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How to power an AV32R?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by spiderv6, Jul 15, 2003.

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  1. spiderv6

    spiderv6
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    I'm arranging demos with Arcam and Tag top of my list.

    I've read various negative comments about the 100 x 5R.

    So, what's the views on how best to power the AV32R.

    Obviously, compared to the P7, it has two less channels but right now I don't care because a) I don't have 7 speakers and b) the wife ain't gonna let it happen. Not yet, anyway.

    So the 100 x 5R could infact be a good purchase because in the future I could buy a couple of the Tag monoblocs to run the front pair (and hopefully boost the performance of stereo listening) and reassign the 100 x 5R to run the two new speakers.

    In the end, I'm asking what I should get the dealer to use when I demo the AV32R apart from the 100 x 5R.
     
  2. buns

    buns
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    bryston 9B-sst??

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  3. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    You don't want anything to do with the Tag 5x100R in any way. Trust me.

    You know that the Arcam P7 is not only better, but cheaper, and has 7 channels rather than 5?

    If you want to go higher up the chain than the P7 then Bryston or (if you don't mind a slightly more laid-back sound) Meridian amps are a possibility. A lot of people swear by Parasound amplifiers, but they're a bit thin on the ground. Ditto Kopland. You could try something a bit cheaper - Rotel being the obvious candidate - or perhaps ask for a selection of Cyrus monoblocs....
     
  4. spiderv6

    spiderv6
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    Nicolas,

    Why not? What's up with the 100 x 5R? I'm sure you have heard it.

    Are there technical issues or does it just sound s***t?


    I will go higher up the chain if I have to but you know very well what happens when you start to play that game.... :D
     
  5. alexs2

    alexs2
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    The tag 100x5 amp is very nicely made,but lacking in depth and soundstaging,weak in the lower bass regions,and definitely not so good in the current delivery stakes either.

    If you want a decent selection of amps to go with your AV32R,consider Bryston,Arcam P7,Rotel,and another possibility if budget allows is a set of used Krell KMA/KSA's or perhaps one of the KAV series.....how much did you want to spend?
     
  6. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    The latter.
     
  7. buns

    buns
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    The 100x5r is better than all other Tag and Audiolab kit (yes all those mono blocks except the new 250r)

    I knew i could remember someone said this. To say the 100x5R then suggests that pretty much all the tag power amps are not very good.

    I dont have direct experience of the tag but not too long ago alot of people were keen on it, so how come it's getting stick now?

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  8. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Buns....I'm only drawing from my own experience,in comparing it(maybe unfairly)with Krell KMAs,and Chord amps.....it simply doesnt measure up,and for what it's worth,I didnt like the sound of them when they first came out....smooth certainly,but never gave the feeling of easy power and control....very flat and dynamically limited.
     
  9. nathan_silly

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    I've compared Rotel 991/993 to my PX's.. the Rotels are very good, with higher output than my Audiolabs PX, but IMO the Audiolabs sound better.

    So if someone said the Tag 5x is better than the PX, but worse than the Rotel 5 chanel poweramps, I would say they're talking out of there arse.
     
  10. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    Indeed, i have just moved from Rotel 993's to Tag 125m's and am most happy.


    Steven.
     
  11. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    I've not much experience of Tag amplifiers other than the 5x100R, but a very brief listen to some Tag 250 kit suggested it was rather better.
     
  12. Spligsey

    Spligsey
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    The Meridian 558.2 is a heavyweight, very good indeed.
    Can go from outrageous output to a delicate touch with ease.
    (Their monster 559, 2 channel units are great too - but that's a different subject)

    I wouldn't call the Parasound 'thin on the ground'.
    It's better suited to 5 channel than straight stereo stuff.

    It used to power my M&K setup easily.

    Then, of course you have the other usual suspects....etc..etc

    Adzman
     
  13. alexs2

    alexs2
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    The Parasound amps are quite under-rated in this country,and generally very well priced....I havent heard the Halo series,but the 5 channel amp has just reviewed very well in HiFi News,and IMHO the other amps are good sounding,load tolerant and good value also...well worth a look.
     
  14. buns

    buns
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    Ah right, thats ok! It just seemed a bit like the tag was being bashed! :D

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  15. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    I meant that not all that many dealers actually stock them.

    I very much like the Meridian 558.2, but I know some people find it too laid back.

    Bryston SST series are all rather nice. Even the old 9B-ST is a perceptible step up from the Arcam P7, which in turn is a perceptible step up from the 5x100R.
     
  16. Anodyne

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    A couple of negative comments from people whose taste might differ from yours doesn't mean the Tag 100x5R is a bad amp. Many people use them and like them, plus they obviously have a certain synergy with other Tag products.

    There's an old saying: Two swallows don't make a summer....

    Will
     
  17. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Given that this statement is incorrect, in what sense is it "obvious"?
     
  18. Anodyne

    Anodyne
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    How is it incorrect to assume that Tag products work best with Tag products?
     
  19. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Because in the case of the 5x100R, it doesn't.
     
  20. alexs2

    alexs2
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    Whilst Nicolas's reply leaves little room for argument,he is correct,as there are many better amps to partner the AV32R with.
    I've directly compared the 100x5 Vs my Krells and some Chord amps,and there honestly isnt any competition between them.
    I've heard favourable reports regarding the Tag monoblocs,but in my case anyway,have no reason to change.
     
  21. roversd1

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    Nicolas, how is that statement going to help Mr. A. Buyer make his purchase? Wheres the relevence?
     
  22. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    The relevance is that, unless slew and settling time are both exactly zero, then a power amp must be introducing distortion, because the shape of the output signal cannot precisely track the shape of the input signal. How audible that distortion may be is another question, but statements like
    are clearly simplistic, at best.

    In fact, if you follow that logic to its conclusion, then clearly the pre-amplifier can't have any influence on the sound either, because a "properly designed" pre-amplifier will only scale down the signal it receives (the precise reverse of what a power amplifier does) and thus it will have "no signature of its own", either.
     
  23. roversd1

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    OK then Nick, I'll bite; where are the slew & settling ratings listed?

    'simplistic' because this is a general forum for established owners and first time buyers to seek advice on buying new products / upgrades.

    This is not a place to be told 'dont buy that 'cos its sh**. Especially when you have no evidence whatsoever to back up your claim.
     
  24. Ian J

    Ian J
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    roversd1,

    Do I know you under a different name ?
     
  25. spiderv6

    spiderv6
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    Beginning to wish I'd never asked!

    Anyway, demo set up for Saturday pm and I will squeeze as much as I can of the following into two hours;

    AV8/P7/DV27
    AV32R/100x5R
    AV32R/250x3R/250MR(2)
    AV32R/P7
    AV32R/Bryston

    Will let you know.......

    :D
     
  26. NicolasB

    NicolasB
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    Most amplifier manufacturers don't list slew times or settling times, which is a pity, because they would be better guides to amplifier performance than the usual measures like Total Harmonic Distortion. I dare say that's precisely the reason why most manufacturers don't quote them.

    Some do. Bryston, for example, quote a "slew rate" - click , for example. Graham Slee used to quote a settling time for the op amp chip used in his Solo headphone amp, but doesn't seem to any more....

    But the fact that you're asking that question indicates that you're missing the point. The point is simply that slew and settling times exist. It doesn't matter what the values are, the simple fact that they aren't zero means that any amplifier must, by definition, introduce distortion.


    Please learn the difference between "simple" and "simplistic".


    Other than the repeated evidence of my own ears, and those of the majority of the other people on this forum who have listened to the Tag 5x100R, you mean?

    For the record: I will bet you £1000 that, given a high quality music source and pre-amplification, a good classical recording, good room acoustics, respectable speakers, and a couple of hours to play with, I can tell the difference blindfold between a Parasound HC2205, Meridian 558.2, Tag 5x100R and Bryston 9B-SST amplifiers. Want to take me up on that?
     
  27. Spligsey

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    The average bloke on the streets will not have a TAG 100X5R.

    Adzman
     
  28. nathan_silly

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    Yeah he's only got a Pro-Logic TV (and he thought about using THAT as a volume control into a poweramp!!):rotfl:

    And when he demoed the Bryston SP-1 processor from a hifi shop he then bought it on-line.. very nice that.

    IMO he sounds like a Audiophile.

    Seems to preach alot what is perfect, spending hundreds of hours reading info or driving up & down the country pissing off dealers and never buying stuff.

    And Nic said this a while ago "I'm partially deaf. On the face of it you would have thought I would be less sensitive to distortion, noise, interference, etc. than many other people. "

    When my right ear blocked up, my system sounded awful. Would I still comment on kit if my ear remained blocked up? Nope.

    In other words, he's in no position to talk about the sound.. basically I just listen to him about build & design of a product, not processing, sound from speakers etc.

    Have a go a me Nic.
     
  29. roversd1

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    Me? I used to work in the industry for about 10 years on and off ranging from boring assembly work right through to accoustic research & design. Then worked for a few Hi end retailers, had my own shop and now sit quietly passing the time of day with my two cats and a PC.

    I have about 300 DVDs, a big Wega due for replacement and have owned literally hundreds of stereo amps/ AV processors and speakers.

    I'm no audiophile, for me that term smacks of arrogance, I'd rather people just own stuff because they like it.

    Correct Spligsy! The average geezer will more likely have Rotel amps....
     
  30. Spligsey

    Spligsey
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    Not even that far mate...

    They'll have integrated amps/ all in one's


    Spligs
     
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