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Hs1 - horisontal lines when vertical motion

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by tron, Jul 5, 2002.

  1. tron

    tron
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    I recently bought a Sony hs1 and am very pleased with it. However, there is one problem that bothers me... When the picture moves vertically, I quite often see HORISONTAL LINES in the picture (but only the moving parts are affected). I first assumed this was bad deinterlacing, but it now I'm not so sure (read on!)

    This happens with both tv- and dvd material as well as Divx-movies which should have been deinterlaced (!). I have tested Dvds on my Sony dav-s800 player directly via svideo out, svideo to Dscaler, PowerDvd 4 xp and Windvd 4 plus. I get the best picture from PowerDvd and Windvd, however - the artifacts seems to be exactly the same. Additionally, I cannot see these artifacts looking at any of my pc monitors.:confused:

    I then asked my girlfriend whether she could see the same artifacts and she could absolutely not :eek: I have still not "tested" more people.

    So the question is: Are anyone familiar with this problem? Can I do anything to get rid of the artifacts? Do I need an eye-transplantation???

    Tron
     
  2. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Are we talking very fine black lines, or slightly fatter almost cigar shaped lines?

    Cigar shaped tends to indicate poor de-interlacing. You can often see this sort of thing when a high quality de-interlacer is set to the wrong pull down mode i.e. set to video mode when playing film based DVDs.

    Fine lines are where the pixel gaps become apparent as your eye follows the direction of the movement on screen. Progressive scan helps with this but won't eliminate it.

    Regards
     
  3. tron

    tron
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    Thanks for the input Chris!

    I have now done a comparison with a ASK M3 projector (ultraportible, DLP, xga, 1100 Ansi Lumen), and it seems quite clear that it is the "chicken wire/screen door"-effect that is present. The M3 did not show this at all.

    I still am a little surprised as I'm actually sitting more than 2x away from the picture on my Hs1, and even when zooming down to the minimum this is a problem (too me at least)

    I also didn't know that this effect is so dependent of motion. When the picture is still, it is beautiful, but not so otherwise...

    I tried to de-focus, and it helped, but my girlfriend did not like the "blurry" picture (neither did I).

    So my question is again: Can I reduce this "horisontal line effect" in any way?

    And: Do many of you experience the same thing? (Or is this very individual, just like the "rainbow effect" for DLPs)

    Tron
     
  4. gavan

    gavan
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    Don't know about reducing the effect for you, but I don't see it myself. I do however frequently make out a vertical line structure when there's a greyish/blueish background.


    Gav
     
  5. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    You're welcome.

    Try reducing the sharpness setting. If you have a copy of AVIA or Video Essentials use their sharness test patterns to judge the correct level.

    Some LCD projectors are better than others. Pixel gap appears to play a part in how noticable the effect is. Unfortunately you can move the pixels.

    Regards
     
  6. jrwood

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    What refresh rate are you using on your computer>projector?, if it isn't 60hz then try changing the display adaptor to 60hz refresh rate and then autoalign the signal (I presume the HS1 has that button like my Sony CX1).

    If that doesnt help you can slightly defocus the projector a tiny amount.
     
  7. tron

    tron
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    To better illustrate the problem - see attached picture (from "The Matrix").

    I'm sorry about the bad quality (I don't know much about photography - either...)

    It did help somewhat reducing the sharpness, but not as much as I would have wanted... I have ran the video card at 60 ,72, 75 and 85 Hz without seing any big differences. I have also pushed the "apa" (self adjust) button.

    Is what you see in the picture normal for the Hs1?

    Tron
     

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  8. tron

    tron
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    See also attached - picture with no motion
     

    Attached Files:

  9. tahustvedt

    tahustvedt
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    It's a LCD-artifact. It appears in bright, moving areas, especially with vertical motion. The M3 is DLP and doesn't show this artifact.

    an anamorphic leens will reduce this artifact to almost nothing.

    I'm NOT buying LCD for my next projector, I'm sick of the possible thing that can go crap (and I have had everything happen to mine).


    Tor Arne
     
  10. tron

    tron
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    Thanks for the reply. Seems like it's not (only) my brain after all...

    Tron
     
  11. tron

    tron
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    By the way Tor Arne...

    I saw your posting on the "vertical banding" problem. Is there a similar "horisontal banding" to reduce?

    Tron
     
  12. Malone

    Malone
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    Tron, its a shot in the dark but I had diagonal lines across my picture on movement only too, when the picture was static it was perfect this may or may not be similar to your problem, I changed the lead carrying the S-Video signal and hey presto, no lines at all.

    Regards Matt..........
     
  13. tron

    tron
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    Thanks for the tip. All suggestions are welcome :)

    tron
     
  14. gavan

    gavan
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    It's easy to get a bit paranoid about the picture - I found myself being ultra-picky about picture defects after I noticed the first dodgy pixel on my projector.

    I chilled out a bit since then and now small defects don't really rile me.


    Gav
     
  15. tahustvedt

    tahustvedt
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    I wish I could do that. :) I'm going crazy over every little bug in the picture. I'm not going to point out all the LCD-bugs, You don't want to see them.


    Tor Arne
     
  16. Steve D Green

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  17. tron

    tron
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    Yess! - that's what I need! But I'm not sure my girlfriend agrees...
    Thanks for the info

    Tron
     
  18. gavan

    gavan
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    You just have to remember that the technology is far from perfect, but at the same time consider that you've got a whopping great picture... Even with a few minor defects it's still light years ahead of a TV (and most TVs have _more_ defects than the average projector image ... it's just that we've grown used to seeing them).


    Gav
     

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