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HS10 Lens Mounted CC40R Filter

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Klippie, Jan 30, 2003.

  1. Klippie

    Klippie
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    I see a few posts asking about CC40R filters for the HS10, I made a lens mounted filter about a week ago from parts ordered from Jessops high street stores.

    The parts.
    Lee CC40r filter material 75mm by 75mm this is just a very thin plastic film which is easy cut to size (£7) and a cokin 67mm square filter adaptor ring (£5) which is made from aluminium.

    If anybody would like a pic of this pm me your mail address.

    I set the projectors Gains and Bias % settings to those posted by Dave Boswell over on AVS and the difference is outstanding the colours and shadow detail are improved by leaps and bounds plus the greys are much darker, this is a must do for HS10's.

    After all the bother of making this filter I have found a company selling proper lens mounted CC40R filters the material they use is between 1-1.7mm which is much thicker than the Lee stuff I ordered, the price is £18 delivered.

    I have been e-mailing them over a couple of weeks about these filters a chap called Ian has been very helpful indeed so I ordered one tonight on line.

    They can be found here....

    http://www.srbfilm.co.uk

    Klippie.
     
  2. WebLoader

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    thanks for the link

    i have been looking at the whole filter thing - but i havent had time to wade through all of the posts...

    so, this *will* i am sure have been asked a million times, but are there any downsides? i mean, do you lose brightness compared to the cinema filter from sony?

    i am running on a painted wall (ice storm 6) , i have not started any calibrations yet. i am suffering though from blue blacks - would i see an improvement?

    finally - the filter that you have ordered, does it just screw on or is there still a diy element to it?

    cheers
     
  3. JohnS

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    webloader, you'll probably be better off with a white wall with the filter and even without it'll probably help with your blue blacks.

    Klippie you have pm.
     
  4. TT9

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    Klippie,

    Can you repost when you get your filter delivered and fitted and let us all know what the differences are.

    Cheers,
    Steve.
     
  5. John_N

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    Thanks for the link.

    Ordered one today. Cost was £15. It has to be manufactured and as such will take about a week. 67mm with CC40R acrylic resin filter (not gelatin).
     
  6. John_N

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    PS. Yes it does just screw in - a direct replacement for the sony filter. I await it with interest.
     
  7. JohnS

    JohnS
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    Just oredered mine, the chap said that he had about 10-12 orders already...;)
     
  8. WebLoader

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    yep - count me in to the not so exclusive cc40 club ;-)

    at £18 you cannot go wrong!

    cheers
     
  9. anbjornk

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    I guess I need one too.....:D:D And probably a CC30R too...!
    I hope it's not a problem for them to ship to Norway..!

    AK
     
  10. Klippie

    Klippie
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    I hope this link has helped a few out.

    Webloader.
    The only downside I can think of will be a redundant cinema filter as I do not think you will use it again once you have seen an image through a CC40R filter, it is that good.

    There should be no loss in overall brightness as the blue and green levels have to be increased to balance out the colours.

    As for the fitment, it should be the same as the cinema filter suppied with the projector so it will fit straight on the lens.

    TT9.
    Hopefully there will be no visual differences in the image as the specification of the two CC40R filters should be the same, but I will post on my findings anyway.

    12 orders and counting.....wow

    Lots of HS10's around it seems, lots of happy people!

    Klippie.
     
  11. graham.myers

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    I didn't have a clue what I wanted so I dropped them an email, this is the reply

    Hi,

    We have seen a sudden burst of activity for people requiring colour correction filters for LCD projectors. Up until a few days ago, I must confess we hadn't realised that there was a requirement for these. This means that we have no information whatsoever on lens sizes and fittings. The first guy we spoke with has a lens that accepts filters mounted in metal holders that simply screw into the front of the lens. The thread in this instance is 67mm. We can make fittings of any size, including ones to fit over the lens, either as one off or in batch quantities. We do have a full range of filters in standard fittings.

    At the simplest level, we can cut discs of filter material (1.5mm thick) which you can fit into the front of the lens or tape onto the lens. This may be a short term solution for you to enable the projector to be set up properly.

    Very helpfull, but not for me. Nevermind - ordered mine from www.enhancedHT.com
     
  12. WebLoader

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    guys

    I am confused!
    Graham - I have just dropped them an email to confirm that what i have ordered is a direct screw in replacement - as the email to you seems a little ambiguous.

    i will post back the reply

    cheers
     
  13. John_N

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    The gentleman I spoke to at srbfilm said that the filter would be a 67mm screw in filter fitted with the CC40R made of acrylic resin. I specifically mentioned that I wanted a screw in replacement.

    The existing filter is a 67mm filter (standard size) and there is no reason why the filter (when it arrives) should not fit.

    Don't panic guys... Oh by the way - SRB was recommended to me by my local camera shop as being the people to get bespoke camera filters from.
     
  14. graham.myers

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    If I would have had the time then I would have ordered from these guys £18 is great compared to the $65 I'm paying + either $22 (for post) or $50ish (for Fed-Ex) + duty etc I'm paying from the states.

    Gordon's coming down to calibrabte my PJ so I need a guranteed delivery. If I have to mount it myself I don't have the time at the mo so would have had to cancel the visit.
     
  15. Klippie

    Klippie
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    Just to clear few things up, I had been discussing during the past couple of weeks with SRB the whole projector/filter thing and explained about the Sony filter supplied with the HS10 (apparently rated CC20M) and the improvement that a CC40R will give if fitted.

    I did tell them the Sony filter screws directly onto the lens and the filter I required has to do the same. They said they could supply me a CC40R filter which is a 67mm standard fitment with an outside diameter around 69mm so to be able to screw onto and into the front of the lens.

    I was told it would cost £16.05 + £1.95 post, They had also sourced a glass CC40R filter at £110, so £110 v's £18 I know which one I went for.

    SRB say they will supply a 67mm CC40R screw in filter to me and I look forward to getting it.

    Klippie.
     
  16. John_N

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    I got the CC40R screw in filter this morning (that was quick) from SRB.

    It screws in fine and fits. I haven't had time to use it yet - it made the picture look well red though so I guess we're going to need some adjustments to the bias/gain.

    Does anyone have any rough amended bias/gain figures for Cc40R? I have AVIA but not the time today to start messing around - I just want to set one of my colour temperatures 'roughly right' and that will do for tonight..

    Ideas?
     
  17. Klippie

    Klippie
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    My CC40R filter arrived from SRB this morning, it is exactly the same fitting as the Sony supplied cinema filter.

    Colour wise it looks the same as the DIY filter I made up earlier.

    I wll give it a test tonight on something dark like Star Wars II.

    Klippie.
     
  18. TT9

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    Chaps,

    What has the CC40R done for colours and blacks ? Anyone had a decent play around yet ?

    Is it £20 well spent I suppose I am asking !!


    Steve.
     
  19. John_N

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    I had a bit of a mess around with my new Cc40R filter today.

    I've done a rough grey scale calibration using AVIA and my eyes and set the black and white levels.

    I watched extracts from the fifth element and from the start of 'Aliens' (dark scenes).

    I noticed an overall improvement in shadow detail on the dark scenes of 'Aliens' and the black levels were definitely 'blacker'. The colour balance was also more natural and pleasing on flesh tones, and moving to the fifth element, certain scenes which looked rather washed out before now look much better.

    Overall I would say that yes it is £20 well spent.
     
  20. Pulsar

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    John_N,

    Glad to hear that you like your new filter. I will be getting one shortly, and my Avia should be here any day now. I was wondering what adjustments did you make, and where did you make them. I have read that really long post on AVS by Dave Boswell, and he suggests adjusting the red green and blue gain and bias settings in the service menu. Is this waht you did?

    If you have time I would be interested to see what setting you have changed/used. On AVS, they said that you need to be careful when adjusting setting in the FACTORY menu, and should really stick to the SERVICE menu. Just thought I would let you know, because they said that adjusting settings in the factory menu voids the warranty.:confused:

    Cheers

    Rob
     
  21. Klippie

    Klippie
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    TT9,

    The colours and blacks are very much improved compaired with the cinema filter, I watch a lot of sci-fi and the space scenes look superb, I would recommend doing this highly.

    I do not have avia or any colour calibration devices I used Dave Boswell's post on AVS, do a search for DaveBoswell and look for the long post.

    You have to enter the factory mode to adjust the gains and bias settings as there is no other way to bring the green and blue levels up to compensate for the CC40R filter.

    In Dave's post it gives % changes from the base factory settings to the cinema filter settings, you must take a note of your original factory settings before you start.

    Using the low setting as default calculate each new setting from this starting with low then middle and high this then gives a great set up with the cinema filter.

    Now using Dave's rough setup for the CC40R, again this is simply a % change from the cinema filter settings to the CC40R.


    I think the reason for the % changes given are everybodys factory settings are different so using someone elses exact figures would probably not look right on your own projector.

    Don't be afraid to have a go as long as you keep your original factory settings safe so you can set the HS10 back to default if required.

    Also keep checking every so often over on Avs as Dave Boswell posts regular updates of his settings.

    Have fun...

    Klippie.
     
  22. John_N

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    Hi

    I made a note of my original RGB gain/bias settings and then using the AVIA greyscale patterns I adjusted them to remove traces of colour from the greyscale - initially the greys were all pink.

    When I have performed a more thorough calibration on my new screen I will let you know..

    Rgds
    John
     
  23. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The use of an offset is exactly for the reason you suggest. All units will have different settings. The filter will increase contrast and reduce black level but it will not get greyscale accurate and neither will doing it by eye unfortunately.

    Room decor, age of lamp, screen size and partnering equipment will all affect greyscale. So you can see you can't just copy someone else's settings.

    To calibrate accurately by eye you need a reference for D65. Without it you have the problem that the eye does auto white balance. Even with a reference light to keep this in check it's really really hard and takes a lot of experience.

    Having said all that I am sure you'll all still get a nice improvement over what comes as standard.

    Gordon
     
  24. TT9

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    Thanks to all contributers to the excellent thread, particularly Klippie for posting in detail his findings.

    I like what I am hearing and will send them my £20 this morning.

    Cheers All,
    Steve.
     
  25. anbjornk

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    Have anyone that use Acrylic resin filter from SRB (on the HS10) noticed reflections...? Thats exactly what I do....:(:(
    I also notice that the reddish tint is greater on the right side of the screen than the left side........grrrr

    Regards

    AK
     
  26. Klippie

    Klippie
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    anbjornk,

    I was one of the first to get this filter and have noticed nothing that has any cause for complaint. I have however noticed that there is a slight distortion on the filter where the light shines through it, now I won't say this is causing reflections just that I cant see anything.

    Please describe what you are seeing.

    Klippie.
     
  27. anbjornk

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    Hello,

    When watching a dark movie with high contrast scenes, (e.g. white on black background) I can see reflections underneath the actual viewing area. Not very easy to spot, but they're there.
    Very annoying..... The second thing I see is in bright scenes with much white displayed, where the whites have a reddish tint, but greater on one side..... Could this indicate that the filter is not evenly thick..?

    Regards

    AK
     
  28. John_N

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    I haven't noticed anything untoward using this filter.

    You have recalibrated your gain & bias settings to get rid of th red tint haven't you? You should not be seeing any red tinge at all if your unit is calibrated correctly.

    To see if the filter is non-uniformly thick, show a 90IRE white field on AVIA and then rotate the filter (ie - unscrew it a bit) and see if the pinkish areas move around or not. If they do, your filter is defective.

    John
     
  29. rooster

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    Im really happy with my pj but after reading a few threads about using a filter I am curious to find out if I can improve the PQ . I have read a thread on avsforums where a lot of HS10 users don't like filters, though I have to admit they seem to be a minority. I tend to favour a bright picture and the loss of lumens using a filter has put me off up to now . I suppose i'll need to suck it and see. Anybody on here used one but then decided they liked it without filter or is it a big unanimous vote in favour of filter use.
     
  30. John_N

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    Errrrr.

    It depends on how big your current picture is and what your ambient light level is.

    The CC40R does give a better picture. The blacks are blacker and the contrast seems better.

    However, the whole picture is a little bit darker than it is without the filter on. Only fractionally, but it is there.

    It doesn't matter to me because I project onto a relatively small screen (only 180cm * 102cm) and I have light control in the room.

    To someone projecting onto a big screen and wanting the brightest possible image, obviously you might end up using more brightness and sacrificing the contrast ratio.

    Depends on your individual circumstances.
     

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