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Hoya FL-D + Panny...first thoughts

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Shockabuku, Mar 11, 2002.

  1. Shockabuku

    Shockabuku
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    Finally got a hold of the Hoya FL-D (not HMC) filter for the Panny last Friday & have been playing around with it over the weekend. Please note that the HMC is *not* available in the UK. You can, of course, order it from the USA, but after seeing the standard filter in action, I won't bother getting the HMC.

    BTW, I spent ages last night taking pictures & they all came out terribly. I got the same banding on the photos as Li On did when he first tried. Weird. They really don't do the pq any justice, but I'd be happy to chuck them on my website if anyone's interested.

    Here are some initial thoughts on the FL-D...

    1. It definitely doesn't *quite* fit the into the thread of the Panny. I've used electrical tape to keep it in place as it doesn't tend to leave goo behind when removed. Very easy to secure though, so my advice is go for the 55m filter & don't worry. Here's a picture of the filter in place. Oh, and here's a picture of the case if you're interested (you never know!)

    2. Brightness. Yes, it cuts a little out, but in my book this is a .good thing! In my (just about) blacked-out room, I have found the Panny to be rather bright, but this filte knocks just a little of that off. Suits me fine.

    3. My two bugbears with the Panny were the contrast & the green levels. Well, the green levels are no longer a problem. This filter does exactly what it says on the tin...kills all known greens dead. Well, ok, not quite, but it tones them down to how the Panny *should* have been in the first place (along with a little bit of adjustment on the projector itself). I've beefed up the red a little, & decreased the blue a couple of points & colours look very balanced to my eyes now.

    4. Contrast is better. It's still not approaching CRT (obviously), but with the brightness turned down a few notches on the pj, and contrast beefed up a bit, we're talking much closer to a decent DLP now. I did get quite distracted by the grey bits that I knew should have been black, but now less so. They're still grey, but a noticeably darker grey.

    5. I expect that many people will be using Li On's settings that he came up with after some excellent work with the Panny & Hoya FL-D HMC filter. Well, I would say that they're good to use as a starting point, but of course you need to adjust them to suit your own environment/screen/eyes. I needed to up the red a little from his recommendation, and I'm not too sure about using the "Dynamic" setting on the pj. I keep switching between that & "Natural", & I reckon Natural wins...Dynamic tends to make the whites brighter than Daz white....which is too bloomin white for me. I do like the increased contrast & "Zap" (scientific term) the picture get's with Dynamic though, so I'm fiddling about with settings to try & reach a compromise.

    My conclusion is....if you have a Panasonic PT-AE100E....get this filter! The improvement in pq for £20.99 makes it a no-brainer. If you can find one, of course. Jessops had two in the country apparently. Now they have one :D
     
  2. Jonny1973

    Jonny1973
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    What screen are you using it on?

    White or Grey? Bought or home-made?

    I'm using MDF and Dulux Icestorm 5.
     
  3. Jones_Rush

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    Shockabuku,
    On a 1 to 10 scale, how would you rate the AE100 overall picture quality before and after the filter ?.
     
  4. Guest

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    Quote
    "1. It definitely doesn't *quite* fit the into the thread of the Panny. I've used electrical tape to keep it in place as it doesn't tend to leave goo behind when removed. Very easy to secure though, so my advice is go for the 55m filter & don't worry"

    Has anyone worked out the best way to attach this filter....is the aforementioned tape method the best way?


    Best regards
    LittleT2
     
  5. Shockabuku

    Shockabuku
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    Hi all,


    LittleT2...
    I really wouldn't worry about the filter not being an exact fit. It took about 20 seconds to put tape around it...it fits well enough to only need a little bit of support.

    Jonny1973...
    I'm using a matt white Homescreen (you can see it here. It's a 6ft wide 16:9 pull-up screen with minimal gain (if any - I don't know the precise figure). Bought from the Widescreen Centre.

    Jones_Rush...
    Panny without filter = 7/10
    Panny with filter = 9/10
    Obviously, this is subjective, but I reckon it improves the picture by a good margin. All that's missing for me is that last element of contrast.

    I've chucked the pictures I took last night up on my website. However, they look terrible!!!! Definitely not representative, so please don't judge the panny/filter based on them. They're really up there so someone can help me out with what went wrong with the camera! They're here
     
  6. Guest

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    So the tape around the lens is just a cosmetic thing, and doesnt create any issues with performance, light seepage etc?
    It's a shame it cant screw in, i am terrbile about things like that..has anyone heard of compulsive disorder lol :)
    Best regards
    LittleT2
     
  7. Timh

    Timh
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    Mark

    Thanks for your initial thought's on the filter with the Panasonic, it sounds like I need to get hold of one.
    Out of interest are you using the lamp in High or eco mode?
    I noticed your loft is painted white, my Brothers Garage conversion is painted dark blue, you would be surprised what a large leap in contrast you get with dark wall's, he has almost no light reflection in his room, my lounge lights up when i fire up my PJ (magnolia walls) and it seems to wash out the image, I need to paint it dark but have to deal with the Mrs first.
     
  8. codling

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    Shockabuku

    would this filter only be useful with the use of a htpc.
    ill be using componant and wont be able to change the r,g,b settings.

    thanks cod
     
  9. Jones_Rush

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    Shockabuku,
    About dozen people tried to take digital images of the AE100 in action. All desperately failed to capture the true nature of this pj.
    The consensus is that there is an unavoidable side effect which happens between the LCD panel of the camera and the one of the PJ. The only chance to get a good picture of the AE100 would probably be to use film.
     
  10. Shockabuku

    Shockabuku
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    Hi again,

    LittleT2
    The tape is holding the filter in place, but you don't have to use loads or anything...just enough to keep it from falling off. The electrical tape stops any light seepage...no problems at all.

    Codling
    I haven't tried s-video or component since I fitted the filter, but I can pretty much guarantee the benefits will be equally good with all inputs. It will cut out a lot of the heavy green that the Panny displays as standard.

    Timh
    The projector is set to eco mode. You're dead right about the white walls though. Another great "upgrade" would be to paint my walls a dark colour, but there's no way the other half will go for that (it's the bedroom!). We're currently renting too, so it wouldn't really be an option. When we buy another place I'll make sure we can have a dedicated room!

    Jones_Rush
    Yep, I may have to dig out my old SLR & get some 800 film or something! Timh...you managed to get some good shots though. Any tips?

    I forgot to mention in my first post...Screendoor. This is reduced a little with the filter. Not a spectacular difference, but then the Panny doesn't suffer as much as many LCDs anyway. I tend to soften the focus just a tiny bit which makes screendoor just about invisible from 1.5x screen distance.

    Finally, if there's anyone around the Oxfordshire area who fancies checking the projector out with the filter, you're welcome to come along for a demo. I'm at that stage now where I'm happy to show it off :D
     
  11. Timh

    Timh
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    Mark

    Thanks for the info, sounds like we all need one, dont all rush out at once.;)

    When I took my photo's I left the camera in auto mode on a tripod, I think the tripod makes a huge differance, did you use one?
     
  12. Shockabuku

    Shockabuku
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    Hrmmm...didn't use a tripod...but I did wonder. As I don't have one, perhaps I'll use my patented modular support system :D Will try again when I get the chance this week. Thanks for the tip.
     
  13. jrwood

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    How much light loss occurs with the FL-D filter ?, roughly 10%, 20%, 30% or more?, I think I may suffer and get the HMC version ??!.

    Also http://emo.20megsfree.com/Theater/theater_pics.htm has some great screenshots, not sure how he took pictures of them but probably a digital camera?

    James
     
  14. Shockabuku

    Shockabuku
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    Hi jrwood. I think the FL-D is quoted at something like 94% light throughput. The HMC is more like 99%. I found the Panny to be a bit too bright in my room anyway, so the 6% or so I lose is no problem. To be honest, I don't think most people would notice anyway...the increase in contrast is worth the price of admission!

    Thanks for the link...those pics look really good. I'll keep trying!
     
  15. CSGardner

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    I know I've found these settings before .. but I've just searched AVS and connot find them again - please could you post Li-On's recommended settings. (When the projector arrives, it will make setting up much easier.)

    Thanks in advance,
    Chas
     
  16. Shockabuku

    Shockabuku
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    Here' s the link to Li On's HTPC/Panny recommended settings. Again, they're good for starters, but obviously you'll need to fine tune them for your conditions.
     
  17. Li On

    Li On
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    I read somewhere that the FL-D cuts around 40% light. The filter cuts much green and blue and less red. The 94%/99% only means the remaining 60% pass-through ratio. The major advantage of the HMC version should be a MUCH LESS reflected light back to the lens (remember, the 40% cut-off light). Hence the HMC should gives a better contrast picture.

    regards,

    Li On
     
  18. Shockabuku

    Shockabuku
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    Interesting figures Li On, thanks for the info. I'm very surprised to hear the FL-D cuts out 40% of the light....certainly doesn't appear that way to my eyes, but I have no way of scientifically measuring it. I guess what we really need is someone who has access to both filters....unlikely though!
     

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