HT200 vs VW10HT - "stairstepping"

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Richard Harnwell, Dec 28, 2000.

  1. Richard Harnwell

    Richard Harnwell
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2000
    Messages:
    315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Colchester, Essex
    Ratings:
    +4
    I'm trying to decide between the Sony VW10HT and the Seleco HT200.

    I've just had a demo of the HT200 for the first time (New Arcam DVD, 6' screen) at my nearest Sevenoaks. I thought the black level was an improvement on the Sony (but not as much as expected), but I was very put off by what I believe is called "stairstepping".

    There was a very nasty jagged edge to any moving high-contrast diagonal lines. As soon as the objects involved stopped moving, all was well again. It was almost as if the moving images were shown in a much lower resolution.

    An example is a swinging ceiling lamp near the start of "Dark City".

    The dealer suggested that this was because the DVD player was non-progressive, and this seemed feasible, but I didn't recall the same problem on the VW10HT demo I had a while ago (also with non-progressive DVD player).

    Could the built-in Sony de-interlacer be better than that in the Seleco?


    Also, if what I described as "stairstepping" is something else, please let me know!

    Cheers,

    Richard
     
  2. Edgeyboy

    Edgeyboy
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    3,497
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Norfolk
    Ratings:
    +168
    The resoltion of the Ht200 is much lower than the Sony - remeomber that the Sony is also 16:9 so that increase in resolution is further exaggerated.

    I too compared the Seleco to the Sony and used Prog Scan R1 as my main test bed and the problem is still there.

    I cannot understand why both "What Video" publications have praised the Ht200 so much. Sure the Sony sucks in dust but this can be rectified with care. The picture is smoother than the Sony and colour rendition better - but also at the expense of brightness.

    The rainbow effect of the Ht200 is a major flaw in my opinion. Obviously it is not unique to the Ht200 but this does not excuse it. This is the problem with all products that use generic components such as the DMD.

    The Ht250 will improve the resolution - but at what price ? If it is between £7K and £8K, is it not getting a bit expensive. It will still have the colour wheel problems, and still have a 4:3 panel.

    Decisions decisions...!!
     
  3. ROne

    ROne
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2000
    Messages:
    781
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +8
    this stair stepping is what shocked me about the DLP machine, but I wonder this effect is created at the DVD stage and exagerated by the projectors.

    I have now a LG 3350 and the diagonals are a massive improvement over my wharfdale. A lot smother, the Anti-aliasing technology in the machine is a big improvement.

    I just got a MT1 and it surpassed all my expecations.

     
  4. Richard Harnwell

    Richard Harnwell
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2000
    Messages:
    315
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Colchester, Essex
    Ratings:
    +4
    Just thought I'd let everyone know the conclusion (for me) to this.

    I viewed the Sony again this morning (Rayleigh HiFi). I was lucky enough to see it partnered with exactly the same (non-progressive) Arcam DVD player and the same width screen as used with the Seleco.

    Again, I used the same DVDs (including Dark City).

    What a difference!

    The black levels were (as expected) not as good, but the difference was not as pronounced as I feared. Also, I did not discern the Sony's shadow detail to be any worse than the Seleco's (maybe even slightly better?).

    The difference that was most important to me was in the "stairstepping". It was nowhere near as pronounced on the Sony as on the Seleco, and there wasn't the big difference in (perceived?) resolution between moving & static images. What I found completely unacceptable on the Seleco was only just noticeable on the Sony.

    Also, my other-half pointed out (and I agree) that there is something far more psychologically acceptable about watching films (almost always widescreen aspect ratio) on a wide screen, than letterboxed in the middle of a 4x3 one.

    The Sony set-up has a "designed for home-cinema" feel to it. The Seleco (and 4x3 front projection systems in general) seem, to us, like a system designed for presentations that you occasionaly watch films on. The Seleco needs its better blacks, as you'll be seeing great big borders of them top and bottom (just about) every time you use it!

    I realise that this outcome is probably contrary to recent received opinion re. these machines, but I felt I had to let people know my thoughts.

    The Seleco owners say about the Sony "I couldn't live with those blacks"

    I now say about the Seleco "I couldn't live with that stairstepping and generally low-resolution look! (and yes, I am soon to be a Sony owner).

    (It would be a boring world if everyone thought the same :)).

    Happy new Year,

    Richard
     
  5. tiberious

    tiberious
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Nice one Richard - I`m sure you`ll be delighted by your purchase , the Sony is a fine machine.

    I should however,just point out that there is no reason why you have to use a 4:3 screen with the Seleco.I will be using a 7 ft wide 16:9 screen with mine - the aspect ratios are selectable , so if you are mostly watching widescreen material, use a 16:9 screen.The point to make here of course, is that in selecting a 16:9 ratio, you are not using the entire 800x600 panel (you use the maximum 16:9 ratio of 800x450 , so you lose 25% of vertical resolution - I stand ready to be corrected here !)

    Anyway, your "black bands " will be no greater on the Seleco than on the Sony - in fact both will have black bands most of the time, since the majority of films seem to use a ratio of 2.35:1.

    Enjoy the projector though - and don`t forget to show it off to your mates, I`m sure they will be green !!
     
  6. gotalifethanks

    gotalifethanks
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi

    YUP I to have the Sony projector and a 7ft Vutec 16X9 Screen.

    It is first class and I dont see the black lines anymore, few movies like Disneys Tarsan Toystory2 etc do use the whole screen.

    Just Accept that there will always be better than you can afford (well I can afford at any rate like the 30K Sony CRT).

    Enjoy

     

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice