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HS10 :: First Impressions

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by loonatic, Mar 5, 2003.

  1. loonatic

    loonatic
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    Just got my HS10 and am currently using the supplied free 70" diag screen along with the 10m multi-lead.

    The room is 10ft square and I am sitting about 9ft from the screen.

    Have connected my Sony DVD player via it's component out, also tried s-video and did not find much difference.

    I find that the picture contains an awfull lot of noise and that the edges/outlines can be very jaggie. Also objects that are in the distance or out of focus can appear very pixelated.

    At first I thought it was simply because the image size was too large so I set the PJ to full-through mode and reduced the zoom setting to zero which makes the image only slighty larger than my 43" Pioneer 433HDE plasma.

    But it's still nowhere near the sharpness that I enjoy on my Plasma.

    Am I missing something ? or doing something wrong ?

    Would the screen make a huge difference to the picture quality as this sony screen was a free and only retails for around £100.

    Also, what about the cabling ? the 10m multi-cable that comes with the PJ seems very cheap and is too long for my needs. Would a good quality 5m s-video lead improve things ? I would rather keep the component out for the Plasma.

    Any tips or suggestions ?

    This is not my first PJ, I bought the HS1 when it first came out and promptly returned it a few days later. I did demo the HS10 before purchase but they had it setup with a proper screen and decent cables. I was expecting a huge improvement due to the higher resolution of the HS10.

    I am expecting too much ?

    Cheers, Lee
     
  2. John_N

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    I'm VERY surprised.

    To be honest, if you can't see a different between component and S-video then the first culprit has to be the DVD player. Has it got a fault?

    You should see a MAJOR difference between S-video and component output.

    I checked out the spec of the sony player you have and it wasn't a bottom-of-the pile cheap and nasty player so I would expect better to be honest.

    Maybe the unit is faulty. You should try the unit with a different source I suppose.

    You should definitely not be seeing noise on the picture.

    If you are expecting a picture to be identical to the plasma then you are going to be disappointed. The physics of the situation make it impossible. But then again - plasma displays are not available at 82" size either. You are not going to get a picture exactly the same as plasma except much much bigger - the resolution just isn't there! Likewise, shrinking the picture to 42" and then expecting it to be identical to a 42" fixed panel display is not realistic - the optics and the physics of the situation prevent it.

    With the HS10, I am viewing from 280cm back a picture which is 160cm * 102cm (82" diagonal) and with good DVD material I can see no pixellation or noise on the picture. The picture is perfectly acceptable and because of the size, you can see more detail, and the quality should appear to be very high because of this.

    So a few more specifics:

    What do you mean by "noise"? fixed panel noise? snow?

    Likewise I haven't seen ANY jaggies (de-interlacing artefacts) on the HS10..

    How far away from the screen are you standing?

    cheers
    J
     
  3. loonatic

    loonatic
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    I have now pulled my Sony DVD player out from my AV stack and have connected it directly to the PJ via a good quality 1m component lead and it's made no difference at all.

    Anything out of focus/in the background has what I can only describe as noise. It's as if it's snowing.

    The same DVD player using the same lead into my Plasma produces a lovely crisp image.

    I only have the PJ on loan until mine arrives in a week or two.

    It's a long story but basically I was sold a not-new unit by accident. My dealer was out so he got another dealer to send him one over which was then shipped to me without being checked and turned up in a used condition with over 90 hours on the clock. My chap is going to replace it when his new stock - from Sony - arrives.

    I am now hoping that the unit I have here now is somehow faulty and that it's replacement will be a huge improvement. If not it will be going straight back for a full refund.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  4. loonatic

    loonatic
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    Hi John,

    Just noticed you had edited your post - many thanks for your time.

    I too am about 2.8m away from the screen which is 70" diagional or 62" wide.

    I was not expecting it to be as sharp as my plasma but it seems worse than the HS1 I tried sometime ago.

    The background appear to have a snow effect but close up shots of someones face can look very good.

    On panning shots, both left/right and up/down is when the jaggies rear their ugly head.

    I have also tried my Sky+ using it's s-video out with the same results.

    Like I said I am now hoping that my unit is faulty.

    I gues I'll have to wait until it's replacement turns up.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  5. WebLoader

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    it is also worth noting that as this is a used unit then the settings may have been modifed. The hs10 has a very good scaler (you will see it in the menu described as DDE) and this should be enabled to get the best out of the unit. I have got sky+ via svideo, and when i have the DDE disabled then the sky banners and planner screens 'vibrate' just as they do on a normal screen. With dde enabled however, they become rock solid.

    hope this helps
     
  6. Klippie

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    Loonatic,

    I have just gone through this very same problem jaggies everywhere, its your dvd payer producing these annoying effects
    I am affraid to say, and Sky is just as bad.

    They are mostly noticed on sharply defined moving edges and movie titles it makes no difference whether connected by s-video or directly by component the jaggies are still there.

    Easy fix though a new player is needed something with progressive scan. I settled on the Philips DVD963SA, outstanding clear jaggie free pictures but it has other issues..... seems nothing is perfect.

    Hope this helps....
    Klippie.
     
  7. John_N

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    Hi

    Using SKY is not a good idea - the picture is supposed to be very bad.

    You should make sure that DDE is turned on as webloader mentioned.

    Projectors are not tolerant of poor signals. This is because the picture is so large. I suppose it would be conceivable that a plasma would show a nice image but the projector shows up the faults in it. This is why broadcast TV and sky can both look bad.

    I have never seen noise like snow in the background on DVD playback. Something is very far wrong there with your system IMO.

    Faulty or just poor DVD player
    Faulty HS10.

    You should certainly not see any "snow" on a DVD image. I do see a bit of snow on a TV image but this is because broadcast TV is not as good quality as DVD.

    If you are considering using something different as a source, I would seriously consider using a home theatre PC for the best picture quality. If you have a PC upstairs in another room that you can use this would be best.

    You can run a long 10M digital video (DVI) cable into your projector and also run a long 10M digital audio (SPDIF) cable into your amp from the computer. Even if you don't have a computer you can build one easily and cheaply - probably not far off the cost of a new DVD player (seriously!)

    For the absolute best picture quality this is the route I would recommend.

    I have a pretty good DVD player which cost nearly £1000 and also a home theatre PC. The PC gives a better picture.

    J
     
  8. loonatic

    loonatic
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    A HTPC is on my list of things to add to my setup but I was at least hoping for a watchable picture with my current setup.

    I have tried another newer, but not any higher spec, Panasonic DVD player with the same results.

    I tried viewing some pictures I had taken with my Sony F717 digi-cam via the memory stick slot and they looked outstanding.

    The DDE setting in the menu controls the scaler..correct ?

    If so it makes no difference what setting I have it at...surely this is not right...if I set it to off I would expect the image to deteriorate more - if that's possible.

    Anyway, I am going to pack it away for now and see what happens when it's replacement turns up.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  9. John_N

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    That's probably best.
    Goodness only knows what's up with your system but it's certainly not normal. Maybe the HS10 is broken... I can't imagine two DVD players being so poor.

    let's wait and see what happens with the new unit. Otherwise, m only suggestion is try using a good quality source - beg, steal or borrow a home theatre PC or use a known good quality DVD player.

    I watched "the bill" over composite video (worst quality) from the tuner in my video recorder this evening. I looked for "snow". I couldn't see any.

    John
     
  10. jimbobuk

    jimbobuk
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    How is the noise on the HS10.. i'm a stickler for this and any projector i go for is going to have to be above my head near enough... i've heard the HS10 is louder than some projectors... and am a little worried about that...
     
  11. John_N

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    sound level wise the HS10 is louder than I would like it to be.

    In a warm room it gets louder. In a cool room it isn't so bad.

    If the HS10 is running and you are listening to a movie at a moderate listening level with a full 5.1 surround system, you can only notice the HS10 hum in the silent parts.

    ALL projectors make noise to some extent. The HS10 could be quieter - no doubt about that - but to make up for that the picture quality is very very good indeed.

    At first I was going to send mine back.

    But after some thinking and using it, I decided I was overreacting and maybe listening for the noise rather than focussing on the movie. Now I don't really notice it.


    J
     
  12. jimbobuk

    jimbobuk
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    I will be using headphones and dolby headphone with my projector most of the time.. I could bring my isolating work cans home or use my 26db isolating etymotics and sit next to train and not hear it but sadly my cinema cans of choice are my Sennheiser HD600s, these are open and hence let all other sounds in :( I've made my PC near silent for this and other reasons... Thanks tho.. the 300u is supposedly nice and quiet.. but i'm worried about its handling of resolutions out of a PC.. :( no 1:1 mapping possible.. big prob when i'll be using PC to get Dolby headphone out..
     
  13. John_N

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    Best thing to do is to audition the HS10.

    It's easy to get too wound up about the fan noise level - it isn't all that bad! I was very sensitive to it at first but now to be honest I don't really notice it. That's why I haven't progressed my hush box yet.

    Yes sure I would love it to be silent, but any projector you get is going to make noise to some degree...

    I think your headphones should attenutate the fan noise to some extent even though they are open backed. Also your position WRT to the projector is important.

    J
     

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