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hs10 Avia setting seem off.

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by clancol, Feb 28, 2004.

  1. clancol

    clancol
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    My setting on my hs10 seem to be of after using avia. The picture quality is fine but i've found that detail is lost in dark area's and and shade of black from shadow to black are all the same Shade.

    I've therfore uped the brightness so that i can see more detail in the shade but i don't know if that the right thing to do. Also iv'e noticed that impact seems to have been removed from bright colours (like the green Eclipes in the fast and furious) after callabrating and fitting cinema filter.


    Any help please?
     
  2. Andy.T

    Andy.T
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    I think Avia would say that after doing their calibration your projector is accurately setup but that if you were used to over-bright, over-contrasty, over-coloured images it'll take you a while to get used to the new (more faithful) picture. Another thing they might (in fact do) say is maybe there is stuff you can do to reduce the amount of ambient light in the room which will help the image.
     
  3. Jules

    Jules
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    I have a Sony VW11 projector which has a very similar spec.

    I too find that the brightness needs upping just a tad from those indicated by Avia.

    I think this has something to do with the Sony, since it uses an active black level control circuit... or something.
    Basically I think it means anything near black level is reduced to black to improve percieved contrast.
    By doing this, it does make the Avia technique for setting black level pretty pointless.

    However, Avia is still useful for setting other parameters. I just adjust brightness by eye until the shadow detail in a typical film becomes just visible.
    This sometimes means my brightness setting is in the high 70's!
    It still looks ok though.
     
  4. vulkan75

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    Just a thought ...Avia is a U.S calibration disc,(I think)so realy nstc focused.

    Have you compensated for pal signal.
     
  5. Jules

    Jules
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    you don't need to with DVD. Evidence is with both my Region 1 & 2 versions of Star Wars Eposisode II and the THX optimiser on each. The black level dosn't need to be adjusted to achieve the same results with each disc.

    I think the DVD spec requires that players output the same black level for both NTSC and Pal sources.
    Pre-DVD there was a difference, but not any more.

    No, as I stated earlier, I think the answere to this one lies in the Sony projector which actively tracks black level. It works quite well, but makes accurate calibration using a reference signal almost impossible.
     
  6. buns

    buns
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    On dvd the black levels shoudl indeed be the same, however, not everything is and i have found necessity in the use of PAL and NTSC calibrations discs (though i am measuring and not using my eye). For most, i guess it wont matter as long as you can copy your ntsc settings.

    Anyhow, the topic..... what have you done about gamma? This is a very tough setting to deal with...... i would try fiddling with it and leaving brightness where it was

    ad
     
  7. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Black level voltage has nothing to do with it being DVD or VideoRecorder or Laserdisc. It has to do with whether it is NTSC or PAL encoding.

    PAL and NTSC are available on S-video and Composite outputs.

    YPrPb and RGB outputs are NOT PAL or NTSC encoded.

    This is where confusion arrises. Some DVD players apply 7.5ire for NTSC black level output to the component output that should not have it. The ideal is to just make sure your DVD player is set up for BLACK LEVEL: 0ire or Darker for NTSC source material.

    Cheers,

    Gordon
     
  8. Comer

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    Well that was a real conversation killer:D completely over my head anyway:confused:

    I found that the HS10 shows very poor shadow detail when using the Svideo or composite inputs from a DVD player ('must admit that it is an old low end player) I haven't tried the component inputs. No matter how I played with the settings using avia, without going into the service menus, I believed that there was no way to improve it. But when I tried a HCPC the improvement was very dramatic indeed. I considered the lack of detail in dark areas from the DVD player made the picture unwatchable.

    One example that comes to mind is the scene in LOTRs FOTR where Aragon is carrying Frodo out of the caves. When they look back into the cave just before they up the stairs the svideo input showed nothing in the distance but from the PC I could clearly see the boys firing arrows from across the dropoff and the cave carrying on into the distance behind them.

    Conor
     
  9. Kramer

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    I'm familiar with that scene & can't ever remember seeing the boys firing arrows :confused:

    Actually, that whole cave scene: I usually skip through it as I can't make out anytyhing on my HS10, just one big greyish blur :( I always assumed (until now) that the misty dark greyish black was deliberate by Jackson - highten tension etc. & get the viewer to appreciate the astounding score. I was a little dubious though as it lasted so long.

    Rented "Seven" recently, didn't realise it was a music DVD though. Nothing, just a dark misty grey screen for nearly two hours :(

    Still love my HS10 - really getting to appreciate the soundtracks with it :D
     
  10. theritz

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    Kramer,

    I'm very surprised and confused..... :confused: my 18 month old AE100 with lots of hours up (1200 low lamp) has a similar but different difficulty................. the said scene in LOTR FOTR is a shining example of clarity, a 3D quality to the said arrows.... however I'm afraid that the quality of the sound leaves a lot to be desired.....:rolleyes: Does your HS10 do DD 5.1 and DTS ? I can't bear to watch Seven on my AE100 - the picture is perfect, great shadow detail, perfect blacks, (what's this green mist you're on about ??) but the sound is awful...........

    Any help appreciated....



    Sean G.
     
  11. Andy.T

    Andy.T
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    Sound from my AE100 was a bit tinny too, maybe it was a bad batch?
     
  12. vulkan75

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    This is a wind up, right.:confused:

    You guys arn't seriously using yr projectors with sound are you.;)
     
  13. Andy.T

    Andy.T
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    Heheheh :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
     
  14. theritz

    theritz
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    I (and Kramer for that matter) have devoted considerable time and effort offering advice and guidance to fellow members here on picture set-up and AE100 tweaking in particular and don't appreciate being accused of "wind-up"....:mad:

    I believe that the AE100 was a ground breaking product and provides a brilliant picture - if it wasn't for it's entry to the market front projection would be a far-off dream for most of us. It's performance in the sound department really lets it down, though.... it struggles particularly with dialogue, where it has difficulty competing with the fan noise - I think they must be in the same frequency range. Any suggestions or tweaks for overcoming this would be appreciated......



    Sean G.
     
  15. Kramer

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    Just fired up LOTR FOTR on our (newly acquired - Christmas present) Bush 18" B&W TV & OMG :eek:. I can now see those "boys" you refer to Comer.

    I then ran Seven (Reg. 1, NTSC - no colour but no problems on the B&W TV) & again, OMG, there actually IS a picture on the disc :eek:

    Conor, you have opened a can of worms for me :( Hitherto, I was quite happy with my HS10 but after your comments about black level/shadow detail & poor quality via composite (my preferred & currently used video transmission method), I'm now thinking of revamping my setup & maybe aquiring a decent DVD player with component out (DVI even?).

    I now think that our 8 year old Limit DVD player may not be good enough (given the inadequecies now apparent by comparison with our new TV :smashin: ). I'll have to browse the DVD player forum to catch up on what's available/recommended at present.

    For what it's worth, I'm still very happy with the HS10's on-board sound. The only thing I'd really like is on-board DTS.

    Sorry for taking the thread off topic :blush:
     
  16. Comer

    Comer
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    The pitch of the sound coming from the hs10s speakers is set to completely cover the sound of it's fans. Something to do with a new development called IST ("Inverse Sound Technology.") For this reason I always use it's speakers in preference to my separate sound system. No matter what volume I up the system to, it never covers the sound of the fans as effectively as the HS10's onboard speaker


    Conor
     
  17. Comer

    Comer
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    Now, that has to be a joke;)

    Conor
     
  18. vulkan75

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    You guys are killing me.:D :rotfl: :laugh: :laugh:
     
  19. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    You guys are funny funny....

    My comments were, I thought, quite simple. Sorry if it went over your head. All I was saying is that if you have the ability to change the level black comes out of your DVD player it should only affect the composite and s-video sockets.

    Someone commented that the black level on DVD was different for DVD;s compared to other sources and I tried to explain that it isn't necessarily so.

    To really confuse you I could have mentioned that just because you can see detail when you turn up the brightness it doesn't mean you are SUPPOSED to see that detail.....but I wont ;)

    Gordon
     
  20. Comer

    Comer
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    Thanks Gordon, your post, of course, did make sense. :smashin: But just ask anyone who knows me and they'll say "it's very easy to put something over Cono'r head" Something to do with a head trauma when a CRT projector fell on my head as a child:D
     
  21. Kramer

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    :rotfl: :smashin:

    Gordon et al,

    Just injecting a bit of humour. I always knew where you were coming from (although I often can't remember where I've been :D ).

    Again, sorry for the OT posts but we're known for often digressing (into madness some would say :eek:)

    ...Kramer wonders whether he should invest in an SPL meter to really get the best from his HS10's on-board sound.......
     

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