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Hoya FL-D Filter, Suitable for DLP's ??????

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by braiden, Mar 15, 2005.

  1. braiden

    braiden
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    Hi

    I was just reading about this filter in the "Projector FAQ" and someone did ask the question that I need answered, but nobody answered it.

    I have a SP4805(DLP) and was wondering if these filters are suitable for all PJ's or just LCD PJ's

    Thanks :smashin:
     
  2. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    It depends on the colour imbalance of the lamp, and whether or not the colour wheel has been made to take it into account.

    I believe the 4805 may benefit more from a yellow filter as there is more blue than the other two colours. An 81C or 81EF may also work.

    The FL-Day filter is designed to cut mostly green, as the UHP lamps emit more green and blue than red, so to balance the colours you have to use the projectors individual RGB contrast adjustments along with proper measuring equipment (colorimiter) to get them to a colour temp close to or at D65. Reducing the green and blue will have the effect of reducing how bright the image looks and the contrast ratio.

    Adding the filter will opticaly correct the colours, though some adjustment will still be needed on the pj. Although the image will still be dimmer due to the filter, the contrast levels will not have been reduced so much, so the difference between black and white will be greater as will the CR.

    Is the image obviously blue/green? Look at a white image and see if it has a colour tint. If it looks white and things don't have a green/blue push, the you probably don;t need the filter. Is that your main reason for wanting one?

    Gary.
     
  3. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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  4. braiden

    braiden
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    Hi Gary

    Thanks for your speedy reply, I was just reading the FAQ projector thread and it seems that this filter enhanced so many pictures no end.

    Was just curious as I am trying to set my projector black and white at the moment and not having much succes.

    Had a replacement PJ back yesterday from infocus as my first one was faulty, and the picture in progressive scan was great, but today I was watching smallville today and noticed some flaring in the whites, on scenes with lots of sky in the background, also the same with matrix revolutions in the scenes where NEO is stuck in the train station.

    I never saw any flaring last night while watching I-Robot the picture was great, now I am a little confused.

    Braiden
     
  5. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    Hi Braiden,

    In many cases it may be purely because adding the filter warmed up the image and improved the blacks, and having used an FL-Day filter myself I can see why. Getting the additional benefits of colour accuracy and improved contrast is not as easily accomplished by eye though.

    The flaring you see sounds like you haven't quite got the white level set correctly - can your pj distinguish between PAL and NTSC inputs and remember settings accordingly? I'm wondering if perhaps you set the white and black level for one, but not the other. I'm just starting a sticky for basic calibration, so have a read on both the 'basic projector calibration' thread and the thread it relates too within. There's more info there that should help. What test disk do you have?

    Gary.
     
  6. braiden

    braiden
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    Hi Gary

    I have the PAL DVE set up disk. Finding it a tad un-user friendly though :( , Although I have printed off the three test patterns that have been posted in the setting blacks and whites thread and it does now look slightly better, although still not quite right, But not sure if this is down to the settings or the quality of the discs. On films like The Day After Tomorrow for instance there is hardly any flaring where as on the smallville disks it noticably more visible in certain seens, It seems to be inconsistent is what I think i'm trying to say. The smallville disks are also showing up some faults like white dots or small lines now and then.

    An example of my settings for instance is, in progressive scan mode the setting for contrast is down at 41 and brightness up at 53. Does that sound about right :confused:

    To clear up some confusion in my own mind should I be using all three test patterns to calibrate or just the SMPTE test patern :confused:

    Thanks :smashin:

    Braiden
     
  7. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    My personal feeling here would be to try the SMPTE pattern as it will set the levels correctly for video and can be done on the same screen so should be the easiest method. It should also reduce the likleyhood of flaring.

    See how you get on with it and let me know how that looks. Are you using any particular projector settings away from the normal modes?

    I think that it's possible that progressive NTSC will output black at the same level as PAL, whilst interlaced NTSC will output black at a lighter level if you've set-up for PAL. Do you play both PAL and NTSC disks and swap between interlaced and progressive from your player?

    Gary.
     
  8. Oakleyspatz

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    I also have a 4805 and your setting for contrast does sound rather low. This will result in a flat looking image with nothing black and nothing white but everything looking a little grey. I have mine both set to 52 ( 50 being factory preset) and unless your DVD player is a very good one indeed, I would set it to interlaced and let the extremely good Faroudja within the 4805 do the progressive scanning. The picture I find is much, much better this way as my DVD player is a modest Panasonic DVS75 which when set to prog scan produced the 'flaring' you mentioned.
    Also the 4805 is already calibrated to D65 and under independent testing it came out extremely close to D65 colour setting so adding a colour filter would, I assume, knock this out of wack.
    Are you using a HIGH GAIN screen to project onto?
     
  9. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    I've seen the S75 and thought it did a remarkable job for a what was at the time, under £100. Under rated IMHO. Maybe giving the pj a progressive image causes the flaring? Have you tried it with a vga input? I wonder if that has a similar effect. Was it fixable by adjusting contrast or was there not much that could be done to aleviate it?

    Funnily enough, the German site I linked to above showed their 4805 tracking D65 pretty much spot-on out of the box.

    Gary.
     
  10. braiden

    braiden
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    Hi guys

    Thanks for all this great advice, I am using the denon 500SD system which from what I can tell is pretty good in Progressive Scan mode.

    The picture in progressive looks looks very vibrant and is much more colorful than when in interlaced mode which compared to progressive looks flat and and not so vibrant.

    Gary you mentioned Calibrating the NTSC blacks and whites, can this be done using the pal disk and just switching the setting on the dvd player to NTSC or will I need a sperate disk??

    As far as the colour goes I borrowed the setting from an independent review here's the link if anyone's interested The setting are toward the end under the heading colour balance.

    http://www.projectorcentral.com/infocus_screenplay_4805.htm

    I figure they must have had it set to Progressive for the test as the offset colour functions are not available in interlaced mode.

    Danny not sure what gain the screen is :eek: but it's the LUMA DRAPER 69inch(diagonal) screen, I had a deal on it when buying the PJ

    Incidently I have already had one replacement and have spoken to the retailer about another due to ripples in the screen.

    Braiden
     
  11. Peter Parker

    Peter Parker
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    Hi Braiden,

    If you can switch the output to NTSC for PAL DVDs, that might work, but you might not be getting the best from your PAL disks. Does the player have a black setting or 0ire setting for NTSC somewhere? If so, use it as that will then allow both NTSC and PAL to have the same output for black.

    Did you set the white/black level whilst in progressive mode? I have heard that some (all?) players output NTSC black the same as PAL black, so again, you might not need to use an NTSC test disk.

    Judging by the two reviews, and the extra red in the colour wheel, the 4805 looks like it won't benefit from the fl-day filter like some other units would. That's not to say that a filter of some kind and ISF calibration would not improve the CR some more though.

    Gary.
     

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