1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

HS2 or 5100?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by andyhag, Feb 28, 2004.

  1. andyhag

    andyhag
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Help

    I want/need to get a HDD/dvd recorder. The question is which one? If you look around the price of the HS2 and Pioneer 5100 are very close.

    What do people think?

    I will be using it for archiving old videos.

    I also want to link up with sky.

    Help

    Andy
     
  2. jem

    jem
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2002
    Messages:
    527
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +7
    The answer depends on whether you have Sky or Sky+.

    If Sky I would go for the HS2 as it has RGB in, the Pioneer does not.

    If Sky+, then you can use S-Video in with the Pioneer.

    I have Sky+ and chose the HS2 over the Pioneer as I preferred the RGB option. Although my decision was also based on the fact that my son was also getting an E50.
     
  3. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,216
    As Jem says the biggest issue relating to the machines is the lack of RGB input on the Pioneer 5100 - the net effect of this is that you would either need a digibox that supports S-Video (most do not regardless of whether they are Freeview or Sky) or get a RGB-to-S-Video converter. Neither option is brilliant as, generally speaking, S-Video is inferior to RGB.

    All that said both are brilliant machines. If you want to make recordings onto re-writeable compatible disks then the Pioneer 5100 writes to DVD-RW which will play in around 90% of existing DVD players - this may be useful if you want disks for 'watch and wipe' in (for example) an upstairs DVD player. Both machines write to DVD-R which is around 96% compatible with existing DVD players and you'll find (regardless of which machine you get you will use this media most of the time).

    Maybe of interest is the PC Card slot on the HS2 - this enables you to copy digital camera JPEGs onto the HDD/DVD-RAM. Useful for some digital camera owners.

    In the Pioneer's favour it has the ability to play MP3s and WMA - the HS2 cannot.

    Other than that the two machines are much of a muchness. Both enable you to make accurate edits and dub across to DVD-R. You'll be happy with either - certainly both machines will make great recordings from VHS.
     
  4. andyhag

    andyhag
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks for the info. It sounds like the HS2 is the one for me.

    I have a oldish Sony DVP-s725 dvd that is "moded" to to give a clear video o/p which I would like to use. I also have a JVC svhs video that I would like to use as the source for my achiving.

    I just have "normal" sky.

    What would be the best way to hook it all up.

    My TV is a Sony wide screen with 2 scart i/p's
     
  5. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,216
    There are several options open to you re connecting it all up. I would suggest you do not need the VHS connected to the HS2 at all times. Generally most people seem to copy their VHS recordings to DVD only occasionally and just hook it up as and when. This is easy to do - just hook the VHS output to AV2 on the HS2.

    The fact you want to make DVD copies from your DVD player makes RGB in even more important. Both the HS2 and 5100 will look for copy-protection but if it's been modded it might not be a problem (I know several people on the forum have done this). I would suggest connecting the DVD player up using the RGB out to the RGB input (AV2) on the HS2 'as and when' you want to copy stuff. If you want it connected all the time you should get a 2 into 1 splitter such as:
    http://www.lektropacks.co.uk/product/technical.asp?dept_id=112&sku=664

    Anyway some basic solutions are:

    Solution If Do NOT Purchase A 2into1 Splitter
    This would allow you to record from Sky in RGB on your HS2 and, should you be dubbing on your HS2, to watch Sky through the VCR (in composite). You will still be able to record Sky on your SVHS but only in composite.

    Sky TV Out > AV2 on the Panasonic and then AV1 > TV RGB In
    Sky VCR Out > SVHS Video > TV In


    Solution If You Purchase A 2into1 Splitter
    This solution allows you to have your DVD player hooked upto your HS2 at all times as well as all the above. Selecting your Sky unit or DVD player as source is as easy as pressing the button on the 2into1. You will still be able to record Sky on your SVHS but only in composite.

    Sky TV Out > 2into1 > AV2 on the Panasonic and then AV1 > TV RGB In
    DVD Player > 2into1 > AV2 etc
    Sky VCR Out > SVHS Video > TV In
     
  6. andyhag

    andyhag
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2004
    Messages:
    14
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks Rasczak

    You do seem to have it sussed. I think I would have got there, but you seem to have saved me alot of hassle.

    I will get it all connected and lets see what happens.

    I shall keep you posted

    Many thanks

    Andy.
     
  7. bobbles

    bobbles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    before you buy you may want to consider the updated E100. I know it is a fair bit more but you may be worth it. I'm sure others here can point out the key differences.

    I do agree with a standard sky box a HS2 / E100 is the sensible option. However,

    to say those are the only real advantages is a bit ridiculous. It has many key advantages. Unfortunately without sky+ or one of the few standard sky boxes that outputs s-video the Pioneer is a non starter. It does suprise me that so many are buying a dvdr before sky+ mid you.

    You will have no problems backing up dvds using a dvdr since it has been modified. However, I don't really see the point when a dvdrw with the appropriate software can be bought so cheaply which would make a near identical copy. I have only used my dvdr to timeshift a few rentals. Personally I would always rather own the original.
     
  8. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,216
    Bobbles that was just one line in a list of pros and cons! You could have equally have quoted my one liner on the HS2 and said the same! I was only giving an overview and the bulk of my post related to the core points: DVD-RW and RGB issues.
     
  9. bobones

    bobones
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2002
    Messages:
    453
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +7
    Bobbles, not everyone can get Sky or Sky+ even if they wanted to and could afford it! For example, I live in a listed building which doesn't allow dishes and many communal systems are not equipped to carry sky+.

    My brother has Sky+, and while it's a good system, I think my tivo wins hands down. The PQ on Sky+ is superior than than that of a standard tivo, and dual record is a nice feature; however, I've tweaked my tivo to record at 720x576 at up to 9Mbps VBR, fixed brightness and saturation issues, and now it is virtually impossible to tell the source from the recording. I would go as far as saying that recordings on my tivo are superior to those from my E50.

    Other tivo advantages are that it will easily support massive hard drives (2x300GB is possible), the operating system and EPG are much better, the tivo is intelligent about handling season pass (series link) conflicts, it will automatically record programmes it thinks you might like, and you can search the EPG and record on wishlists based on actors, directors, categories, keywords etc.

    If you've got a tivo, you don't need a standalone recorder. I can extract video digitally on to my PC via ethernet and author dvd's there.
     
  10. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,216
    The E100 has the following differences over the HS2:
    - Larger HDD (80GB as opposed to 40GB)
    - MPEG4 recording
    - Ability to select a thumbnail image on DVD-R menus
    - DVD-Audio (2 Channel) Playback
    - WMA Playback
    - MP3 Playback

    In addition it has improved DVD playback quality and a few tweaks here and there.
     
  11. bobbles

    bobbles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Bobones - very true some people can not have sky+ and for those normal sky and tivo will have to do :D

    I don't know much about tivo tbh. However, it's not much of an option since the have stopped selling it here. Ok ebay etc. Now DR is finally here sky+ has a serious killer advantage.

    I still think sky+ should be bought (for those who can!) before a dvdr.

    Rasczak - to me the advantage you quoted seems a very minor one. You then said they are much of a muchness. This implies there are no other advantages worth considering which simply is not true.

    Nonetheless, I do completely agree without an s-video output on the sky box the lack of RGB input outweighs all the other advantages the poineer offers.

    Do you think those E100 advantages are worth the exta money?
     
  12. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,216
    In the sense of core HDD/DVDR functionality the machines are much of a muchness. Ultimately the aim of any such unit is to make editted recordings onto DVD-R. Both machines will achieve this well. There are more pros and cons for each machine - people can find these out by reading the forums or stating precisely what they want. The list otherwise is endless:
    - If you want to record from the machines internal tuner then you don't want the 3100.
    - If you want a 2 way iLink you don't want the HS2.
    - If you want to put Digital Photos onto DVD then you don't want the 5100.
    - If you want to make high speed dubs to DVD-R then you don't want the HS2.

    As I say the list is endless. It simply cannot be stated in full everytime anyone asks - surely the purpose of the forum is just to point people in the right direction so that when they read the reviews of the products they know what the core functionality is.

    As for MP3/WMA playback being 'minor' - well it's subjective obviously - but as an example Sony have reviewed there policy on not adding MP3/WMA support to "entry level" players and recorders due to "poor performance" of their basic range. Certainly I should imagine most of us here have some sort of digital audio that we would rather play on our audio setups as opposed to the PC!
     
  13. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,216
    Depends whether you want the extra space/features! The E100 is just a tweaked HS2. It doesn't really inspire anyone to upgrade but for a new buyer then I would say the E100 is worth the £250 extra over the HS2 yes - especially if you want to use it as your primary DVD player.
     
  14. Kevo

    Kevo
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    5,354
    Products Owned:
    1
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +144
    The E100 does not have the 'lip synch' or the 'screen flicker' bugs like the HS2.

    'Minor' issues that put me off the HS2.

    There's a lot more to it than just spec alone when considering a purchase like this.
     
  15. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,216
    Both of these have been sorted by the firmware upgrade - all new machines should have had this.

    Yes indeed. But the specification has to be the first point you look at.
     
  16. father alice

    father alice
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    194
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +6
    is the firmware update available to existing machines? I hace an hs2 which suffers from lip synch problems, so would be interested if it could be updated.
     
  17. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,216
    Most users seem to have acquired a copy by going through Panasonic. Alternatively there are copies floating around the net although I would dubious before upgrading a £500 machine with one. Have a look at the thread on the subject here:
    http://www.thewholewideweb.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=135

    Personally I haven't bothered. There aren't many situations when I'm watching live TV through the HS2 when it's on (I normally put it into standby).
     
  18. Donos

    Donos
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2003
    Messages:
    79
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Dublin
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi ... I am very interested in combi HDD/DVD recorder for :-
    (a) HDD recording / Timeslip (using internal tuner) from broadcast TV (composite, analogue feed ... not Sky),
    (b) DVD archiving (broadcast TV, but especially family camcorder footage)

    Pio 5100 seemed best bet (support for both UHF & VHF, as used in Ireland ... and I'm not hung up on lack of RGB in) ... but I am concerned about a previous quote :-

    * Is there a question mark over quality of 3100 / 5100 internal tuner ?

    Thanks in anticipation
     
  19. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,216
    Apparently so. The recordings from the AV inputs are beyond reproach but there have been some accounts that the internal tuner isn't brilliant. Your best bet is to experiment with the machine prior to buying. That way you will know one way or the other. The Pioneer 5100 will do an excellent job on the Camcorder side of things though no problem.
     
  20. OARDVD

    OARDVD
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Messages:
    241
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Deepest Hertfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    Rasczak wrote:

    The E100 has the following differences over the HS2:
    - Larger HDD (80GB as opposed to 40GB)
    - MPEG4 recording
    - Ability to select a thumbnail image on DVD-R menus
    - DVD-Audio (2 Channel) Playback
    - WMA Playback
    - MP3 Playback

    In addition it has improved DVD playback quality and a few tweaks here and there.

    **************************************************
    Actually, there’s another ‘small tweak’ that the E100 has over the HS2 and that is High speed dubbing to DVD-R. The E100 and E80 have an option to record in a DVD-R compatible mode on the HDD which lets you high speed dub programmes (or your playlists) to DVD-R completely losslessly. Unlike the E80 though, the E100 has a 4X drive so it’s up to 4X faster dubbing to DVD-R (using appropriate blanks).

    Say, for example, you record a 1 hour programme in SP on the HDD. On the HS2 it has to be dubbed in realtime to DVD-R, so it takes 1 hour. This also involves a reconversion, which loses quality. However, on the E80 it can be high speed dubbed and take approx 30 minutes with no loss of quality. On the E100 it takes approx 7.5 mins.

    These time differences become even greater for recordings made at lower bit rates. For example, 1hour in EP mode still takes 1 hour to dub to DVD-R on the HS2, but it’s only 10 mins on the E80 and 2.5 mins on the E100.

    BTW, the E100 gives you a limited selection of (fairly basic) coloured backgrounds for your Top Menu.
     
  21. datsunman

    datsunman
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    197
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +5
    Interesting facts, this is the precise reason I am considering returning the HS2, dubbing reduces quality too much for my liking.

    Now how do I explain to the missus that I need to spend another couple of hundred quid....? :confused:
     
  22. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,216
    Even with an E100 you'll need to dub in realtime to some extent unless your prepared to keep the original recording settings (XP, SP, LP, EP) which will make it difficult to fill the DVD-R to capacity. There is a way around that (on the E100) by recording the original on DVD-RAM using an appropriate FR settings, dub in High Speed back to the HDD and then dub in high speed to DVD-R (which obviously avoids re-encoding) but if you use FR sensibly during a dub then the loss of quality should be minimal.

    FR is designed to work best from XP mode (the highest allowable bitrate on DVD) and copy to an optimum of around 2hrs 20mins. Thus the best results will be achieved by recording everything on the HDD in XP mode and only dubbing two or three episodes of a series to DVD-R. Indeed if you try to use FR to convert from XP to nearer EP quality than the results are horrific.
     
  23. OARDVD

    OARDVD
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Messages:
    241
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Deepest Hertfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    Agreed, this is useful where you want to record several programmes on to one DVD-R. If, however, you only have one programme you can of course record it directly on the HDD in FR mode which saves you having to do it on RAM.

    Yes, generally I use FR for single progs which are about 1.5 hours long (a lot of movies are about 90 mins). This usually produces an average bitrate of about 7.5 Mbps, producing a recording level between XP and SP.
     
  24. datsunman

    datsunman
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2003
    Messages:
    197
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +5
    I'm not overly fussed about dubbing in the same mode, I just want to preserve the best quality I can. Most of the instances I can think of last about 45mins - 1 hour so will fit on a single DVD anyway. Sounds like the E100 will do the job nicely, however I'm left wondering if the newer forthcoming models will have any extra 'undocumented' features like HS2->E100 did.

    Sorry to hijack the thread by the way....

    And if it's any interest to anyone I notice Richer Sounds now have the E100 at £699.
     
  25. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,216
    Excellent value indeed.
     
  26. bobbles

    bobbles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Is it not possible to record in FR onto the HDD and then high speed dub? Seems rather odd not to be able to do this.

    With the tosh you record onto the HDD at te required bit rate it then makes an exact digital copy at high speed onto -r.

    Looking at the differences between the HS2 and the E100 it would definitely be money well spent paying the extra for the e100.

    If RS are doing the E100 for £699 you can pretty much guarantee the online retailers will drop their prices below this.
     
  27. Rasczak

    Rasczak
    Distinguished Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    21,151
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Location:
    Argyll
    Ratings:
    +2,216
    With the E100 so cheap I am interested to see at what price the E85 will be released into the UK. Especially as it's sole purpose is to be a budget, bare-bones HDD/DVDR.
     
  28. OARDVD

    OARDVD
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Messages:
    241
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Deepest Hertfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    Yes, of course you can record directly on to the HDD of the E100 in FR mode and then high speed dub it to DVD-R. It assumes a virtual limit of 4.7GB on the HDD (the same as a blank DVD-R).

    I think that the E100 is a fantastic bit of kit, especially now that it’s coming down in price a bit. After recording a movie on the HDD I find it’s very quick and easy to edit out any ads, set chapter markers, then high speed dub to DVD-R (taking a maximum of 15 minutes for a full disc), title the DVD, pick a background and thumbnails then finalise it. BTW, finalising a 4X DVD-R on the E100 is much quicker than on my old E20 (taking just over a minute).

    There are really only 3 things think the E100 is missing:

    1)The ability to write to DVD-RW in at least DVD Video mode. This would allow you to preview your DVDs before committing to DVD-R.

    2)The ability to set the widescreen flag on DVD-R for 16:9 anamorphic recordings (it sets it to 4:3). This is a flaw with all panny DVD recorders. They set it correctly on RAM so why not –R? There is a clunky workaround where you can take the DVD-R and copy it on a pc and set the flag using IfoEdit. Then write to a new blank but this wastes a DVD-R. Another reason for wanting –RW.

    3)Dubbing a DVD-R to the HDD.
     
  29. bobbles

    bobbles
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    you can do 2) and 3) on the tosh.

    I thought you would be able to do the FR then high speed
     
  30. OARDVD

    OARDVD
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2003
    Messages:
    241
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Location:
    Deepest Hertfordshire
    Ratings:
    +0
    As I expect you know, the current generation of Tosh DVD recorders in Japan record –RW in video mode. Do you have any idea which ones are coming to the UK and, crucially, will they have RGB input? ;)

    Interestingly the spec for the RD-X4 says at the top that it records –RW only in video mode, but it then appears to contradict itself by saying “To match the needs of our high-end users, Toshiba has made VR mode recording possible on DVD-RW.” So does it record –VR or not?

    http://202.33.69.161/dvd/e/lineup/hdd/rd-x4_02.html

    Their new "RD engine" allows you to record to HDD (or play from the HDD) at the same time as you dub from HDD to DVD - pretty neat!
     

Share This Page

Loading...