivic

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    I'm with you Gordon. Its becoming the norn with lots of Projectors and A/V equipment. Cant compete with mail order. Why should we demo and advise people what to have just for them to go buy else where.
    I'll be interested to hear what you think of the HT300 when you see it.
     
  21. Xeonic

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    I didn't really want to quote this, as it doesn't sound too good out of context :( I'm investigating such a PJ for my next upgrade, and the thought of any dealer saying "show me your 9k for x before I give you a demo" horrifies me.

    The reason any dealer will demo is that out of 5 people that come in 1 will buy from that dealer, recommend to associates who will buy from the dealer e.t.c. I've done this myself. The knowledge gained from seeing a product at a good dealer cannot be obtained from any mail order company, and should not be underestimated.

    We all know that a few years ago projectors were primarily the domain of businesses and "high-end" HT customers. For these cost is not the primary concern. But it will be when comparing against a 6k PJ against, say a 2k TV, like it is now.

    If the HT300, or any other such PJ is justifiably good, I'd happily buy one, if I get a demo first! (which is where I came in
    :rolleyes: )
     
  22. minimivic

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    Xeonic,

    Don't get me wrong about the demo's. I have never, and will never turn anyone away even if i think they are taking the p***.

    I treat all my clients in the same way if I can. And go out of my way to get 2/3/4 projector in to do a comparison. I posted a while ago about VW10HT v Infocus v JVC Dila with Scalers and HTPC the main object was to show 3 customers the difference between then and what difference a scaler or HTPC can make.

    I hope this clears things up, and I'm sorry that you took it the wrong way.
    Get a demo of the HT300 its well worth it.
     
  23. Xeonic

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    :blush:

    Aww shucks Paul, I knew what you were getting at, and as I said before the "hands-on" experience of a good dealer is incomparable. I will try to get a demo soon, and hopeful A-B comparisons as well.

    Do you know if the introduction of the HT300 will mean an updated HT200DM is in the pipeline??
     
  24. minimivic

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    Who knows. Might be nice if we can get an HT200DM with the Faroudja chip set and the faster colour wheel. Or possibly the HT250DM.

    Only guessing though.
     

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