1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

HS50 quick test result

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by GrahamMG, Feb 13, 2005.

  1. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    As I said I would post when I had sat with the Sony HS50 for a couple of days, here goes.....

    Firstly I must say that this is a simple post as great detail isn't going to be of much use as it will open up the whole DLP/LCD debate once more, I am just being objective here.

    The Sony appears a good price performance compomise, it is of reasonable quality in construction and has enough inputs to suit most.

    The lens is suitable for its main purpose (around the 6-7ft screen image diagonal range) but does suffer less than perfect optics which becomes irritating at 3Mtr and beyond due to abborations (distortions mainly) and lack of focus at the corners but considering the price again, reasonable.

    The units image is particularly dark and stray light killing the colour balance massively, this projector is for blacked out rooms only really, this I assume is to try and wring a decent contrast ratio out of the design, blacks are improved over other LCD's I have witnessed but if I was being honest it isn't "black" by a fair way. I would have thought a firehawk/greyhawk type screen would be essential (I used Firehawk which wasn't a perfect match but better than anything else I tried).

    Viewing distance has a part to play here as well as sitting at anything less than 1.5x the screen diagonal resulted in viewable pixels and highlighted the lack of focus across the screen. I wouldn't say screendoor was banished either..... Viewed from at least 1.8x things improved.

    It was quite quiet which is nice.

    HDMI input was hopeless, I found it noiser than I would have expected and blanking jezzzz......Oh dear oh dear what are Sony playing at, the VGA input was fine.... Frankly amazed that it could be sent out like that a word with Sony confirmed that this was being addressed rapidly so more more comment on that for the time being. No idea if I can do this remotely though, Sony tend to not send out firmware fixes to most. Even "Sony Assist" members might be struggling....

    Colours seemed notably better than other like priced LCD's and a whole heap better than anything Panasonic do....
    BUT....... a 4805 InFocus (only £1k now) gives a better picture overall and an H57 or SP5700 is in another league despite having a lower res panel.....
    panning and other cross screen movement shows some smearing but it is again improved on other like price LCD's

    So all in all a worthy attempt and of course the only choice for the minority who suffer from DLP type issues at this price break.

    When Sony fix the current firmware issues (assuming they can!), it should be a reasonable alternative to the crop of mid price DLP's but its picture performance isn't going to worry DLP technology just yet on colour definition or contast, black level or light output.

    The best comment was from my 11 year old, he came running in to so say the pj was broken as the picture was "dishes", when I asked he looked at me in that 11 year old way and said "oh silly you, its all washed up"! Addmittedly this was compared to the Barco CV80 also nailed to the ceiling but the difference was huge when I powered up the beast just now (and so it should be frankly), after three days of fiddling with the Sony I thought I had got it pretty good, just goes to show how easy it is to think something is better than it actually is until you compare it with other things.

    I have the feeling that a "next generation" model will be out before the end of the year.

    Fireproof suit now being donned.....
     
  2. Jules

    Jules
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2000
    Messages:
    5,073
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +752
    As an HS50 owner myself, I agree with most of what you say.
    Indeed, the blacks are not black and people should not be too influenced by the hype without seeing it first.

    However, I've owned 2 previous LCD projectors before, and I can say that the Sony's contrast has reached a point where it is no longer a weakness. It is bettered by a good DLP, but no longer a problem.

    For people who suffer with DLP rainbows, it is the best option on the market currently. The fact that is is very quiet, detailed and installation flexible, is just icing on the cake.
     
  3. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    I am glad an HS50 owner took what I said in the manner of which it was written. Your reply is also very much in keeping with my thoughts and comments.
    I would add that the choice of screen (proper screens guys not painted MDF or walls :lease: ...) is going to be significant to the end result performance.
     
  4. David_of_Surrey

    David_of_Surrey
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2004
    Messages:
    200
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +6
    Would it be possible to measure the colour of the black? I'm guessing run up a paint package (using the projector to project the paint package display onto a screen) then a using colour adjust or similar change the colour of an object until it exactly matches projected black, then read of the RGB colours of the object ie R20 G30 B 22.

    or have I missed something obvious?
    Dave
     
  5. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,577
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Bristol.
    Ratings:
    +321
    Good post.

    Having had my Sony HS50 about a week and a half I have started spotting some weaknesses with it. Especially the dim image. As you say, in black out this is fine but not ideal as I live in rented accomdation and I cannot turn the flat into a cave. To my eyes, it just seems to lack punch and I am comparing it to my Panasonic AE300.

    Also, to me, the picture seems to have a lot of on screen noise. Maybe its down to individual disks but does seem to exhibit more noise. Perhaps this is due to the 720 panel???

    I have also contaced Nennix as since fitting my screen I as have noticed uniformity issues. The left side of the picture from my seat when viewed is overtly red, whilst the right hand side is blue/green. Quite annoying and very noticable to me. Nexnix are discussing this with Sony to see if it can be tweaked out.

    However, I am more than happy with the black level and the contrast.

    In conclusion, if the uniformity issue cannot resolved I suspect that a replacement machine may be in order. I must stress that I only noticed this when viewing onto the screen rather than a wall and I was not looking or on a fault finding excercise :lesson:

    Cap :)
     
  6. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Dave.

    Measuring all this next week when I prise the Milori gear out of work and do a calibration check. I must say though that viewed in isolation the black level looked OK, it was only when I fired up the DLP that I realised that black was no-where near "black"........
    As far as colour/focus etc. I suppose the cost of the unit has a lot to do with this, you get what you pay for...
     
  7. Tempest

    Tempest
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Messages:
    5,869
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Horley, Surrey
    Ratings:
    +1,286
    Thanks for the honest review.

    Like many things people buy, I always get the feeling that some will just not admit that they new toy? is anything less than perfect.

    I annoyed a shop keeper yesterday who had loads of expensive LCD TV's running, by asking him why all the pictures looked rubbish when you looked at them from quite close up (a few feet away) he said you not supposed to be looking at them that close!

    The comments AGAIN about dull picture is almost the nail in the coffin for me getting the SONY.
     
  8. PJTX100

    PJTX100
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    8,129
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +562
    Graham
    Thanks for the review. You obviously have much experience of these things, and it's interesting to get direct comments from people who have 1st hand experience of all these machines and can therefore make genuine comparative remarks. It's amazing how opinions differ though.

    I think you are saying that the Sony is better, say, than the Panny 700 (and all other comparably priced LCD's) but doesn't match the Infocus 4805.

    Yet I'm reading this very second the group test from the Feb edition of Home Cinema choice who put Infocus 4805 behind both the Sanyo Z3 and the Panny 700. Presumably if the HS50 would have been in the test, that would have been rated better still?

    Though everyone obviously has their own differing opinions, this is a dramatic difference of opinion between people who have had a first hand opportunity to compare these machines. :confused: ...PJ
     
  9. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,577
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Bristol.
    Ratings:
    +321
    PJ,

    This seems to be the subjectivity of owning a PJ.

    As you say, Graham obviously knows his stuff and is therefore more likely to see what the untrained eye will not - which is why I think reviews differ. My original review of the 50 was more about the plug and play aspect of the Sony as I have never been a tweaker, just a watcher.

    However, as before, my HS50 seems to have developed an odd clour fault/issue that may be resolved :(

    Cap :)
     
  10. mikeaitch

    mikeaitch
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2001
    Messages:
    1,583
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Stoke
    Ratings:
    +55
    I agree to an extent as light control is definitely a concern although I can't agree with the overall summary vs cheaper dlps
    The Sony responds extremely well to tweaking- and also to good sources

    I defy anybody to look at a well sorted HS50 picture and call it inferior to the entry level DLPs- have a look at Urban T's site for an idea of what can be achieved esp thru vga :smashin:

    It won't suit everyone though

    I don't see rainbows either :smashin: for me, it's the best option bar mid range dlps

    When I can afford the next step, it probably will be dlp though...
     
  11. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Careful guys about picking bits out of my original post and not quite carrying the meaning across.....

    The Sony is better than the Panny AE700 assuming its current issues are nothing more than firmware fixes, I did say that "overall" the 4805 gives a better picture, this includes taking into account normal viewing ambient light and colour/black level etc. etc.... I had tweeked the Sony a fiar bit from out of the box spec adn was quite happy with it until I kicked the other DLP's in, the 4805 was closest in performance but the others just walked away with overall quality......

    Magazine reviews, well being kind these people have been known to write what the advertising revenue decides...... I'm not saying they all do this but you can see a trend with the amount of subscriptions we carry at the office.... In fact we play the which one will win game each month purely on advertising and marketing "do's", we are not often taken by surprise, in fact only once was I moved to make a comment that the reviewer had actually done his job well (when the CV70 won the HCC projector of the year) as the review did actually resemble reality at the time.

    As I said I had all these pj's nailed up over the past couple of weeks and even changed screen materials to see what happened, the room can be pitch black or rather more resembling a normal living room, some may say that is a lot of trouble to go to, I'd say I was being fair.....

    I have many types of source at my disposal and the better the source material the less the projectors suffer, feed any of them the 1080i American women playing there version of football and they all, suddenly look great :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

    Trouble is that when you go looking for things with a critical eye you always find something which is then very difficult to ignore...... I suffer for my art, I even see plenty of faults in a Barco Cine9.........

    Oh and by the way all projectors mentioned beat hands down the new Sharp Titanium LCD's we have just bunged up in the new govenors area (only thing available in the timescale), I rarely report back to the distributor such negative comments.... 32" and 37" versions with off air material (freeview naturally), my comments are basically unprintable.....

    Anyone got their HS50 firmware done yet as it is coming?
     
  12. Neelix

    Neelix
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Interesting Graham, you sound like a veteran of projector technology... but I have to disagree on a few things :) The 4805 is a good budget DLP (rainbows/eye strain aside) but it is in no way better than the HS50. In fact I would be so bold to say the 5700 doesn't hold anything above the HS50! OK, the easy stuff... it is super quiet, good connections, high definition, very good contrast i.e. in real terms not just quoted figures. SDE is less of an issue than the 4805 and comprable to the 5700. I can sit 9ft away and watch a 6ft image without any perceptable SDE (watch the content not look for the pixels in certain frames) which is simply fantastic. I do not feel the HS50 lacks black levels... sure they could be better but they are very good in that you don't start thinking aloud why isn't the space in Star Wars black? The contrast levels are fantastic, I don't care how they do it... it works and I found them better than the 4805, 5700 and H77 which actually left me a little disappointed. Colours, well that depends what floats your boat as some like it strong with high contrast and others dialed way down with a somewhat neutral flavour. The HS50 will give you that cinematic feel if that's what you like... I know I do ;) In terms of brightness, yes it can be a little dim dependant on content. For computer stuff you can have daylight, lights etc... it is still highly visible. For tv events such as sport, news etc, I have no problem with ambient light in terms of it being highly watchable... I watched 24 on Sky last night while eating dinner i.e. lights on, sure it was better when we turned the lights off but they didn't detract from the screen enough to be a problem which is saying something for me! Watching DVDs in certain ambient lighting may affect enjoyment dependant on your contrast and black levels. For me to truly enjoy a DVD with the HS50 then I would want to very low light but realistically none at all.

    I am far from being a real qualified audiophile but I certainly count myself as audiophile pleasure seeker! There are better projectors of course, but to my mind it has no inherent weakness (HDMI cropping is a nuisance but not an issue) and there are no colour wheel problems. I can be confident in my opinion that there is nothing better for the same price, DLP has it's place but compared to the current crop of LCDs, not at this price level.
     
  13. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    I would agree that DLP's at this price are not my favourite things either and they should concentrate on the middle grouund and above whre they can properly show the technology for what it is worth. All this I have said before.

    I am not disagreeing that this particular LCD has come a long way which is why I set one up but switching betwen pj's does show up what I refer to, of course if you can't do that then you won't see it..... The HDMI business is unforgivable when this technology is being shoved in everyone's face, as many have also found the VGA input has far less issues and makes you wonder how long this model will last before being superceded as this is far too common on models in this price range, i.e. fix the problems (or simply improve the technology) with a new model and not help the existing customers..... Time will tell.....
    By the time you get to 5700, H77 etc territory there is a noticable jump in quality and by the time you get to SIM2HT300link CV80 etc. then the picture really is getting pretty good and the arguement shifts to comparisions between DLP and the smaller CRT's..... When we get to HT500Link, well, with a decent feed it is excellent..... Horses for courses.....
     
  14. onefivenine

    onefivenine
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2003
    Messages:
    3,351
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Ratings:
    +647
    Graham,

    You have almost talked me out of a 'blind' purchase of this PJ.

    However, you did describe it as "the only choice for the minority who suffer from DLP type issues", which to me suggests you judge it better than the other LCD manufacturers can offer.

    My main issues with the (on paper) HS50 are the OVERSCAN, and BRIGHTNESS. I've got a 3m throw.

    What's the best alternative LCD in the same price range?
     
  15. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,300
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Surrey. UK.
    Ratings:
    +2,015
    Dave of Surrey,

    If you want to see what the overall colour balance is like, use a test disk like Avia or Digital Video Essentials and put up a ramped grey scale - it wil have 11 bars (or more) of grey running from black to white. Grey is merely different intensities of white, so a perfect colour balance should always show grey. If it has more of a colour, then it will show up as a colour tint in the bars somewhere. It won't always be in all the bars either, it may be at one end or the other, and that's where Colorfacts or similar comes in useful to balance the colours correctly.

    Although you may be supplying the projector with black, it could be displaying black with unbalanced colours, and that could be a fault of the projectors calibration (the individual RGB brightness levels are wrong for that particular end of the grey scale).

    You will need an external measuring device to read the colours from the projector either directly from the lens, or off of the screen. The measuring device has to be able to see light in the same way as the human eye otherwise it will not be able to balance them correctly for human vision. This is where products like Milori's Colorfacts or Ovations OpticOne are very useful. Unfortunately they're not cheap.

    There is a cheaper alternative though - SMART III which uses a lightmeter and RGB gels to take readings. This method works best if the software is taylored to a specific projector so that the calculations on the data spreadsheet can be used to accuarately interprete the readings. It's slower and more time consuming than the other two methods, and works well at low light levels, so will be able to tell you if your black level is colour balanced. CF and OO tend not to be able to read below a certain level very well (30ire normaly), so SMART does have its advantages.

    Gary.
     
  16. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Lets level this up a bit, NEVER EVER buy blind........NEVER EVER take anyone else's word for it, ITS YOUR MONEY and you are the ONLY one looking at the picture, if your happy then there is nothing wrong with it. It is true that other LCD's are not as a complete package as the SONY HS50 (this week!), people have also said this about Pannasonics, Epson's and Toshiba's over the course of a year, technology moves very quickly in this cheap LCD projector market, trouble is at this cost level manufacturers expect you to upgrade to the newer model really.......
    All I am saying is that the hype on this SONY model is not entirely justified on a performance basis which many owners also seem to be noticing now...... Its good but not great but then what do you expect for £1500??? Its good for £1500......

    The HDMI overscan/blanking and the light output are issues (name me a projector that doesn't have an "issue") but with careful room lighting and a decent screen (which may cost more than the projector......!), the SONY can produce a very watchable image, I'm just not wetting my pants in excitement :D

    The efort Chris made with his home cinema setup has paid off, he is not going to argue that a SIM2/CV70 for instance isn't a step up, he made the effort to get the basics right and that will put him in good stead for any future upgrade, other people who are using their living room as a home theatre with all its attendant compromises won't get the same result and it is in this environment that any cracks in a pj's performance start to appear......

    After yet more playing last night with 1080i material via an HTPC and even a £5k scaler, the picture is good, its still dark but good and apart from the innherrent smearing on fast pans (it is an LCD after all) it is now a match for the 4805 I suppose in many people's eyes, other lesser material (SKY!!) without any post processing can look a bit rough around the edges..... I had ten people over last night and 9 still perferred the picture from the DLP but as I showed them the SONY first they would all have happily watched the footy on it...... The better the source the less the performance of the pj seems to matter.
     
  17. PJTX100

    PJTX100
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    8,129
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +562
    Seemingly good advice, and when you are spending 1K+ it seems folly to go out on a limb and purchase something you've never seen in action. Yet, I wonder how many people have bought a HS50, AE700, Z3, TX100, 4805 etc etc blind and then sent it back?

    I'd be willing to bet not many.

    Even after the wow factor fades, and they start to see the limitatons, they'll still probably think that the size and PQ is well worth the money. I certainly do for the TX. And if I'd have bought the AE700, Z3 etc etc or the 4805 (which looks a bargain now - wonder why the price is falling? :) ) I'm sure I'd have the same opinion.

    Anyway, enough of my ramblings... As I said earlier, the fact that you take the time to pass on your experience is much appreciated, I just feel when you throw in a sweeping statement like "the only choice for the minority who suffer from DLP type issues" it undermines the rest of your message...PJ
     
  18. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,577
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Bristol.
    Ratings:
    +321
    Sometimes buying blind is the only option regulars here have. For instance there are only three AV shops in Bristol that stock and demo projectors. As another example refer to the thread from Comer, the ritz and co. about the evident problems of buying a PJ over in Ireland.

    Not saying that it is right or wrong, just unavoidable.

    Cap :)
     
  19. Neelix

    Neelix
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Graham, I think you are overstating your professional opinion. I cannot believe for one minute people who are spending £1500 on a projector consider it cheap in the first place or think of it as a temporary solution until they upgrade to the new model next year! It may be cheap in projector terms but it is certainly not cheap in audio-visual terms i.e tv's, amps, hcpc...

    The HDMI is an issue of sorts but not a major one (a fix is available from Sony now). Given that there are barely incremental differences between VGA and HDMI quality it is low on the agenda. Sure when HDCP content filters through then we will definately need HDMI but as I say Sony has a fix. In terms of the HS50 providing a watchable image, once again I think you are overstating you professional opinion. You are fortunate to have seen many high end DLP and CRT projectors which offer a better overall picture but are clouding your opinion. For the average Joe on here who knows nothing the HS50 will be truely awesome, for those that know a bit it is more than watchable it's fantastic. For the pro's it is of course waiting to be picked apart...


    I spent may hours with the 4805, 5700 and about an hour with the H77. They are all good but if you suffer from rainbows and eye strain then they are a non starter. The 4805 provides a lovely image but suffers from DLP dithering and relatively poor contrast. When compared to the 5700 I couldn't honestly say there was much in it therefore making the 4805 a better buy imo. As for HD content, well the resolution isn't there... it looks very good but lacks the detail that the HS50 can provide due to higher native res. As for the H77, well I enjoyed the picture on that very much. It certainly added more depth in certain Gladiator scenes and was slightly easier on the DLP sufferers eye. That said, having compared the HS50 with the H77 I struggle to see what the extra £1800 is really giving me in terms of PQ and enjoyment, even disregarding the inherent colour wheel problems, but then I'm not a professional which I guess is my point ;)
     
  20. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    I knew I would need my fire proof suit eventually.....

    Lets leave rainbows and eye strain out of this as it is out of our control.....

    I've never used the words "professional opinion", I might however say that 25 years in the business might lead people to believe that, controversial certianly, honest always.....

    Frankly £1500 on a source that can provide a 2Mtr plus image is I'm afraid classed as the lower end of the scale cost wise for what you get (bang for buck etc.), a 32" CRT TV cost nearly that not so long ago.... and with respect a half decent amp/surround processor, speakers and HTPC's are all well into that territory if you stand any chance of doing the thing justice. It is not a cheap hobby as I am sure you know.....

    HDMI should not be an issue at all, HDMI sells units as that is what the market has been told to want, if it is flawed one has the right to mention it, I have said that SONY is apparently fixing it, would you like to comment on how this is done for existing users (I'll wager it is inconvenient for the customer!)

    The HS50 does indeed produce a watchable picture, it is not the standard by which everything else should be judged though although in LCD terms at this price it could well be. I have already heard of several people that after the initial "wow" have started to notice the limitations of the £1500 device and want more...... That is the manufacturers job after all......

    As I said if your happy with your purchase then that is all that matters just don't kid yourself that there isn't better (a sad expensive fact of life mate)

    Hi def material at 1080i (or 720hp which some may argue amounts to much the same, jury's out on that one) does make a difference to low res panels, far more than I personally thought possible. For instance I took a 848 x 480 NEC MP3 plasma and fed it freeview, sky, DVD, then 720p and 1080i (downscaled naturally), there was a marked jump in quality at each step (720p and 1080i looking the same really).... For now and the foreseeable future anything more than a 1280 x 720 res would appear not necessary really (I'm NOT saying I agree though) and 1024 x 576 panels will tumble in cost as we are now seeing...... I think we all know why......
     
  21. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,577
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Bristol.
    Ratings:
    +321
    Graham,

    No need to don the flame suit.

    Thanks for posting an honest, informative appraisel of the 50. It is what all regular poster crave on here. What I do find interesting that even now the faults only start to show themselves after a couple of weeks of ownership. Somewhat endemic of the PJ industry??

    Cap :)
     
  22. Neelix

    Neelix
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Graham, no ned to don the flamesuit ;) I'm not knocking your opinion I'm simply trying to put it into context for the "average" user/buyer. I don't happen to agree with you on the quality of the 4805 or even higher DLPs especially when compared to the HS50 but that's another matter and is only my opinion. I assumed you were a profesionnal given your signature line therefore I can understand why you said the things you did but felt the need to centextualise that's all.

    Regarding the rainbows eye strain etc, I agree they are not always part of the equation but they were for me and are for many therefore it can be and is a big issue for some. My first choice was actually a DLP RPTV but was put off by the poor PQ on certain feeds, unacceptable dithering and a somewhat limited viewing angle (rainbows appeared less with RPTV). I have now purchased a plasma and the HS50 to get the best of both worlds. Unfortunately it would seem that the colour wheel technology is somewhat flawed not that it doesn't produce an excellent picture but that it can produce unpleasant side effects... LCD has none of those.

    The advantage of having a high resolution over cheaper DLPs is huge. It enables the PJ to be used for better PC gaming, internet browsing and other desktop uses and there are now more and more high definition films being released using the WMV9 codec. BluRay and HD DVD are only around the corner and Sky HD is 12 months away. I think we all agree that HD content looks better than SD even if there isn't the native res to exploit it... but a high res projector can really show it off to the max

    In terms of the cost of AV equipment well that is obviously a personal choice limited by needs and budget but whether spending £3000, £5000 or even £10000 on an AV setup, it is an expensive hobby! I personally do not believe you have to spend thousands on each aspect to get the "best quality". Think of a bell shaped curve... I have a 5.1 Panasonic system which I enjoy greatly but it can be improved on for sure. I could spend thousands but then again I already enjoy my movies and sport through the current setup at least to the extent that throwing a few more thousand at it would only increase the enjoyment by an incremental few percentage points. As a professional you may disagree as your requirements are much higher. A good analogy would be car choice. Now I assume if you drive you are happy with your current choice of car... but unless it is a Ferrari, Bentley or top of the range Mercedes then you are missing out. By how much is down to you as you could be equally happy with a nice Alfa, Audi, Subaru Impreza... they have all the gadgets, are very refined and can achieve 90% of what a Ferrari can do except for the kudos. At least with certain cars you can have kudos but if I bought a 3 chip DLP nobody but me would give a toss and to be honest while the picture would be much nicer it would still only add a small amount of enjoyment. The intial leap from 32" CRT to a 80"+ projector is where the real quantum leaps for enjoyment are to be found and it doesn't take state of the art technology or thousands of pounds to do this. Do I think the current 16:9 LCD projectors are better than the cheaper DLPs? Yes for all the above reasons. Do I think the more expensive DLPs are better than the current LCDs? Yes, except for the flawed colour wheel, but is it worth the extra £2000+... to my mind no.
     
  23. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Remember I only said "overall" regarding the 4805 there are areas where it isn't that good either......It is "only" a "grand"......
    My sig line is there for the obvious reason that my employer carries a fair bit of weight and I can't be seen as recommending anything offically, it would land me in bother......

    Like I said I can't cure people of that, the techology is only flawed (or to be fair, "more flawed") on the cheaper models, I don't hear of many complaining of the SIM2 HT300 price range jobs.....These lower end DLP's are quite cheap and something has to give I suppose..... LCD also, as you know, has side effects as well just they are performance related not illness inducing.....

    I think it is diminishing returns on resolution currently, it is a big cost step and the law of returns applies. WMV9 is most popular at 720p (file size I suppose) but watching a 720p and a 1080i clip of the same thing (depending on the scaling engine used) isn't vastly different regardless of max res panels or CRT's, granted it is better on 720 panels but not as much as people may wish to believe (I refer to our test with 480 panels and 576 latterly). I was surprised that the difference between SD and HD was marked on such low res panels and less so as you moved up..... I've always felt it should be the other way round, likewise 1280 x 720 triple chip pro jobs and 2k x 1k triple chip pro jobs, it wasn't night and day differences....

    Don't get me started on cars we will be here all night :rotfl: Focus 130BHP Diesel and a (well over) 400BHP V8 MGB........ I won't agree that the current 16:9 LCD's are "better" than the 16:9 cheaper DLP's though...It is a personal thing, tis your money etc.......The colour wheel isn't that "flawed" if implimented properly, is it worth the extra £2k or more, well if you haven't got the dosh the answer will be NO of course, people that have the dosh might not agree as they generally get rich by being careful what they spend on, if they couldn't see or hear a difference they wouldn't..... It is diminishing returns though certainly. Of course we have £3k LCD TV's that are well beaten by £1600 plasmas...... Never said all this was easy mate......
     
  24. Misty

    Misty
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    111
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Hinton
    Ratings:
    +5
    Have owned an HS50 for a short while now and feel I need to interject. I worked on a very expensive project a year ago which appears in December 2004 issue of Home Cinema Choice Magazine. The heart of this system was a Barco Cine 9 with Barco VS60 Scaler being projected on a Stewart 8 foot screen. All this glorious kit was being fed via among other things a High Def VCR. The net result was AWESOME but at a price. I have worked with this type of equipment for a couple of years now so I would say I am used to the quality that can be achieved with a bottomless pit wallet but there is nothing like getting home, firing up your own kit regardless of its specification or price and getting stuck into a good old no brainer action film.

    Bottom line, it's a REAL LIFE Cinema experiance in your living room. I used to own for a long time a Sony HS-2, on the grand scheme of things quite a crude projector BUT everyone who came round to watch a film LOVED it. We all get a bit carried away with specifications and miss the point. We are all able to watch a film or watch tv on a screen which 9 times out of 10 is better set up than your local UCI with sound which easily matches and in relative terms knocks the snot out of a UCI.

    Come on guys, admit it, once you get immersed into a film you don't care whats throwing light, as long as it's on a bloody big screen. If you start looking at the image the way some of you do you can't really be enjoying it for the right reasons. Chill, burst open a bag of popcorn, grab a crate of Lager and invite some mates round who will all be amazed by whatever piece of kit you have buzzing behind their ears!!!
     
  25. Neelix

    Neelix
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Wow, 400bhp MGB V8... that sounds very sweet :D I was at a Castle Coombe trackday last Saturday and there was a V8 MGB flying round! Wasn't you was it?! In the wet morning session it really struggled to keep the tail in check but once it dried up it was awesome and sounded very nice too :cool:

    Edited: Misty you have hit the nail on the head big time... never a truer word spoken :clap:
     
  26. Neelix

    Neelix
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Misty, just looking at your sig... how far do you sit back from your 10ft screen? I only have a 6ft screen which looks enormous to me and tbh I couldn't get it any bigger for my room!
     
  27. Misty

    Misty
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Messages:
    111
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    21
    Location:
    Hinton
    Ratings:
    +5
    Neelix, love the name by the way, big fan of Voyager to. Sit about 15 foot away from my static frame. Image quality is fine but as you have probably gathered from my 1st entry on this link, I just love big images at home at the cost of quality. Quality is only a prime factor at work but that's a whole new line of conversation.

    If you have around 16 foot of throw spoil yourself a go for a DIY static. All in including a new mitre saw it cost me £260 using material from drhscreens and sticky backed black velvet from nexnix.

    Am currently tweeking the material as we speak to get rid of those pesky wrinkles. Right hand of the screen has the Nora Batty wrinkled stocking look we all know and love :D but give me a few days of advanced swearing and stretching and it should look sweet.
     
  28. xaser1066

    xaser1066
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Neelix, I completely agree with everything you have said regarding the HS50 ... to the average user like myself, it is simply brilliant ... words cannot discribe how pleased I am with my HS50 (which I bought blind!). I too have seen (and heard) the 4805, 5700, H57 and H77 DLP units, but none of them impressed me as much as the HS50. Also these DLP PJ's have very limited (long) throw lenses with limited lens shifting range (I needed a short throw and lots of vertical lens shift to acheive my ideal mounting position). I will certainly be keeping my HS50.
    Cheers, Jason.
     
  29. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Wasn't me this time..... I have been know to frequent the track though....Ended up in the corn field on the roof once as well.....Left crop circles well over 40ft apart..... :(

    Off to watch "bikini destinations" now......Like Misty says, enjoy....
     
  30. PJTX100

    PJTX100
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    8,129
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +562
    Spot on Misty. I suppose for most people there's a "quality standard" above which everyone will thoroughly enjoy the film, and from what I've seen and read most modern PJ's achieve that standard with ease. What we seem to be discussing is how far above that standard each machine goes, and in this respect they'll each have strengths and weaknesses.

    To be honest I'm still looking for "the catch". The picture is so much better than I expected, there must be some down sides. Again from what I've seen and read I'd say the down sides were...

    - takes a bit of time and effort to initially set up ie screen, ceiling bracket etc
    - less practical for everyday use especially daytime viewing
    - in general seem less reliable than a CRT, unsure how reliable plasmas are

    but the upsides of pic size and price far outweigh these factors...PJ
     

Share This Page

Loading...