Question How to get Internet into garage?

[devs]

Hi guys, I'm trying to get my head around the best way to get internet over to my garage?

What would you do...

So above the garage is a self contained 2 bed annex. I would like wifi to be available here. I also want to install 2 IP cctv camera on the outside of the garage.

I tested a powerline adaptor from the house to the garage but that didn't work unfortunately. Can only assume that its because of the consumer units setup?

In the house theres loads of cat6 network points. I had thought of connecting a wifi access point to one of these that is the closest to the garage. (10meters away)

Then fitting a repeater that has two ethernet ports for the cameras in the garage.

What do you think is this a 'normal' way to do this or am I missing something?

Cheers, Devs

 

[mickevh]

The best way is to install a cable (either copper or fibre) and hang the required connectivity off of it (switch, access point, both or a "crippled" router which can do both in one box if you only need a few ethernet ports.)

If that is not possible and HomePlugs do not work, then I guess you are looking at a Wi-Fi solution.

10 meters isn't that great a distance for Wi-Fi, but if there is substantive intervening structures and/or foliage, it could be challenging. Ideally, one would want to deploy some kind of point-to-point link (if it is really challenging, possibly with directional antenna, though over 10m with line of sight, I would be surprised if bog standard omni-directional antenna did not work.)

Rather than use repeaters (which can clobber throughput) you might consider some of the newer "tri band" devices for the outpost which use separate radio channels for client access and backhaul reducing (even eliminating) the bandwidth clobbering effect of repeaters.

It would probably be worth conducting some surveys to see what the Wi-Fi locale is like. Grab a laptop and install something like "InSSIDer" or "Acrylic Wi-Fi" survey tools, grab a router (anything will do, it doesn't need to be Internet connected) then deploy said router in a few places and wander around with the survey laptop and see how the reception from the router varies. Don't worry about the absolute values, what you are looking for is the trend to see how reception varies with the router deployed in different locations so that you can form a view as to whether a Wi-Fi link is going to be feasible. Even so, it's something of a black art and even armed with some of the best equipment, software and expertise, sometimes Wi_Fi just doesn't work how we think it's going to.

 

[noiseboy72]

If you cannot run a cable over to the garage (catenary wire and suspended flexible Cat6 would be the best value route) then use a 5GHz link. This: Ubiquiti NS-5ACL NanoStation AC Loco airMAX Outdoor 5Ghz 13dBi WiFi Point-To-Point PtP Link Kit (450Mbps AC) will work well. The reason for using 5GHz is that there's more channels available than 2.4GHz, so you won't be using bandwidth you might need for general device connection.

You have the choice of whether you duplicate the settings on your existing router so that devices will connect to either and will hand over seamlessly or have separate SSIDs and passwords. The first option is good practice unless you have an area where the signal strength is weak from both routers and your devices might not connect to the better signal. I cover our house with 1 network, but the man cave has a separate name to prevent devices from connecting to it inadvertently.

 

[devs]

Guys many thanks for all the assistance, its really helpful and appreciated.

I’m going to explore the possibilities of running a cable as I’m yet to have the drive tarmaced and need get get a mini digger in anyhow. There is a clear line of sight between the two buildings. The 5GHz link also seems like a good cost effective option. Thanks for pointing that out I will research further.

 

[mickevh]

If you are going to dig up the ground to bury a cable, I suggest installing it into ducting (basically plastic pipe.) This affords some mechanical protection, plus if you leave a draw string in situ, in future you can pull in additional and/or replacement cables if required.

If installing cable, I would deploy at least 2 runs - cable is cheap compared to the hassle of installing it. In the very highly unlikely event of a cable failure in service, having an alternate in situ will get you back up and running fairly quickly, whereas if you only have a single run, you are off the air until it is replaced. It is also surprising how often one finds a use for "just one more" (telephone for example) later on.

 

[cerb]

One thing to consider...if the garage and house are on different consumer units, they may be on different earth points.

If that is the case you cannot use a simple copper cable between the buildings - different earths means you may have a significant potential voltage difference between the two points...it would have to be fibre.

 

[Markr123]

One thing to consider...if the garage and house are on different consumer units, they may be on different earth points.

If that is the case you cannot use a simple copper cable between the buildings - different earths means you may have a significant potential voltage difference between the two points...it would have to be fibre.

Hi cerb, sorry all for jumping in on this but I’m intrigued. I too share a similar use case with the OP. I have a detached double garage approx 15m from the house. Currently my 4 servers, main switches etc are in my server cab in the house. I have another cabinet in the garage with another switch etc facilitating the CCTV, and another UniFi AP. My garage has a separate consumer unit to the house. Remarkably, a pair of TPlink powerline adaptor work very well between the house and the garage despite traversing 2 consumer units. I am planning on running x4 Ethernet cables between the house and garage using the LAG on the switches to provide better bandwidth and add redundancy. I had heard of something about laying copper between 2 building being a concern. Trouble is, I’m not fully understanding why. I’m reasonably proficient in electronics etc and I kind of get it but being Ethernet isolated from the mains, I’m not quite sure why. Could you help demystify? Thanks.
Ps, I had considered fibre via the available SFP ports but not being that experienced in fibre, nor how to terminate, I was thinking of sticking with what I know. Any advice welcome. Again, sorry to the OP on jumping in.

 

[mickevh]

In the past, I have been told that ethernet over UTP uses "transformer coupling" in the transceivers (and balanced transmission) and thus matters such as earth loops and lift are "not something you need to worry about." Indeed, the sparkies I've used professionally have never been concerned about such things whenever I've asked questions of them. Even so, I'm never unhappy about running fibres for building to building links, not least because they aren't susceptible to electrical interference and afford me the opportunity to run at higher rates (e.g. 10Gig) in the future without recabling.

However, I am by no means an authority on electrical engineering, so I would be interested to benefit from the wisdom of anyone who is.

I suggest the biggest hassle with fibre for the SOHO realm is that they cost more than UTP, installation is a little trickier (you cannot bend them as much as UTP - after all, the are glass in the middle,) terminating them properly is a little more tricky and you need either switches that can accommodate them - either native or with things like SFP ports, or you've got to use in-line media converters which I hate because they are "another box" in the pathway (incidentally needing a power supply) and I've had problems with media converter in the past and am somewhat "biased" against them.

When I'm not paying for it out of my own money and someone else is doing the graft - for me it's fibre every time for building to building links!

 

[noiseboy72]

There's quite a lot of mis-information about earthing of homes in the UK.

Virtually all homes are earthed via a shared earth-neutral (Called a P-E-N connection) back to the electricity company. The earth is then split just before the fuse box and is not connected to the mass of the earth within the house. This is because failure of this local earth could remove the protection from the house and if the P-E-N failed, very high currents could flow through the earth and the protection would not operate. Many people see the earthed water pipes and assume this is a mass of earth connection, but this is not the case and this is actually earthing the pipe work within the house.

If you have an out-building, this will either have the same arrangement as above - split off after the fuse and meter and a separate fuse box in the outbuilding or if a lower current supply is required, a fused spur from the fuse box. This will be earthed back to the house fuse box and will not normally have a connection to the mass of the earth either - for much the same reasons.

In some cases, the electrician may convert the garage to have it's own connection to the mass of the earth = called TT. This can only be done if there's no other earthed items - such as a water supply in the building. In this case, the earth from the main house will not be connected at the outbuilding and you will need to take extra care with different earth potentials and more importantly, not allowing the network cable to become an earth path. This can be a major safety hazard if the local mass of earth connection fails, as the network cable could then become the earth path, causing damage or fire within connected equipment if high currents flowed!

TT connections to outbuildings normally only exist if the building is a long way from the main dwelling, as a large diameter earth is required and the cost of this may be more expensive than the local earthing. In all cases, your electricity supply company will hold details of your household connection type.

 

[cerb]

Noiseboy72 is correct, saves me writing a long post.

If you can be certain that the house and the garage are on the same earth no problem.

If in doubt, get an electrician to check.

I had a site where some copper data cables were pulled between a house and an outbuilding 20 metres away, and were on separate earths...and had a potential difference of over 100V....kept blowing the devices at either end but at least no one got a shock.