HT Speaker upgrade: Kef vs B&W vs something else?

Built To Chill

Well-known Member
Congrats, shame on the centre, you'll notice a big improvement in films. I was same when I got mine setup, the clarity is fantastic. I would suggest in stereo just try a few tracks of varying genres you know well and just see what you think with bungs in out etc. I keep putting mine back in but just love the bass bump of them out. I would try a few bassy tracks if it sounds a bit too boomy for your liking then try the bigger bund with centre bit out.

Thanks a lot - makes sense. Listened to a fair bit more music now with my other half and it all just sounds really really good. Still on cloud 9 with these. So not felt a need for the bungs yet - perhaps because we’re not really cranking them. Good idea though to spend more time with bass heavy tracks I know well.

To be honest the delay to the centre has been a blessing in disguise. If I’d also had it today, it would have been movies all the way in testing. Has been really enjoyable discovering how much better our music setup is now.
 

Built To Chill

Well-known Member
@Built To Chill

Congrats, they look lovely! With movies you might not need bungs when speakers crossed at ~80hz and Audussey XT32 in play, the same applies if you use Audussey and stereo mode for music listening over pure direct mode which cuts everything from background! Also use the Audussey Editor App (20€) and limit the correction to 300-500hz (with midrange comp off) for all speakers with the slider so it won´t correct the speakers "natural sound" too much which was the issue most people had with Audussey and it`s two target curves before the app, rather it then corrects the room modes which fall somewhere below transit frequency (~300hz). Worth the extra cost.

Hope you can buy the subwoofer next! You aren`t really in a hurry with the center channel if you sit fairly centre to mains and have turned the centre off from Denon menu, naturally you would run Audussey again anyway so you would choose no centre.

Thanks - really useful advice! I do have the MultEQ app, and will plan to do exactly as you explain to threshold the Eq-ing at around 300-500Hz, and preserve the speakers natural sound elsewhere. Which I am immensely impressed with so far. I also think there are some weird reflections in this room, which I understand can give unexpected Audyssey results in the upper frequencies.

Just to clarify - I have already re-paid for the centre - Peter Tyson had one left in stock and also doing the 20% off - and will arrive tomorrow. But yes, a Sub will be next on my shopping list! Am very pleasantly surprised though how good it will sound in the meantime… more time to do some research to get the right one :thumbsup:
 

DaveWillo

Member
I now have the R5s :thumbsup:.

The R2C was broken on arrival, unfortunately. Something substantial was loose inside. Doug Brady were great about it, and a replacement (sadly from elsewhere) should arrive tomorrow.

They are indeed big! Glad I didn’t go for Q750s or R7s now! :laugh:

I love them. I’ve never owned speakers remotely of this quality before. Spent a few hours just listening to music. Night and day improvement feels like an understatement. I could go on and on about what I've been noticing. Everything sounds so much "real" than before. I thought it would be mainly about the bass but its everything. In particular, only because I know what it sounds like in "real life", I've been astounded by how real piano sounds coming from these.

I also played a few Atmos soundtracks in 4.0, with my Wharfedales at the back. Again, pretty blown away. So much more detail, presence, bass, and impact than I had before. Even at lower volumes and without a sub, this is instantly much more cinematic. I'm not even missing the centre yet, which I guess speaks to the wide dispersion of these things.

I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to experiment with placement forwards/backwards/toed etc? And whether to put the bungs in? Even in the limited space I've agreed to keep them, there feels a great many options... My problem is I'm not sure what I'm listening for to "fine tune" the sound, and it already sounds so good to me being such an improvement over my previous speakers. I'm sure there's lots online about this, but any quick tips would be gratefully received.

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Wow, I'm very jealous - beautiful looking speakers. The R5, R2C & R8A across the front would be my dream setup 😍.

I start a new job on 1st Feb, so maybe I'll finally treat myself, although I'm gutted the 20% trade-in offer is ending soon 😢
 

Built To Chill

Well-known Member
Wow, I'm very jealous - beautiful looking speakers. The R5, R2C & R8A across the front would be my dream setup 😍.

I start a new job on 1st Feb, so maybe I'll finally treat myself, although I'm gutted the 20% trade-in offer is ending soon 😢

Congrats on the new job! FWIW, I noticed there was a 20% off a year or two ago as well. So hopefully will come around again soon enough. Always worth negotiating with dealers too. Peter Tyson actually offered me 20% off on the R2C despite thinking I had missed the deal (it got extended by a few days to 9th Jan, which I then pointed out).
 

Built To Chill

Well-known Member
The replacement R2C arrived and got it hooked up. Front stage upgrade complete :)

Hardly anytime to listen this afternoon, before heading away for a long weekend. But still over the moon with these speakers.

One minor thing: I set the R2C as full band, the same as the R5s. I initially crossed it at 80Hz, assuming it made sense to let the R5s handle the bass. But dialogue sounded a little bright compared to what I was expecting based on the R5s. When I set the R2C full band, it sounded how I was expecting it to.

I'm guess this implies the R5s are not able to adequately fill out the lower frequencies on behalf of the R2c. Perhaps this might improve after running Audyssey (not done yet). But I'm also thinking it may be a mistake to treat the R5s as a replacement for a subwoofer, and I should keep all speakers full band until I actually get one.

Cheers very much again.

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rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
If you mean full range, don't do that set then to small 80hz

Also as rears diffused speakers may work better being that close..checkout bipoles. Kef make dipole r but not bipoles
 

gibbsy

Moderator
The R2C may be sounding a little bright because of your wooden floor, throw a duvet down in front of the cabinet and you'll notice a difference, that will probably mean that you'll need to buy a rug.

Also as rears diffused speakers may work better being that close..checkout bipoles. Kef make dipole r but not bipoles
The new R Series not longer carry anything other than direct speakers. There is no replacement for the old R800.
 

Built To Chill

Well-known Member
The R2C may be sounding a little bright because of your wooden floor, throw a duvet down in front of the cabinet and you'll notice a difference, that will probably mean that you'll need to buy a rug.

Thanks. I’ve got my sights on carpet eventually but yeah should be able to put a rug down in the meantime.

Thing is the R5s don’t sound bright to me in the same room. During a fair amount of critical listening on Thursday with 2 channel music, and with movies in 4.0. And the R2C didn’t either when I stopped crossing it over at 80Hz. Which made me wonder if it’s more about the lack of sub…

Or do you think the R2C will be particularly susceptible to the wooden floor, given where it sits?

I’ll experiment more when back in a couple of days.
 

Built To Chill

Well-known Member
If you mean full range, don't do that set then to small 80hz

Also as rears diffused speakers may work better being that close..checkout bipoles. Kef make dipole r but not bipoles

Thanks, just to clarify I don’t have a sub yet - probably a few months away min. So wondering best crossover settings for 5.0.

I have to have the R5s as full band, of course, since they have the lowest reach of anything connected.

Dialogue sounded a bit bright when I crossed the R2C at 80Hz, but that went away when I set it to full band, like the R5s.

I will keep the rear Wharfrdales crossed at 80Hz.

Thanks a lot for the tip re rears. One lucky thing about the Wharfedales is they are down (rather than rear) ported. But wide dispersion makes a lot of sense.

Incidentally- even these Wharfedales are a big upgrade in what I previously had as surrounds (Cambridge audio Min 20s) and that has also made a big improvmement to immersiveness in listening yesterday. I’ve scrimped on surrounds for ~10yrs thinking, they are not very important. I’ll be paying a lot more attention now to what I do eventually upgrade them to after seeing the difference yesterday.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks. I’ve got my sights on carpet eventually but yeah should be able to put a rug down in the meantime.

Thing is the R5s don’t sound bright to me in the same room. During a fair amount of critical listening on Thursday with 2 channel music, and with movies in 4.0. And the R2C didn’t either when I stopped crossing it over at 80Hz. Which made me wonder if it’s more about the lack of sub…

Or do you think the R2C will be particularly susceptible to the wooden floor, given where it sits?

I’ll experiment more when back in a couple of days.
"there is a subtle high frequency increase above about 2kHz"

Kef likely did this on purpose vs. other models. The grilles shouldn´t be used ideally as we can see negative effect, naturally they would look better without them but up to you. R2C is measured by Erin using the NFS scanner (100 000$) which Kef most likely has too, most big companies does. Erin made video review and also written if intrested. You can run full correction for this speaker and choose different high frequency roll off with the Audussey app if it would be too bright which is doubt when you have everything optimized with sub in play also.


 

Built To Chill

Well-known Member
"there is a subtle high frequency increase above about 2kHz"

Kef likely did this on purpose vs. other models. The grilles shouldn´t be used ideally as we can see negative effect, naturally they would look better without them but up to you. R2C is measured by Erin using the NFS scanner (100 000$) which Kef most likely has too, most big companies does. Erin made video review and also written if intrested. You can run full correction for this speaker and choose different high frequency roll off with the Audussey app if it would be too bright which is doubt when you have everything optimized with sub in play also.




Thanks a lot. I’d seen this too before buying. I agree - I am sure all will be fine when running eq-D with sub in play. And all currently is fine (excellent even) when passing the full frequency range to each of my LCR front three. The only reason I’m considering tinkering is incase this will “overwork” the AVR while I’m waiting to get my sub.

But this is off topic - ie optimal AVR settings for 5.0 - so may start a separate thread seeking advice. Doesn’t seem like there is much consensus online.

Many thanks again all in anycase.

I am made up with these speakers. It’s still sinking in the magnitude of upgrade. By far the biggest change I’ve ever made to my system. Very excited to spend many many more hours getting to know them.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks a lot. I’d seen this too before buying. I agree - I am sure all will be fine when running eq-D with sub in play. And all currently is fine (excellent even) when passing the full frequency range to each of my LCR front three. The only reason I’m considering tinkering is incase this will “overwork” the AVR while I’m waiting to get my sub.

But this is off topic - ie optimal AVR settings for 5.0 - so may start a separate thread seeking advice. Doesn’t seem like there is much consensus online.

Many thanks again all in anycase.

I am made up with these speakers. It’s still sinking in the magnitude of upgrade. By far the biggest change I’ve ever made to my system. Very excited to spend many many more hours getting to know them.
Yeah man lot of tweaking and testing to do with the bungs, avr tweaks etc. Good times.
Keep the mains large, rest small and bump up the crossovers 80-100hz. It will be another dramatic change when you get your first real subwoofer. It will be worth every penny as it takes your system to another level completely so don`t cheap out this time! What usually happens is you want to watch all the movies again if you collect some blurays. :)
 

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