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Hoya Filter and AE200 - Compensation Adjustments ?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Tempest, Dec 14, 2003.

  1. Tempest

    Tempest
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    I asked this deep in another thread, but perhaps it sort of got lost in the discussion so posting the question as a seperate topic.

    I'm sure there must be many others on here who whish to know exactly what I do, so I shall ask the question :)

    The well known and loved (by most) Hoya filter that we are fitting to our LCD projectors to remove the green cast.....

    I understand that this indeed cuts down the green, but you then have to adjust the RGB values (white balance???) to compensate back to an accurate colour balanced picture which still keeping the benefit of the filter.

    What I don't know as yet is (for my Pannie 200) what settings to alter and by how much.
    As the Hoya filter is a known quantity. I assume the amounts needed to compensate for it should also be a known quantity.

    I'd appreciate any of the experts! on here to offer their advice as to how to adjust the values on an AE200 to compensate for out beloved hoya.

    Many thanks
     
  2. theritz

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    Hi Tempest,

    The FAQ is your friend - there's a link there to info about the hoya FLD filter - primarily for the AE100, but the AE200 is practically the same.

    Excerpts:

    Already pointed out elsewhere is that you can only get access to the White Balance controls for R G and B if yo're feeding the AE100 a signal thru VGA i.e. from a pc or the likes of a ProV or Iscan.... Presume the same applies with the AE200. If you can't access the White Balance, imo the Hoya will not give correct colour performance - it will result in a darker image but reds will be too strong.


    Sean G.
     
  3. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Thank's theritz for that.
    Yes, I shall be feeding my AE200 from my PC.

    Just going to order my Sapphire 9600 (non pro) to drive the Pannie with. Got my sound running yesterday from my PC to my Amp and finishing of my wall mounted bracket tomorrow.

    Decorated the whole room down deep blue, painted projection wall matt black, and fitted up a air extraction system.
    The projector's output fan is right up against air ducting, that sucks the heat directly away from the unit and currently dumps the hot air in the loft space. (also avoids the heat building up in the room) quite pleased with my results and will take photo's when all running.

    But as said. I'm very close to actually running now. so wanted to know how to compensate for the filter I have when fitted.

    Last MAJOR job after fine adjustment to feet I have make to support and hold the AE200 by the case corners (trimming length to get image DEAD square on opposite wall) is to make my screen.

    Probably at moment will be pine frame with white blackout material, as in short test it appears pretty good.
    Unless I go for white painted/coated hardboard sheet.

    The thing I'm gonna get slammed for most of all is I'm going to be watching a 7ft wide screen from 7ft to 8ft away, 1:1 viewing distance....
     
  4. theritz

    theritz
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    Tempest,



    SLAMMM !!!!


    :D :D

    - Seriously, you'll have screendoor issues at 1x width seating distance............................ 10ft from a 7 ft screen give screendoor issues with an AE100................................ just make sure you try it for real before doing/ making anything too permanent........ I'd try a 6ft screen and sit 8 ft away, you stand a better chance, even though that's far from ideal...................

    At the end of the day there are all sorts of compromises in this hobby - if you're happy with the set-up you choose, then that's the main thing.

    All the best,


    Sean G.
     
  5. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    I agree with Sean,

    You're going to need a smaller screen and/or sit further away.

    However, you may be able to alleviate the screen door a little by defocussing slightly. This is the best method that is guarenteed to work, as it can be done without noticably effecting the image too much.

    Many people have also noticed a reduction to screendoor by using a lens filter, and as you're going to be using one, that's a start. I've also read of people noticing a reduction in screendoor when changing from a white screen to a grey screen (many of Don Stewarts Grayhawk Beta testers also reported such findings), so this could be another option, though combined with the filter, this may produce a dim image.

    Seans idea of a 6ft image and sitting 8ft away is probably the best compromise, and combined with a little defocussing and the filter, you may only notice screendoor in white parts of the image, such as credits.

    At least with a blackout screen, it won't cost much, and you'll be able to cheaply evaluate and adjust the size accordingly.

    Good luck!

    Gary.
     
  6. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Ok Ok.. I'm well slammed :)

    With the projector in it's final resting place and at the maximum zoom for the AE200 I will be able to get just over a 7 foot wide image.
    I suppose as I'm new to this BIGGER seems better.
    I will easily be able to zoom down past the 7 foot towards a more sensible 7 foot.
    But it's hard to waste 12 inches !!!!!!!!!!

    At least I will have the option.
    I'm also thinking of the future in my setup and heat extraction system, so at a later date with a higher res projector I will more easily get away with it.

    I shall just have to see how much it bothers me, cos I'd have to say right now I don't FEEL that bothered by a bit of screen door. The image size and OH MY GOD LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THAT THING factor is outweighing the ohh look I can see a fine grid in light scenes complaint.

    When I took my girlfriend into a shop (looking at a Z1 actually) a few months ago. We were sitting about 4 feet from a 6ft image and she never commented on any screen door. I had to show her what I was talking about, and even then, she just thought I was being fussy. She was doing what we all SHOULD be doing I suppose, which is watching the film and not looking at the screen !!!

    Anyway you can be sure I shall be only to quick to post my thoughts on here when I finally get my setup working.

    Just as I said, got to finish my mount.
    Bought 3 different types of stand, and have settled on a silver wall mounted video stand (can hold 33lbs) with some custom feet made from a hard black plastic, drilled, tapped, and milled out at work. which will support and hold the AE200 upside down, just resting on the very corners of the case.
    Whe finished there will be no way the projector can move and it will be hardly touching anything. plus as said above the fan at the back is right up against an extractor duct that is sucking air away at 160cubic metres/hour.

    Not sure how much air thruput the AE200 gives, but seeing as the inline ducting fan I bought (£50) is a high power model giving the same suck! as two standard 4" fans. I'm guessing I'm sucking a LOT more than the AE200 can pump out the heat, so I'm probably not only pulling all the heat away from the unit, but also passing more cool air over the unit to.
    To be honest it seems an ideal system, just a pity it took so much work to get going (and thinking how to do it)

    Have got good electrical system so 1 double pole power switch controls power to the fan/duct and the projector. so there is no way the projector can work without the fan working also.
     
  7. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Ummmm, I'm confused here.

    Just gone to the FAQ page where you type in your phrase and it's finding nothing at all ????

    What's going on here....
    Type in HOYA it finds nothing
    Type in FLD it finds nothing
    Even type in AE100 and it finds nothing......

    Hmmmmmmmmmmm. puzzled.
     
  8. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Use the search engine - I got these results:

    http://www.avforums.com/frame.html?...by=lastpost&sortorder=descending&pagenumber=1

    Getting back to your other post and screendoor - if it doesn't bother you, then you're laughing! You've nothing to lose by trying out the 7ft screen, so go with your initial set-up, and it's not going to cost you much if you feel you need to change anything.

    I know of a few people who sit close enough to see screendoor, and it doesn't bother them, and if you can enjoy the film and forget stuff like that, then you're quite lucky - many of us here seem to find that the film is the last thing we're looking at. ;)

    Have fun!

    Gary.
     
  9. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Well, my other option would be to take my glasses off, and I won't see any screendoor at all :)

    Cheers for the search link.
    I'm beginning to wonder if I'm using the right FAQ seach thing.
    Just where on this screen is the area I should go ?

    I was going to the upper frame where you have 3 drop down boxes and choosing the bottom right drop down menu and selecting AVFAQ
     
  10. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Tried again:

    ==================================
    AV Frequently Asked Questions
    Email password Not registered? for special features.
    Existing user and forgotten your password? Click here.

    Searched for all of the following search word(s): 'hoya' in all categories.

    Your search failed to find any matching records.


    Frequently Asked Questions

    Search: (optional)
    All Any Exact

    Subject:
    All subjects


    ====================================

    I must be doing something wrong as it could not find the word hoya...
     
  11. Kramer

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  12. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Scroll to the top right hand corner of this screen, and you'll see 10 red oval button thingies. The first says "user cp", and the 7th is the "search". The other three are larger and underneath.

    Click the search, and enter the words you want and any forum preference if you have one. I just entered ae100 and Hoya IIRC

    HTH

    Gary.
     
  13. Kramer

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    Your link just points at this thread :)
     
  14. theritz

    theritz
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    Tempest,


    Your search for the "FAQ" I referred to in my post is too funny not to be true...................:D

    There are two "stickeys" on the forum, one from Spectre asking folk to check that their email addys are current, and the other is the Projector FAQ, where you'll find a link to a thread about the Hoya filter, amongst lots of other goodies......

    Here's the link.............. .... just to make it easier......;)


    Don't obsess over my comments about seating distance - it's just a friendly observation, enjoy your new toy.................


    Sean G.
     
  15. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Thanks Kramer - I just copied and pasted without checking - the link opened up within the same browser window but of course didn't change the address to match. Doh!:suicide:

    It's almost like the blind leading the blind - but it was late (and still is) and that's my excuse. ;)

    Gary.
     
  16. calscot

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    Brightness wouldn't be a problem with filter and greyscreen if you go for a five foot screen and contrast ratio would be significantly improved. The bigger the screen, the less the contrast. Fact.

    5ft screen at 8ft distance would still be a bigger effective screen than most people as screen size is relative not absolute. A 5ft screen at 8ft viewing distance is a relatively bigger screen than a 10ft one at 18ft distance.

    When sitting at less than 1.5xScreenwidth there is also the danger of getting "front row syndrome" where you get fatigue watching a film as you have to move your eyes and head all the time to take in the whole picture.

    1.5 to 2.0 x screenwidth sitting distance is far more popular. I personally usually sit 1.85 x screen distance (6.5ft / 12ft) but with guests I sometimes sit about 1.5x. I much prefer the former.

    My recommendation would be to go for a 5ft screen and reap the benefits of a punchy higher contrast picture with less pixelisation and it's more relaxing to watch.
     
  17. Tempest

    Tempest
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    Thank's for your SENSIBLE advice.
    You have to remember at the moment this is a big novelty to me, and as with most new owners I guess bigger seems better.

    I will still inititally stay with a 7ft screen (home made fixed screen)

    If I decide that it is hard to watch or screen door becomes an annoyance I can simply zoom the projector down and cut down my screen, so no hardship really.

    Again thanks for your thought.
    Give me my play time 1st though :)
     
  18. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Yup, some good advice there. Let us know how you get on. Some pics of your set-up can help others in a similar situation too. :)

    Calscot: "The bigger the screen, the less the contrast." I've not heard that before, so was wondering if you could explain that for me. The reduction in ft lamberts due to a bigger screen size would be relative wouldn't it?

    Cheers.

    Gary.
     

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