How to get 7.1 sound from a Denon 1804?

balders

Novice Member
Hi,

I'm using a Denon 1804 with the standard 5.1 Kef 2005.2 package.

Would I need to to anything special to use the 7.1 output of my Denon 1804 if I was to purchase a couple of extra eggs? Would it be simply a case of plugging them both into the back of the amp, or would I need to buy any extra kit to boost the signal (which I understand is split between the two).

What about 6.1 - is this just a case of plugging in a single speaker?

Thanks,

Balders.
 

jasper_mccrea

Active Member
Just plug the two eggs in in series to the output. The amp shouldn't have any problems driving the two. You might have to push up the 'volume' on that channel to match the rest.

One is easier, just plug in the speaker, like you say.
 
B

bobbypunk

Guest
most cheaper 7.1 amps have the two sets of terminals share an amplifier anyway so sharing them with one set of terminals shouldn't be any different!
 

Reiner

Active Member
Would I need to to anything special to use the 7.1 output of my Denon 1804 if I was to purchase a couple of extra eggs? Would it be simply a case of plugging them both into the back of the amp, or would I need to buy any extra kit to boost the signal (which I understand is split between the two).
You don't have to buy an additional amp since the 1804 has 6 channels. Of course in a "true" 7.1 setup there would be two channels of amplification for the surround back L&R, but you can also wire them to one output.
If the speakers are 4 Ohm wire in series, if they are 8 Ohm wire parallel. If the amp has a seperate output for the 7th speaker use that.

I just had a look at the manual, the Denon AVR-1804 has A and B terminals for the surround back speakers!

What about 6.1 - is this just a case of plugging in a single speaker?
Yes. Usually it's called the "center rear" then.
 

balders

Novice Member
Cheers folks.

Reiner, you're quite right about the two surround back terminals. However, the manual isn't very clear on connecting two surround backs. In the section on speaker impedance it says:

Be careful when using two pairs of front and Surround back speakers (A+B) and (I+II) at the same time, since the use of speakers with an impedance of 12 to 16 ohms.
... which doesn't make any sense to me (the above is taken directly from the manual, bad-grammar included).

I took this to mean that if I want to connect a surround back speaker to each of terminals I and II, then the impedance of each needs to be 12 to 16 ohms.

Or does it mean the combined impedance over the two terminals needs to be 12-16 ohms?

My eggs are 8 ohms, so would it be best to run two surround backs in parallel (from I+II) or in series (from I)?

Thanks,

Balders.
 

Reiner

Active Member
I took this to mean that if I want to connect a surround back speaker to each of terminals I and II, then the impedance of each needs to be 12 to 16 ohms.
It does indeed sound like that (same is said on the back panel).
That means the combined impedance will result in something the amp is capable of handling (e.g. 2x 16 Ohm will result in 8 Ohm total when wired in parallel as this is usually the case with I (A) and II (B) terminals).

Or does it mean the combined impedance over the two terminals needs to be 12-16 ohms?
I don't think so.

My eggs are 8 ohms, so would it be best to run two surround backs in parallel (from I+II) or in series (from I)?
Technically correct would be in series (from I) but, and this is strictly at your own risk, you can use the I+II connections since the surround backs usually aren't 'always on' nor do they usually require lot's of power, as well setting them to SMALL (bass routed to fronts or subwoofer) will reduce the strain to the amp.
 

Reiner

Active Member
I took this to mean that if I want to connect a surround back speaker to each of terminals I and II, then the impedance of each needs to be 12 to 16 ohms.
It does indeed sound like that (same is said on the back panel).
That means the combined impedance will result in something the amp is capable of handling (e.g. 2x 16 Ohm will result in 8 Ohm total when wired in parallel as this is usually the case with I (A) and II (B) terminals).

Or does it mean the combined impedance over the two terminals needs to be 12-16 ohms?
I don't think so, see above.

My eggs are 8 ohms, so would it be best to run two surround backs in parallel (from I+II) or in series (from I)?
Technically correct would be in series (from I) but, and this is strictly at your own risk, you can use the I+II connections since the surround backs usually aren't 'always on' nor do they usually require lot's of power, as well setting them to SMALL (bass routed to fronts or subwoofer) will reduce the strain to the amp.
 

balders

Novice Member
Thanks, Reiner. I think I'm beginning to understand this impedance business now!

Dredging up stuff from my old physics lessons, if I've got two 8 ohm speakers, I can either:
- connect in parallel (I+II) with an effective 4 ohm impedance
- connect in series (I only) with an effective 16 ohm impedance

Now, the 1804 states to use a 6-16 ohm speaker when using output I, and two 12-16 ohm speakers when using I+II (ie in parallel)

So, connecting in parallel will be well outside the specified tolerances, but connecting the two in series to output (I) will just be inside the tolerance (at 16 ohms).

I assume I'd need to up the power to the surround back in either case in order to bring it in line with the other channels.

What are the pros and cons of parallel/ series?

(Series is actually favourite at the moment, mainly because it remains in the amps tolerances, and it means less cabling!)

Thanks,

Balders.
 

Reiner

Active Member
Dredging up stuff from my old physics lessons, if I've got two 8 ohm speakers, I can either:
- connect in parallel (I+II) with an effective 4 ohm impedance
- connect in series (I only) with an effective 16 ohm impedance

Now, the 1804 states to use a 6-16 ohm speaker when using output I, and two 12-16 ohm speakers when using I+II (ie in parallel)

So, connecting in parallel will be well outside the specified tolerances, but connecting the two in series to output (I) will just be inside the tolerance (at 16 ohms).
That is all correct.

I assume I'd need to up the power to the surround back in either case in order to bring it in line with the other channels.
Yes, just level the channel in relation to the others, it does not matter what speakers (4 or 8 Ohm) or how they are wired, the resulting SPL will define the setting required.

What are the pros and cons of parallel/ series?
If the speakers are not exactly identical then it could result in a different volume level while wired in series.
The speaker with the lower impedance would get less voltage and hence less power. Wired in parallel this is avoided.

(Series is actually favourite at the moment, mainly because it remains in the amps tolerances, and it means less cabling!)
Personally I think that using the i and ii terminals would be easier, but if you prefer series and since it's a better match for the technical specifications go for it! :)
 
T

Toekiller

Guest
Balders.

You know these forums cost you money.

Run away! ;)
 

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