Question How to improve the video processing if using Epson 9400w but source = skyq and LG C8.

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by jabriel, Jun 15, 2019.

  1. jabriel

    jabriel
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    Hi all,

    I demo'd the benq 2700 and the Epson 9400 recently. I've not owned a projector before so this will be my first projector.

    Thoroughly impressed by both. Saw the image of the 2700 first, then the 9400. I would need the 9400w as I need a white projector. ( It's a family room with a white ceiling and light pastel green walls.)

    Unfortunately for me that means if I choose the 9400, I've got to pay a premium. Roughly £3-400? The wireless bit doesn't help me as I've already run an optical cable when refurbishing the house. Plus a trigger cable and cat 6 cables too. So a lot more to pay for a white case rahter than a black one. :(

    Despite this, I'm leaning towards purchasing the 9400w. Mainly due to the difference in the noise. The picture quality/image of the 9400 was better but wasn't twice as good, in my opinion anyway. Plus my eye is not as well trained or tuned as yours. Also, the noise of the 2700 would annoy me. Especially as I'd be say directly below the projector.

    I need some opinions on weather it's worth me getting the 9400w as my source would be sky Q and the LG C8 (for prime). I watch mostly movies and sport. I have Netflix so could use skyq for that. Not sure if it's possible to watch Netflix or prime on the projector with the C8 as my source?

    I don't have a blue ray player and don't intend on buying one as I've got no intention of buying discs. I could buy one though if it can improve the video processing or if it somehow allows me to watch prime on the projector rather than on the c8. Even if it means buying a used modified oppo. Not sure if this is possible though?

    Fyi, my processor is an Anthem 720.

    What are you thoughts? Is it worth paying the extra for the lower noise levels?

    Can I use skyq but somehow improve the source? Even if means buying additional equipment to make this happen. (Not intending to buy discs though.)

    Mods, lets me know if this isn't the best place for this thread or feel free to move it to where you think it's best suited.

    Thanks in advance and looking forward to hearing your opinions.
     
  2. gav_sw20

    gav_sw20
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    Any decent store would have told you to go for the 7400 if you have a real-world living room e.g. light coloured walls and ceiling.

    The 9400 is tailored more towards bat-cave environments as this allows the deep blacks to come out.

    The 7400 only comes in white (because it’s aimed at a market who have light-coloured walls / ceiling) and is £1800, so immediately cheaper than the 9400. Keep an eye on Amazon as they dropped to £1400 the other week.

    Epson EH-TW7400 3LCD Projector Review

    Best cheap bet for Prime viewing would be a 4K FireTV which you plug into your Anthem.

    Sky Q will only look as good as it can really. Sport looks good but older stuff (GOLD or non-HD channels) will look grainy. Whatever processor you’ve got isn’t going to make Dell, Rodney & Grandad pop off the screen in 4K bliss :)

    Discs always beat Sky, download a Sky Q movie and compare the size to what’s on a 4K disc, it will be at least 70% smaller in size as it’s a lower bitrate. Plus the audio is always much poorer and not a lot of movies include Atmos / DTS-X.

    I’m not a huge streamer but you may want to look at a Nvidia Shield and Kodi for decent 4K UHD material.
     
  3. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Source to Projector - the better the quality the Source the better pretty much any projected image will look.

    Projector - I don't get on with DLP so we would be suggesting Epson too and as gav_sw20 says we would be supplying the EH-TW7400 as a good match with your room and budget.

    Streaming - your TV is not designed to act as a streaming device for other Display devices, ATV 4K is a good option if you want a simple solution.

    Video processing - your source device, broadcast and streams will not be consistent so you will see differences between some content and others, trying to 'enhance' the image before it hits the projector will cost more than the Projector costs! (Have a look at Lumagen as a reference).

    Configuration - learning to tune (Calibrate) the Video Projector to your room and viewing space is the affordable 'tweak'.

    Joe
     
  4. jabriel

    jabriel
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    Thanks for the detailed replies chaps.

    In defense of the retailer, it was my request to view those specific projectors. I've now requested a demo of the 7400 and the 9400 so I can see first hand the difference between them and if one is noisier than the other?

    Agreed the skyq stuff will never be anywhere as good as discs but I'm willing to live with it.

    Don't watch a lot of SD so not fussed how shape Rodney does / doesn't look. :)

    Will look I to Nvidia and Kodi. Not a fan of apple so not willing to explore that route. Regardless of what it brings to the table. (For the time being anyway)

    Have considered calibration previously. Am thinking I'll buy the projector, play with it a little and at some point in the future, have it calibrated.

    Any tips on what I should be looking for during the demo?
     
  5. gav_sw20

    gav_sw20
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    If you do demo 7400 try to ensure it’s in room with equivalent light coloured ceilings / walls. The 9400 really is a not worth the money unless you’re in a light controlled room.

    Good luck.
     
  6. jabriel

    jabriel
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    Good advice.

    Interestingly though, when I tried the 9400, there were white walls and a white ceiling with some daylight coming through. The image looked good to my (untrained) eyes.

    Sadly though where I'm going to demo they only have a dark room (black walls and black ceiling) but the door to the room can be left open to let light in.

    Will let you know how I get on.
     
  7. gav_sw20

    gav_sw20
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    The monies you save on the 7400 will get you a good calibration (£250ish) and a Nvidia shield plus a few hundred leftover.

    Don’t get it calibrated right away though, make sure you put some hours on it first, 50 minimum I think is the typical rule.
     
  8. jabriel

    jabriel
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    Thanks gav_sw20.

    Just looking into nvidia options. Will need to search and read up on streaming options but nvidia seems a great option already. It has everything I would use.

    As far as I can see, the differences between both projectors are:

    1. 200lm less on the 7400
    2. 200,000:1 contrast ratio on the 7400 Vs 1,200,000:1 on the 9400
    3. WIFI connectivity on 9400 (not important to me)
    4. HLG on the 9400
    5. 4K 60p HDR with 18gps support on 9400

    Not sure if there is any difference in the fan noise?

    As a lay person and someone without experience of this stuff, I don't really understand what "HLG" and "4k 60p HDR with 18gps support" is or what it means in the real world. Are there any simple to follow guides on this? Would I be losing anything in the viewing experience by opting for the 7400?

    Bearing in mind I don't have a bat cave but do have blackout blinds and almost all of my viewing will be in the evenings and weekends and is sports or movies, can someone help with:

    1. Which of the above points should be ignored in favour of the 7400 and why?
    2. If I get the nvidia, is there an advantage in getting the 9400?
    3. There is a significant difference in the contrast levels. Would this not set in setting up the 9400 in a non bat cave environment?

    Sorry if any of these are dumb questions and thanks in advance for taking the time to respond.

    ETA: I have skyq, UHD and the premier netflix package - can't remember what it's called.
    Can see myself buying a media player or Fire tv at some point in the future.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
  9. jabriel

    jabriel
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    Good points! Thanks.
     
  10. gav_sw20

    gav_sw20
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    One assumes you’ve seen this thread - Epson TW9400/7400

    HLG gives richer colours and better contrast - but you’re only going to really benefit from from this in a bat-cave environment with light control. Again, the same for contrast ratio.

    Yes you may have blackout blinds but the light coloured ceiling (and walls) is what will affect the contrast.

    18gbps support is aimed towards gamers who play fast-paced games that require absolutely zero lag.

    There’s not many comparisons between the two models in the UK but there a few from overseas (hence the USA model numbers) - Epson Home Cinema 4010 vs. 5040UB

    I too am comparing the Benq / 7300 / 9400 and am going with the 9400. But I have dark floors and walls, a black ceiling and can control the room for zero light so am going with the 9400.

    Save some dosh and buy the 7400.
     
  11. diablo

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    I have the 9400 and Sky Q UHD in a room with light walls and ceiling.

    Sky Q have been promising HDR for a while but it hasn't arrived yet. If something is on Netflix which is in HDR (for example the new Our Planet series) I will watch it through my Roku UHD box rather than Sky Q. The HDR version does have some noticable benefits even in my room.

    Though is it worth the extra money? :thumbsdowDunno.
     
  12. Luminated67

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    If you don’t want to change your walls then maybe your best option is to look into a high contrast screen. They don’t come without their issues but it’s really the only alternative.
     
  13. Thatsnotmynaim

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    In my personal opinion better contrast between 7400/9400(w) WILL be noticeable even in a lounge setting. The less reflective and darker a room can be made, the better it will look, but even in a non perfect room you will be able to see.
    Have you given any thought to the screen yet, what are you going for as this can also play a huge part of how good the results will be. Don’t spend a fortune on a PJ and then only spend minimal on a screen. If you’re in a light lounge type setup an ambient light rejecting screen (ALR) can make a massive difference but aren’t cheap, look up React screens.
    I tried an Epson 9300 vs a 7300 in my light lounge and the 9300 blew away the 7300. I later went to a JVC x5900 and that step was massive and clearly an improvement in my non batcave, much better blacks, colours and all round contrast improvement clearly visible.
    As already mentioned the 7400 does not have a full 18gb hdmi which is criminal, so SkyQ will not be able to be set at its highest quality output [email protected]), neither will the nVidia Shield or an Apple TV, whilst much streamed content is 24hz you’ll not always see issues, but many uk tv type things (After life etc) is [email protected] with HDR, this needs 18gb. Also games machines tend to output at 60hz by default so can moan if not an 18gb hdmi socket. Some people say don’t worry, I say if you have a choice get the one with 18gb, especially as your TV will support it, you don’t want to change settings on source (say nVidia) to get the best out of them each time you switch between tv and pj.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 17, 2019
  14. Thatsnotmynaim

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    Just reread this post, re streamer, if you have an Anthem 720 which can do ATMOS and you want a streamer that best supports ATMOS, between the nVidia and Apple TV 4K, the Apple blows the nVidia away for streamed content - full stop! NVidia is best for Plex and streaming your own content from a NAS/PC - full stop, but Apple is WAY ahead for streamed content from Netflix, Amazon & especially iTunes as it supports more of the latest formats (ATMOS, HDR, Dolby Vision etc) and it does framerate and hdr switching to match content, eg will show 50hz content at 50hz, nVidia will show it at whatever you’ve set it to output as it doesn’t switch yet, so on Netflix/Amazon so you may notice judder. I have 3 nVidia’s and love them, but if I’m watching Netflix / Amazon I switch to my Apple TV 4K. Apple TV also are the cheapest source of 4k content from iTunes as they forced all their suppliers to NOT charge extra for 4k, so HD & UHD content is priced the same. Go to CheapCharts to see prices. Apple TV 4K also support Dolby Vision which should be good for your LG TV, you’ll get HDR DV & ATMOS if you’re not already getting that via your LG / Anthem, not sure if the TV can feed ATMOS to the Anthem or not, it may be a null point if you already can.
     
  15. jabriel

    jabriel
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    Yes looking at ReAct screens too. Thanks for sharing your thoughts (everyone).
     
  16. jabriel

    jabriel
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    Really helpful. So will have to add Apple TV back into the mix. Didn't realise they have netflix and prime too.
     
  17. Thatsnotmynaim

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    If you’re happy to entertain the idea (and cost) of a ReAct screen, then the argument for not using a better PJ in a non perfect room is greatly reduced. Making room improvements are probably cheaper, but if not practical a ReAct is a great solution.
    I don’t know the exact figures as can’t measure, so take this with a pinch of salt, but if in a perfect batcave type room you get 100% of the contrast benefit, and in a bright reflective white lounge you only get say 60%, a ReAct screen I’d say would pull that back to say 80-85%.
    Putting in a ReAct screen made a significant contrast difference to me. In my lounge an upgrade to a tw9300 was fantastic, going to a ReAct was an equally big upgrade. With the ReAct I could also clearly see the difference between JVC x5900/x7900 & x9900 in my non batcave.
     
  18. Thatsnotmynaim

    Thatsnotmynaim
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    Yes it has most things, also has fantastic 4k moving video screensavers!! Oh and cheap iTunes films to buy and rent, usually get descent rental films at 99p most weeks/months and plenty of 4k films as low as £5/6 and also bundle deals.
     
  19. Thatsnotmynaim

    Thatsnotmynaim
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    You having just jogged my memory, I've ordered another ATV 4K from here: Apple TV 4K 32GB for £134, comes from HK so explains why it says 6-8 days, think the extra 5% is only about fro a limited time, they always say that, but it is cheaper and Apple warranty is with Apple and is Worldwide no matter where you bought from.
     

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