1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

HS50 focus issue.

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by JohnS, Apr 14, 2005.

  1. JohnS

    JohnS
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2000
    Messages:
    2,580
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Herne Bay, Kent
    Ratings:
    +33
    I've noticed recently that my HS50 takes about half an hour from turning on befvore it comes back into focus. If its adjusted in that time it wil be out of focus after that period.

    Has anyone else noticed the same? If so do you think we should just put up with it or is it a fault that can be repaired. I'm sure my old HS10 didn't do this.
     
  2. Bristol Pete

    Bristol Pete
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Messages:
    5,577
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Bristol.
    Ratings:
    +321
    That has to be a fault John. The fact that your HS10 did not do this is evidence enough.

    Pete.
     
  3. hebawom

    hebawom
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2004
    Messages:
    187
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Matlock
    Ratings:
    +0
    I've quickly clocked up 135 hours on mine and not noticed anything like this. Once windows is loaded up, it runs the auto APA and it looks fine.
    Once in a while (maybe every 2 or 3 days), I'll need to tweak the focus, but definitely not each time I switch on.
    Do you have APA on auto, this might not have anything to do with the optic focus, but its like a digital focus I think
     
  4. JohnS

    JohnS
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2000
    Messages:
    2,580
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Herne Bay, Kent
    Ratings:
    +33
    Yes, APA is on auto, its definitly odd, what suprises me more though is after half hour if you resist tweaking it comes back to perfect focus. Maybe I'll give nexnix a call and see what they say.
     
  5. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,850
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    I'm delighted to say I think I can answer this. Its all to do with the temperature of your room.

    I noticed exactly the same as you describe, on my HS50. Originally, I thought I had the sub turned up too high, and it was shaking the focus ring. After much fiddling, I noticed by accident that it came into perfect focus after 30 minutes or so. But, when I pre-heated the room (as my garage conversion has no permanent heating), the focus was perfect straight away.

    Now, if its cold, I turn my heater on before I go in, and everything is fine. The reason its focusing after 30 minutes or so is that it needs the time to get warm if the room was cold. Hopefully this is your answer :smashin:
     
  6. JohnS

    JohnS
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2000
    Messages:
    2,580
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Herne Bay, Kent
    Ratings:
    +33
    Thansk UrbanT, sounds possible, I'll give it a go.
     
  7. hebawom

    hebawom
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2004
    Messages:
    187
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Matlock
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes - this could be so. I don't notice this issue, but my cinema room is always toasty. It's quite a small room with a big radiator (comes on twice a day) and I keep my PC running 24 hours which regulates a nice bit of heat, so it could be a plausible idea.
     
  8. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,850
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    Unfortunately heat is a luxury in my garage :). I should say its a fact rather than a 'plausable idea', as its exactly what happens with my unit :)
     
  9. hebawom

    hebawom
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2004
    Messages:
    187
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    19
    Location:
    Matlock
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'll take your word on it - but thankfully its not an issue I have to deal with!
     
  10. JohnS

    JohnS
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2000
    Messages:
    2,580
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Herne Bay, Kent
    Ratings:
    +33
    My room is a lounge so its not particularly cold,(we like the house warm), especially now the weather is warming up but I will certainly try getting the room hot before turning the pj on tonight and see if it makes a difference.
     
  11. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,850
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    It may be that where the projector is sited is in a cold part of the room, or in a draft. For test purposes only, get the room extra hot before turning on and see what happens. This would at least prove the theory. I'm pretty confident though, as your description is exactly what happens with mine :)
     
  12. JohnS

    JohnS
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2000
    Messages:
    2,580
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    71
    Location:
    Herne Bay, Kent
    Ratings:
    +33
    UrbanT

    I think your right, I've tried it a few times now with the room at varying tempratures and when its really warm the hs50 doesn't need a wait for it to come into focus. It does need to be quite warm though 23/24C I would guess.

    Cheers
     
  13. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,850
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    Hi John

    Delighted you tracked down the problem. These days, I either turn the heater on half an hour before I go in to watch if its very cold, or, if its a warmer day, a few minutes before I go in. Have fun :)

    Chris
     
  14. Neelix

    Neelix
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Well I just did a search for this and hey presto this thread pops up :) I have my HS50 running through a HCPC and have also noticed that it slowly goes out of focus after about 15 minutes. I guess it must be some temperature thing although I would suggest it is perhaps more to do with the heat generated from the unit itself which is effecting the focus. I have now decided to turn the unit on 10 minutes before use to allow it to warm up properly rather than have to adjust the focus after 15 minutes viewing!
     
  15. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,850
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    Hi Neelix, I assume you mean it comes into focus after 15 minutes, not goes out of focus?

    Your assumption that it is the heat from the unit is correct. To prove this, I advised John to pre-heat his room (so the projector was warmer) before turning on to see if this cured the problem. The alternative is to switch the unit on like you are doing, to heat it up before viewing.

    It results in the same thing :)
     
  16. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Hi Chris.
    I'm curious, what is making the unit out of focus when cold? looking back over our test results someone did mention this at the time but I just assumed that the focus had been knocked..... I must admit I'm not aware of very many other pj's that the focus changes that much over the warmup period, is it the lens or the chip itself moving?
     
  17. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,850
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,032

    Hi Graham.

    Honestly, I don't know. Unfortunately I'm not the most technical person in the world. Originally I thought my sub was vibrating the focus ring, and it only came to light on a particulalry cold day, when I had to turn the heater on in the room prior to using it (there is no permanent heating installed) and the focus was perfect again. The room is cold(ish) generally, and only needs a small amount of heating (only what I would do for my comfort rather than to help the PJ), to bring it into immediate focus. With no pre-heating, it takes about 10 minutes to focus on a cold day, but on a normal day is fine :)

    Chris
     
  18. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    If anyone knows waht causes this on the HS50 I'd be interested to know. I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that we noticed that the focus wasn't uniform over the entire screen during our test, this might be due to something being heat "moved" and not quite uniform in its movement..... Funny thing is that SONY said they could address this with firmware, mind you SONY say a lot of things.......
     
  19. dave_h34

    dave_h34
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2005
    Messages:
    169
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +11
    My other half's brother has a HS50 and has mentioned the need for frequent refocusing as one of the only negative points with the projector. I'll have to pass the room temperature theory on to him, maybe he can add further weight to it.
     
  20. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,041
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,111
    Get a very similar effect on my HS20. Always give it 40 mins to warm up before I watch anything important on it , the colour also suffers a slight reddish bias at switch-on. ( bulb warming up I guess or maybe the panels moving with expansion over time)

    Probably just slight thermal expansion. If you are in the habit of calibrating your kit when its reached its normal operating temp chances are it will be off at initial switch on .

    The temperature differential between the lamp off and lamp on is quite large so its understandable really.
     
  21. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Blimey, 40 minutes is a long time for an LCD to settle down?
    I am assuming that the bulb isn't causing this and that it is somehow related to the heating of the lens or panels, I ran a test on a NEC LCD business projector and a BARCO DLP last might and both gave the saved calibrated result without much warm up and both stayed in focus throughtout the warm up period.... I am now more than curious as to what exactly happens with the SONY that causes the focus jump....
     
  22. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,850
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    Graham, what was the temperature of the room when testing your PJ's last night?

    The Sony is only out of focus on initial start up when the room is particularly cold. If the room is a normal household temperature, it is either clearly focused immediately, or just takes a couple of minutes to focus.

    The effect is exaggerated in my room as there is no heating, and like a typical garage, can get very cold, especially through the winter period we have just had.

    Chris
     
  23. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Hi Chris.

    Standard 20degC and focus didn't seem to be an issue from the moment the bulb was bright enough to see an image on either pj. The chap above states that 40 minutes was needed before his settled down, that is a very very long time and must be a fault surely? I do take your point that this only seems to happen for you from cold for a few minutes but I'm just curious why, plastic lens optics maybe?

    As an aside I would never ever recommend to anyone that they fire up a chilled pj as I've seen bulbs go bang several times..... In fact when I ferry units around that have been in the car overnight I let them come up to room temp before powering them up. Think of what is happening to that poor stone cold (say 3-4degC overnight in a cold garage/boot?) bulb that all of a sudden goes form freezing to mini sun in a second or so......Can't be good for it really?
     
  24. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,850
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    Very good point re the cold bulb, hadn't really given it any thought. I do warm the garage with the heater first for my own comfort, which in turn heats the unit (the heater sits under the PJ). Turns out this may have saved the bulb :)

    At 20 degrees, my Sony is nearly always perfectly focused on switch on, or takes a couple of minutes at most. Has to be a cheap part somewhere that causes this by the sound of it, shame we don't know a technician from Sony to ask. Perhaps they aren't even aware of the occurence if the units are tested in a lab?

    Chris
     
  25. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    It should be pointed out that I am talking about very cold at switch on, normal living rooms would not gte that cold I hope, Garage conversions with limited heating or insulation might need to warm the room a bit first, remember that steel etc. within the pj may take a bit longer to warm up.....

    I would say that at 20DegC a pj should be in focus from start up and certianly by the time the lamp has reached full brightness (30 secs?) no out of focus image should be present (I am talking LCD here as CRT pj's are a very different kettle of fish)..... I just can't see what would move enough to cause an out of focus image and then snap back once hot.... maybe its normal, I simply don't know but am more and more curious why even if it is perfectly normal for these SONY's to do it...... I know Epson's and NEC's don't, well the ones we have had anyway (which is most of them!). I suppose if a SONY insider could comment on if the light engine is an all glass optic affair that might give a clue? For the record plastic optics are often used on budget models to keep price down, glass optics should yield better results but of course you pay for it....
     
  26. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,041
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,111
    Nope I've just got very good eyes.
     
  27. Ekko Star

    Ekko Star
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2002
    Messages:
    6,068
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +374
    Well my HS20 has never exhibited any of these phenomena. The cooler the enivironment the better for the PJ. The focus ring is manual on the HS50 ? Hmmm if it was ceiling mounted that would be a right royal pain. HS20 with it's motorised assembly still has it's virtues.
     
  28. UrbanT

    UrbanT
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    12,850
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Aldershot, Hants
    Ratings:
    +3,032
    I think you missed the point. You don't touch the focus ring at all. If your HS50 is slightly out of focus on switch on, you mustn't refocus, as it will be out of focus again after a few minutes, once its warmed up :)
     
  29. GrahamMG

    GrahamMG
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2004
    Messages:
    4,449
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    UK
    Ratings:
    +192
    Well it appears that this will remain a mystery. I'm happy that I have never had to touch the focus ring on my pj nd it is nevr out of focus (cold, warm or hot), a stable focus over its operating temp range is a given in my book, I wul dnot entertain one that didn't...... Nice to know that when we tested an HS50 all that time ago and people ganged up on me to say how wrong I was might now consider that just about everything I said has been an issue for many.... I must admit that I thought the focus variation was just down to design and hadn't considered it would be heat related but at least I noticed it!
     
  30. Mr.D

    Mr.D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2000
    Messages:
    11,041
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Ratings:
    +1,111
    I'd say room temperature is better for your projector , will minimise issues such as thermal shock and condensation. As for not seeing the focus change well maybe you just don't notice it . I've seen this phenomena with every lamp based projector I've encountered/owned.
     

Share This Page

Loading...