How to hook up FS2 AV system (this is an awkward one)...

Discussion in 'Home Cinema Speakers' started by zsaddique, Apr 1, 2002.

  1. zsaddique

    zsaddique
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    Seeing as the FS2 AV set can be had for £369.55 from EmpireDirect.com I'm thinking of getting a pricematch somewhere local while the price is still low. I think it's time my Sony DAV-S300 speakers had a rest! :D

    What I'd like to do is temporarily connect up the FS2 speakers and subwoofer to the DVD/Amp box. Now before anyone says anything, I am aware of the funky connectors the existing speaker cables used!

    What I was thinking of doing is just using these cables and connecting the speaker end of them to the FS2 speakers. I think the box has a connection for an active subwoofer too so that shouldn't be a problem.

    However, recently a friend told me that the FS2 speakers need to be connected to the sub, and then that connects (somehow!?) to the amp. Is this really necessary?? So long as the speakers connect to the speaker connections and the sub to the sub, it should work, right?

    I'd appreciate any comments. Once I'm 100% sure I can hook these up to my Sony DVD/Amp I'll get them straight away. And then later when I purchase my Loewe Aconda I'll get a seperate DVD and amplifier to replace the Sony.
     
  2. Rochdale

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    I think the FS2 sub handles the crossover which is set at something like 235hz on the surround speakers because they are so different from normal speakers.

    Thats just something I picked up from browsing these forums though so may not be accurate, I don't have the FS2 set myself but was considering buying them.
     
  3. MartinCo

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    rochdale is correct, what you are suggesting wont work.

    the fs2s have to be wired up from amp to sub, sub to speakers.

    you can plug them in directly but there would be no bass anyway,
    plus you will probably break anyway trying this.

    do it the proper way.
     
  4. zsaddique

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    Okay, I did a bit of research and now understand why the speakers should connect to the sub.

    So this cord that connects the sub to the amp.. what's it like on both sides?
     
  5. MartinCo

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    custom going into the fs2 sub end,
    standard speaker connections at the amp end.

    does the sony have non-standard or unusual connections?
     
  6. zsaddique

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    The speaker cable for the Sony system is bare wire on the speaker end (is this what you mean by standard speaker wire?) and a chunky unusual connector on the amp end.

    Hmm..
     
  7. MartinCo

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    hmmm. not sure.

    you can probably wire them up somehow with help from Sony or & Mission with the connectors... but to be honest I dont know whether its worth it.

    whats the watts per channel on this Sony amp/dvd?

    you really need a decent amp to drive the fs2s... minimum of 60W, preferably 75W. they are fairly difficult/sensitive to drive, more than normal speakers.

    and yes.. thats what I mean by standard speaker cable.
     
  8. zsaddique

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    What a bomber! :(

    I just checked the specifications...

    Amplifier: 180 Watts Total System Power (6x30 watts; Front/Center/Rear 3 ohms, 10% THD, 120-10kHz. Subwoofer 3 ohms, 10% THD, 40 Hz-20kHz +/- 3 dB)

    I guess this means it won't manage the FS2 AV system??
     
  9. zsaddique

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    I'd like to get this straight...

    How powerful does an amp REALLY need to be to drive the FS2 AV speaker system?

    I'm no audiophile, in fact, apart from a relative's Bose setup, the best home cinema I've heard is my current Sony DAV S300 system, which I'm pretty happy with (sound-wise).

    But I want to get the FS2 AV set while I can and since I'm not gonna be blasting the sound in a huge room don't you think I'll get away with 30w per channel amplification (the specification of the Pioneer slimline amp I'll be getting with the new Toshiba slimline DVD player soon)?

    As long as I can play an action movie in a typical living room that's fine by me. Of course, I'd like enough power for me to feel captured by the movie, but like I said I'm not a pro, just a typical home user frustrated with the limitations of his Sony all-in-one system!

    So please, let me know your thoughts on if 30w per channel and and the FS2 AV set will do the job! ;)
     
  10. MartinCo

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    I would say categorically... NO... 30W per channel is not enough for the fs2-av set.

    if you look back at previous threads... try searching for something like volume & fs2 (looking now myself for the specific one), other people run their amps at higher than normal speaker levels.

    so an amp/receiver with a bit more grunt is needed... dont know what model the pioneer slimline amp you refer to is, but this may also be suspect for its intended task.

    most of the current marantz, denon, yamaha & sony models that do approx 75W should be okay.... but some better than others.. the quoted levels of most amps is not accurate, or based on non-standard loads.

    30W per channel doesnt really even get the FS2-av set started I would expect.

    I run my Denon 2802 at between -35/-25 for CDs, and upto -10/-5 for DVDs depending on their mastered sound level..

    sorry!

    :)
     
  11. zsaddique

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  12. MartinCo

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    no... sorry... not kidding.
    sure some of the other fs2 owners will back me up here.
    most are using Denon 2802/ 3802s, or Marantz 4200 upwards...

    all are 5x75W or greater.

    anyone who bought the fs2s at the original £800 price would have been using them with a comparably expensive and even higher powered amps... (e.g. £1000+ denon, yamaha amps).

    I doubt the Pioneer you link could drive them well in 5.1.

    why so much restriction on space for the components? really limits you.

    not many components will fit in such a space, and most are very low power/ facilities... usually to what you have aready 5x35W, and only with the speakers supplied.

    proper separates are always going to take more space.
     
  13. MartinCo

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  14. zsaddique

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    Thanks for the links (and for the email!) Martin...

    I guess the only solution is to get some proper AV furniture that will be able to store all these boxes I'm going to need for my Loewe Aconda and "home cinema" setup.

    But that's gonna cost quite a bit of money for decent furniture, and if it's not possible, the only other possibility for my new setup will be a "just add a DVD" style all-in-one such as that Yamaha thingy... and that probably won't even touch the FS2's!! :(

    Anyone got any ideas?? :confused:
     
  15. MartinCo

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    I guess it depends on the size of your room and what you want.

    what you've got now (combined amp & dvd player I think?) is probably going to be comparable to any of the other alternatives you mention, so not really worth the upgrade in terms of cost...

    there was a slimline denon set but I'm not sure if that's still available... they had an optional fs2 clone speaker set, though lower powered... and still a compromise in quality especially if you are going with an expensive TV.

    an amp that will drive the fs2 set wont be much more than the pioneer you originally quoted... probably £250-300 for one of the marantz amps.

    look at other speakers as well...

    AV furniture doesnt have to be expensive... my equipment is all held in a tall-boy cabinet from Ikea. 4 shelves, taking heavy amp & 300 cd changer, dvd player, mindisc and other assorted bits of kit.

    cost £80.
     
  16. zsaddique

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    This sucks! :mad:

    All I want is something to connect the speakers to for surround sound!! Is a huge ugly box the only solutions!?

    I guess I better start looking round for an AV rack as well...
     
  17. Rochdale

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    Ugly? Sir, you blaspheme against our God :D
     
  18. zsaddique

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    hehe! ;)

    You have to admit though, for the home user who's not quite ready for an enormous amplifier box but doesn't want to put up with the limitations of an all-in-one.. there's little for him to choose, is there?! :rolleyes:
     
  19. MartinCo

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    fraid not, zsaddique. time to bit the bullet perhaps!

    if you're interested, the kit I was thinking of was
    the new Denon ADV-700
    http://www.web-quality.ch/WQ/apres_fs.asp?Anbieter=5767

    with the matching fs2 clone set of speakers (made for Denon by Mission) SCAV-F100
    http://www.web-quality.ch/WQ/apres_fs.asp?Anbieter=5822

    they are in the micro/mini section on the denon UK site.

    you get prologic II and proper RGB scart for starters which is not bad for an all-in-one.


    can't see any slimline amps that do 50-60-75W though,
    probably very difficult to do this with current amp technology.

    maybe when the sharp 1-bit technology gets going in the near future, then a small slimline 5x100 W amp will be possible.
     
  20. zsaddique

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    That ADV-700 package costs almost up to £1200!! :eek:

    If I had that kind of money to spend I'd buy some pukka furniture and a "proper" system! :D

    Speaking of pukka.. check this out...

    [​IMG]

    Oooh.. it's slim, packs 100w x 5 channels and hey, it's only £2744!! hehe ;)

    Seriously though, I have two options.. either I can wait a while and get a new AV stand that can accommadate for a full-size amp or I can take the plunge right now and get either one of the top all-in-one solutions

    Then again, I could just get the previously mentioned Pioneer slimline "slim-powered" amp with matching Pioneer speakers (either S-V50/70).. that should run together quite well and look the biz too with a slim silver Toshiba SD-220e!!

    Oh, and Martin, thanks so much for your support here.. I don't know why but you seem to be the only person giving me a decent reply!

    Cheers!
     
  21. zsaddique

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  22. MartinCo

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    didn't realise it was THAT expensive...
    thought the amp was about £700, and the speakers £300-350.

    then again if you compare the cost of:-

    decent marantz or denon amp £300-350
    speaker set £370 (for the fs2s as an example)
    decent dvd player £200-300

    you are looking at about the same... over £1000.

    the Sony looks nice though... and does what you require supposedly. note though, this rating may be with its speakers.. and rigged test ratings for the wattage.. could be lower than quoted...50-60W. have a look on audioreview.com to see if any has tried it.

    the pioneer slimline amp with the matching pioneer dvd player would look even better than your suggested tosh perhaps.
    then the pioneer speaker set?

    I'd stick to the other thread, and get more people's views there, rather than this one which looks mission FS2 specific... see if anyone else knows of a slimline amp that does 60-75W+.

    happy to help if I can.
     
  23. zsaddique

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    Just out of curiousity, will the FS2 AV work well with a budget amp such as the Kenwood KRF V5050D which I can get for £166?

    The amp supports DD/DTS and has 100 watts of power for each channel. But the HCC review recommends finding a suitable speaker package to partner it with that is not too demanding of its power reserves. :rolleyes:

    I appreciate the advice guys!!
     
  24. MartinCo

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    we meet again!
    ;)

    according to its spec, the Mission FS2-av set should work with the Kenwood you mention.

    BUT... as has been discovered, some amps are better at driving particular speakers than others, particularly if the load is odd/ unusual.
    lots of manufacturers still rig the 5x NW ratings, quoting 2 channel... or aren't really viable upto the maximum rating because the sound quality will deteriorate badly.

    you really can't tell until you have tested it...

    most other people are using various model Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Sony amps to drive FS2s.. virtually all of of these are £300+ and have been tested by someone.

    obviously your choice of amp will have a vast impact on the quality of both your DVD/surround and stereo/CD, and is NOT a decision to be taken lightly.

    best not to skimp on this bit, and spend as much as you can afford realistically.

    lets face it... if you're going dvd-->component out to your nice loewe TV (both best "quality" choices) then why compromise other equally important areas?

    a balanced system is always the best approach.
     
  25. zsaddique

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    Hmm.. so was that a yes or a no? :confused:

    This is SOOOO mind-boggling! I think I'll email Mission and ask them their thoughts.
     
  26. MartinCo

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    that was a MAYBE...
    but cautioning you, that saving £100-150 on the amp is not good idea.

    spending say:-
    £225 on a dvd player,
    £360 on speakers,
    £199 on the amp,
    is unbalanced in terms of your budget.

    £299 would get you a low/mid range Denon, Sony, Marantz.. etc.

    BTW, dont expect a decent response from Mission email support...
    they usually take about a week to reply.

    and dont get depressed about it... these things are meant to be confusing!

    some of the people here are on their 3rd/4th/5th amp and Nth DVD player.

    think about a balanced system, otherwise you will just want to upgrade something very very quickly which will cost you more in the long run.
     
  27. zsaddique

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    Ok, this is gonna sound silly, but my mum *hates* the huge Denon and Marantz amps and won't stand one under the telly!! Maybe the Sony STRDE475 would cut it, but's it still a budget amp.
     
  28. MartinCo

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    hmmm... women... grrr. so much trouble caused...
    (see projector thread for my own problem).

    most amps have to be that big to do 5 or 6 x 75-105W... power supplies etc.

    not sure what your solution is for this...

    hiding the amp away.. and controlling it remotely...? £30-40 approx.

    having a cupboard/ unit with a solid door so your mum only sees the amp when you watch a film?.. (my unit is like that... £80 from ikea).

    moving out and getting your own place?:D


    must be something possible... how big is the room? (living?)
     
  29. zsaddique

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    Sorry Martin but it's either the Kenwood KRF V5050D or the Sony STRDE475 but I'm leaning towards the Kenwoods for the looks.

    Now I also had to drop my budget, and the fact that the grey FS2 AV's have been discontinued and EmpireDirect.co.uk is unlikely to get any back in stock for the low price isn't helpful at all! I'll have to get a set from HifiJunkies.co.uk for £439 instead.
     
  30. zsaddique

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    Update!

    Almost got my mum to accept the Denon 1602 (would have been a perfect match).. but then she saw a photo of it!! :eek:

    So I ended up ordering the Kenwood KRF-V5050D silver receiver for £166 from Unbeatable.co.uk.

    I gave Mission a call and was told that the price of the receiver means little and as long as the receiver has the right specifications it shouldn't have a problem driving the FS2's. I also emailed LE Concepts who said, "Certainly the receiver has more than enough power to drive the FS2s and has the correct connections for you to set up the FS2 and be rewarded with good sound fidelity for both Home Cinema and two channel music".

    So I don't think I made THAT bad a choice! Of course, if I did, I'll soon find out! ;)
     

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