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How they destroyed star wars chat

Discussion in 'Star Wars Movies Forum' started by nero0410, May 28, 2004.

  1. nero0410

    nero0410
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    I just had to start this debate, it has been niggleing away at me from episode 2 or even one. :nono:

    :lesson: So come on!! Lets hear some ideas about how they destroyed star wars!!! :zonked:

    I know in some cases some people wouldnt have seen the original 3 (4,5,6) so the first 2 could be good films, as long as they re-made the original trilogy after this one.

    So come and have a moan and groan about how bad they made it, and what they should have done or should do to make it better. Starting off from episode 3 obviously.

    tris
     
  2. Family Guy

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    Believe me mate...you ain't startin' this thread. Just do a search under "star wars" but look in the movies & TV section...
     
  3. nero0410

    nero0410
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    Obviously meaning the current and on going trilogy, not episode 4, 5 and 6 as obviously they were master pieces IMHO.

    tris
     
  4. beecee

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    well it all started to go wrong when George decided to direct them himself.....and write the screenplay, oh and let ILM go nuts with CGI. :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide:

    to improve it!

    remove Jar Jar and all the gungans, any reference to mediclorians (spelling!!!) calm down on the CGI and use men in suits, i mean EVERY clone trooper was CG....for the close up scenes they could have had at least them with real actors.

    he has left far too much to deal with in the third prequel, the second should have ended with Aniken being defeated by Ben and falling into the lava pit! (IMO)

    on the plus side the space battles and light saber battles were very good.
     
  5. Racquel Darrian

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    I loved part 1 & 2 and so did many other people (I know lots of satisfied viewers).
    Can't wait for part 3!
     
  6. runningback

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    Don't think it went wrong at all.
    Filmmaking is a lot different then it was in the 70ies.
    Whilst i regard the first trilogy as superior to EPI and II and don't think
    they are bad in fact i liked them both very much even though the first one got a little bit on my t**** because of Jar Jar and generally too much kiddy stuff.

    But i think probably if i were younger and would have seen EP I and II
    without knowing and romanticising the first trilogy to a certain degree
    i would regard them as equal.

    Regarding the CGI, yes it does look artificial in parts and it does look
    a little too clean and perfect to be real, but i think you could also see
    the models used in the first three, which didn't look too impressive in some
    scenes either.
     
  7. nero0410

    nero0410
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    runningback--------I totally agree with you on that. If I havent seen the first 3 films before, obviously none the wiser. If one had not seen the original trilogy then episode 1 and 2 were great films, great special effects etc... Heck I even loved Jar Jar (truthfully) I thought he was great. Yes it may have been a bit kiddiefied but that just brings a greater audiance. Cgi and puppertry are both equal IMHO, as they are both clearly seen in any movie.

    I think the extra cgi placed into the original trilogy spoiled it a bit, especially when you saw han walk through jabba twice, lol.

    But to be honest
    because they have made episodes 1,2 and 3 with todays technology, hey cant relate to the original films very well because of that reason unless they re-make the original trilogy completely with todays technology too. Which for me would destroy it.

    I mean with cgi generated ships they look absolutly amazing and far more advanced than the ships in the original trilogy. But then if I think about it, the ships and worlds of the original trilogy are like an apocalyptic wasteland, sort of, like mad max but clapped out ships.

    I dont know it could go on forever.

    I too cant wait for episode 3 but I hope they make about a 3-3and half hour film, because they have to fit so much in. eg:
    anikin finish training
    anikin have luke and lea
    anikin turn to darkside then turning into darth vader after some freak accident which will probally be over someone killing his other half queen amidalla
    yoda going to other planet
    rest of jedi being wiped out
    a bit of bobba fett
    the death star progress
    I suppose the lists and ideas can go on and on, but I do hope they fit everything in. And not in the last 5 mins of the film

    tris
     
  8. Stuart Wright

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    Really interesting one, this, because when the original Star Wars came out in '77 and it blew my mind both times at the cinema, I though it was utterly brilliant. That love and familiarity with the movie has affected me and so many others in such a huge way that though the movie probably doesn't deserve it on many levels, it still gets voted as very many people's favourite movie of all time.
    I thought PM and AOTC were pretty rubbish. Spectacular eye candy but not a fraction of the appeal of 4,5 and 6. How much of this difference of opinion is down to the 25+ years difference in our expectations & perceptions? Quite a lot, I think.

    What saddens me, now, is that my eagerness to buy the original trilogy on DVD has withered away. Knowing also that they'll probably be tweaked even further away from the original trilogy. Greedo firing first was a rediculous mistake IMO.
    But I'm simply not all that bothered about owning them on DVD, now.
    Oh there'll be a fuss made when they are out and I'll get them as part of my monthly batch of DVDs. But I'll not be frothing at the mouth to own them like I would have been before PM was released.

    Much in the way that the spectacular disappointments of Reloaded and Revolutions have tainted my enjoyment of the spectacularly brilliant Matrix.
     
  9. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    If I may have a wild stab in the dark...
    Anekin and Amidala will already have had the kids. Twins, remember. And they'll be at least 2 or 3 so Lea can remember her mum being sad.
    Anekin will also have finished his training.
    So we have the souring of Anekin's personality. Amidala taking comfort in Obiwan. Fight between Obiwan and Anekin. Anekin lava pit.
    Palpetine uses this to finally turn Anekin. And then uses the clone army to take over... everything. Big battle.
    Boba fet makes an appearance as a young man.
    Jedi wiped out and we have a dark ending like episode 5 leading nicely into Star Wars A New Hope.
    They don't even need to cover the building of the Death Star.
    Don't forget there'll need to be a good 10 minutes of C3PO getting smashed up and doing his subsequent comedy routine while/until someone puts him back together (as per episodes 2,4 & 5).
     
  10. Azrikam

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    Keep in mind how much character development should be in the third film according to the story arc. Now, off the top of your head, what's GL's biggest weakness as a writer? If you said character development, give yourself a prize.

    Being whiny and being evil and two different things. Try and imagine Darth Vader whining about anything. Exactly. George has miles to go with the character, but he's lost on a boat without a map, compass, or sails. (oh, and the boat is in the middle of a desert or something)

    I never want to see this film. Ever.
     
  11. Grimley

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    Never mind about the birth of Darth Vader in EpIII, I just want to see Jar Jar binks get brutally murdered... :devil: :lease:
     
  12. AndyGo

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    Character development hits it spot on.

    The original trilogy have characters that you believe in & empathise with, whereas you could replace Hayden Christianson with a relatively tall piece of timber & not notice much difference in the acting stakes.

    GL has really lost his way a bit, PM was quite enjoyable as an opening "meet the gang" piece to set the stage for the darker & more character driven 2 & 3, unfortunately that didn't happen. What he needs to do is use his untold wealth to go back in time & hire Irvin Kershner to direct all 3 of the prequels properly !!

    I mean, Jake Lloyd in PM actually says "yippee" ????!!!! People just do not say that & it sounds so clunky as to be abysmally dire !

    Consider this, in AOTC the ludicrous 'Anakin falling off a rubbish CGI beachball in the meadow of Naboo whilst cringingly feigning trying to get it on with Amidala' scene seems to linger forever & accomplish nothing, whilst their wedding, a huge pivotal point where Anakin foregoes the dictate of the Jedi order & engages in deception on his ever spiralling journey to the darkside is tacked on as a few seconds at the end of the film almost as though GL forgot about it !

    And of course, way too much reliance on CGI - wasn't it GL whose ethos was supposedly that special effects should never overshadow a good story & script ?? Maybe he should listen to himself.

    And as for the tinkering to the original trilogy on DVD, makes me want to drop a rather large binary load lifter on George Lucas' head !!!!


    May the profits (sorry- force) be with you !!!


    Andy
     
  13. Brogan

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    Wow! Some of you guys really have a handle on the plot. timeline and relationships between the characters.
    I gave up trying to work it all out and just watch the movie now. :rolleyes:

    The same thing has happened to Star Wars that happened to the Terminator series (and probably numerous other movies).
    It was re-written to accomodate younger viewers to enable maximum take at the box office.
    The original Terminator was 18 which immediately restricted the viewing public and hence profit.
    T2 comes out and surprise, surprise, it's been toned down to give it a 15 (guessing here) which opens up millions more revenue.

    The new Star Wars trilogy has suffered the same way and was written for and aimed at a much younger audience, as evidenced by that annoying blonde kid and the teeth-grindingly annoying Jar Jar Binks :mad: :mad: :mad:
     
  14. alancolledge

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    How they destroyed Starwars?

    By trying to please everyone at the same time.......just didn't work too well.

    Agreed with the points on grabbing the larger audience with material aimed at the younger generation but ewoks came first!

    Episodes 1 & 2 did show that there must have been a think tank asking what our generation would like in the film....

    How many of you wanted to know what a light sabre would do as a cutting tool before PM came out. I know I did and low and behold it's used as a device to open a big metal door in the first 10 minutes.

    I know I wanted more light sabre fights and we get that by the bucketfull.

    Yoda supposed to be the greatest Jedi ever and we would have liked to see what he is cabable of. What we get however is what looks like a green balloon being let go after its blown up!

    I consider that the wants and needs of old and new audiences have been addressed with these newer movies as opposed to the development of good old fashioned plot and storyline.

    I will still watch the 3rd one with excitment and anticipation as I have done with the others.........and probably aire my dissapointment on here shortly after!

    Such is life :rolleyes:
     
  15. Paul O

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    Just my opinion but I thought that Star Wars 1 and 2, along with the last two Matrix films (and countless others) look like the actors were placed in a 6 foot square blue-screen room to do there part, and everything else was done with computers.

    No matter how good they look, they still look fake! Maybe they should drastically lower the budget to make them use more models and less PCs...
     
  16. FoxyMulder

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    Count me as a fan of Episodes 1 and 2 and looking forward to Part 3, for me the weakest of the series so far has been Return Of The Jedi, the big problem for me with that film was all the cute little Ewoks acting all tough and killing stormtroopers
    ( original script called for Wookies )

    My own personal feeling is i also considered it weak because the cast and in particular Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill and Billy Dee Williams and Carrie Fisher were way too relaxed looking in their parts and didnt look like they were about to fight the war of their lives with just the whole galaxy at stake ( contrast their edgy excellent performances in Empire Strikes Back to Return and you will see what i mean ) The Empire Strikes Back is the best of the trilogy with Attack Of The Clones second as far as i'm concerned, all are enjoyable if you don't take them too seriously ( the older people get sometimes the more serious they become and the childhood memories cloud their judgement and give a hazy glow to the original trilogy )

    Lastly i hope the changes being made to the original trilogy include reversing the Greedo shoots first scene and getting rid of all those silly sound effects in Empire
    ( Lukes girly scream as he lets go of that railing in Cloud City and falls down the shaft ) make those 2 changes and i would be very very happy and it would appease many people who complained about the changes to the original's.
     
  17. NicolasB

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    I hope episode 3 at least clears up the whole Sifo Dyas business. They spend ages on that in episode 2, and then it's just left hanging.

    I'm also waiting for the official explanation of why Qui-Gon Jin's body didn't dissappear when he died. (There is supposedly a terribly good reason for this).
     
  18. lentini

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    The other Jedi (Ben, Yoda, Anakin) died 'gracefully' whereas Qui-Gon died in battle.

    My guess anyway...
     
  19. nero0410

    nero0410
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    It's all topsy turvy to me. Its as if they have decided to scrap amazing story line which Is not confusing (4,5,6) Then just throw 1,2,possibly 3 together with amazing special effects but more of a confusing story line

    I think they should re-make 4,5and 6 to co-incide with 1,2, and 3 with todays technology.

    Then at least for those not seen the original trilogy or watching 1,2 and 3 before they watch 4,5 and 6 it wont be a let down.

    The list of ideas just go's on

    tris
     
  20. G a f f e r

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    As far as i can tell, there are a few more changes needed to fit into episode 3. C3PO has to have his memory erased. So does R2D2. Anikin has kids but only knows about Luke........But then doesn't know about him when he's older (star wars) only to remember him in empire sb. Only solution? he thinks Luke died ?at birth (ie during ep3 ) so he gets angry and fights with ob1.
    Luke gets smuggled back to live with boring old fart uncle lars. Lea is "donated" to senator bail organa and adopted, but after spending a little longer with amidala (so she remembers her being sad----probably due to having had to give up luke).
    etc etc.
    It sounds more and more like a very poor episode of family affairs :laugh:
    There is NO WAY GL can fit this all into one episode unles he does a 4 hour "LOTR special"....

    .....in fact, come to think of it, he should've got Peter Jackson to direct all three....
     
  21. Alan1975

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    Peter Jackson for President!
     
  22. beecee

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    Ben died in battle! but he was prepared to die. Qui-Gon wasnt prepared for his death.
     
  23. lentini

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    That's what I meant :D
     
  24. APPRIA40WR

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    George Lucas is a thief!
     
  25. stealther

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    I think I would have been a little more pleased with 1 & 2 if GL had at least kept the ceral box style spacecraft instead of the streamlined wind tunnel designed space craft we see now. You might think it sad but what will really disapoint me the most is if I dont get to see an X wing and the milenium falcon in epissode 3. Oh and anakin putting on vaders mask. Perhaps its my age but these little things are more important to me then seeing all the issues answered. Jar Jar has to die a most painfull death as well
     
  26. Gary Lightfoot

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    You see 2 or 3 Millenium Falcons parked up in Ep2 when the ship with either Obi Wan lands to chat with the bar guy, or when Anakin and Amadala land - I can't remember exactly, but the Falcon ships are on the far l/h side of the screen.

    I know what you mean though - the small touches can more important than the rest of the movie.

    Gary.
     
  27. Azrikam

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    I know what you mean. We go back in history, and all the technology is much cooler and more advanced. Huh? Then, George will have to go back to the OT and streamline the ships, and rebuilt most of the dogfights, because he's a madman.
     
  28. Stinja

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    Yep it all went downhill when the Wookies got booted for Ewoks - more merchandise marketing potential for the kiddies you know... though rumours are GL is going to CGI in a LOT more Ewoks to make it more plausible that they manage to beat the Emperors finest in battle?! Hopefully this means we also get to see more dead Ewoks, i laugh and laugh when that one dies, and his mate crawls over to push his body about and cant seem to work out hes dead. But maybe i'm just a sicko.

    Anyway Empire Strikes back is the highlight for me, Ep4 (the original Star Wars) next, and Ep2 after that. The best thing about Ep2 is we discover that New Zealanders are the finest genetic material available, and all the clone warriors are kiwis in disguise. Strewth! as if the Fett family wasnt cool enough already; best non-Jedi around!

    I too am undecided about the DVD trilogy, many a time my finger has hovered over the "buy me" button at Amazon, but i just cant do it till i read some reviews about what has and hasnt happened to them. The one big hope is that some netgeek with too much time will re-edit them all and release them on the net like the Ep1 Jango-free version. Ahh well...
     
  29. Squiffy

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    I might be going out on a limb here, but has it really been destroyed?

    I know, I know - Eps 1 and 2 are disappointments. But are they really that bad compared to 4, 5 and 6?

    I love 4, 5 and 6, but that is partly because I've romaticised them in my own mind. Being purely objective, those films while grand in scope suffer from being seriously cliched, some bad acting, and dare I say some poor plot twists?

    The reason they stand out so much is because they were so ahead of their time - the special effects, the continuity & development between films, the gritty future setting...

    IMHO it's a similar thing with the Lord of the Rings books. I've read and enjoyed them (plus The Hobbit and the cringeingly unreadable Silmarillion), but IMHO there are far superior books that don't get the same respect merely because they've arrived at a time of greater expectations.

    So getting back to Star Wars, have 1 & 2 really been a letdown compared to the other three, or has the reputation of 4-6 been elevated thru the rose tinted glasses of time?

    IMHO all 1 & 2 are guilty of is failing to present as great an advancement of the genre as 4 originally did.
     
  30. dsw182

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    You also see loads of dead Jedi following the Geonosis arena battle.

    It could also be that Ben, Yoda & Anakin don't actually die, but become one with the force.

    As for the spaceship/technology issue - If you think about a Spitfire, that is a more elegant design of aircraft to say a Tornado, even though the Spitfire is several decades older. This can be transferred to the Starwars ships.
     

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