How much will the DUP get to go along today?

pinnocchio

Well-known Member
As title......

How much will the DUP extract to go along with this rumoured deal structure today?

I reckon it'll be £1bn per year (hidden structured as combined UK and EU support subsidies) as Arlene won't fall for the length of parliament manoeuvre again.
 
D

Deleted member 13294

Guest
The DUP will get nothing.

I expect Northern Ireland might get some additional spending though.
 

pinnocchio

Well-known Member
The DUP will get nothing.

I expect Northern Ireland might get some additional spending though.
If you really believe that good on you.

However, as it's the DUP who are negotiating the amount and the eventual disbursement lacks any real transparency then there's just far far too much opportunity for quid pro quo deals.

If you don't think dark money deals, that we see happening in the US and saw happening during the Brexit campaign, can't happen in Northern Ireland then that's pretty surprising.

Dirty politics happens everywhere.
 
D

Deleted member 13294

Guest
The disbursement is overseen by Westminster, pending the restoration of the Stormont assembly.

It will be fully reported. It will also be subject to review by the National Audit Office.

 

krish

Distinguished Member
The double standards over the DUP's stance on NI being in step with the UK on Brexit but out of step on abortion and marriage, is fudgeing shameful
- so what are the chances of a political bribe to hand back abortion and marriage laws to the assembly even if it doesn't reconvene by Monday? (or a cynical brief reconvening, if that's even possible, recognised)
 

pinnocchio

Well-known Member
The disbursement is overseen by Westminster, pending the restoration of the Stormont assembly.

It will be fully reported. It will also be subject to review by the National Audit Office.

Your faith in the systems that are supposed to work is really quite quaint.

Given the oversight mechanisms you seem to trust in, could you perhaps explain how this happened and wasn't 'picked up' till it hit the news.

Boris Johnson, his buddy and a boatload of public money
 

pinnocchio

Well-known Member
What are you saying hasn't been picked up?

No wrongdoing has been proven that I can see.
“Poor are those who have eyes but cannot see... ☥”

Luis Marques
 

pinnocchio

Well-known Member
Squiffy

I really don't know if you do this deliberately or subconsciously, but it makes having any debate with you pointless as instead of addressing the issues you continually look to deflect, divert and drive the debate into minutiae that bears no resemblance to the material issues.

If you want to look at what the wrongdoing was, then google is your friend, do the work yourself and then try to formulate an objective viewpoint that at least is open to the possibility what was done was likely criminal or at the very least a conflict of the rules.

Notwithstanding that, the material point in the first couple of postings was to the DUP using this as an opportunity to 'extort' more money from UK taxpayers to their benefit.

If you really believe that the NAO have the wherewithal to micro manage every single disbursement made rather then at best a perfunctory, top level, view of what's actually happened, then you don't understand that politics isn't about finding the truth, it's about avoiding the blame when the truth comes out.

If you don't think the DUP have form for misappropriation on a massive scale read this

Renewable Heat Incentive scandal - Wikipedia

I won't bother replying to any more of your posts in this thread as I honestly believe it would just be a waste of my time.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Looks like the deal may have been struck without them on board.
 

pinnocchio

Well-known Member
Looks like the deal may have been struck without them on board.
I don't think this will clear parliament, I think this is another Cummins leak trying to bounce the DUP into supporting the deal which I can't see them doing unless they at least get a shedload of cash and even then may not.

There's also a legal action starting in Scotland today regarding you cannot have different tax regimes in the UK according to existing legislation, so there's another potential hurdle to overcome.

Link so you can read yourself

Brexit LIVE: Remainers launch legal action against new deal... before it's even signed

It's an interesting point in law and could require emergency legislation to change the existing law before voting on the new law, or of course, could be added as an amendment to the new bill.

Should be an interesting 48 hours.

The old joke applies, the only ship that leaks from the top is the ship of state.
 
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pinnocchio

Well-known Member
I understand, although I wasn't aware of that tweet as I don't do social media.

I would wonder if that tweet was because BoJo had told the EU he had the votes to get it through, when in fact the DUP have come out again this morning, even after BoJo said there's a deal, that they're not onboard.

So unless BoJo has somehow corralled enough votes to get it through and I honestly don't think the numbers are there, or he 'fibbed' to the EU to try and generate a 'head of steam' to bounce the DUP into this (more likely IMHO).

However you look at this it's very hard not to say that BoJo will do or say almost anything at this stage to avoid having to sign the extension letter, unfortunately, as you may well have surmised, I have no regard for the mans honesty at all and the planted stories in the press over the last few weeks have been politics at it's very worst IMHO.
 

pinnocchio

Well-known Member

InvisibleDuncan

Well-known Member
I would wonder if that tweet was because BoJo had told the EU he had the votes to get it through, when in fact the DUP have come out again this morning, even after BoJo said there's a deal, that they're not onboard.

So unless BoJo has somehow corralled enough votes to get it through and I honestly don't think the numbers are there, or he 'fibbed' to the EU to try and generate a 'head of steam' to bounce the DUP into this (more likely IMHO).
The agreement with the EU has nothing to do with numbers in Parliament, in the same way that Theresa May's WA didn't. Our government has negotiated it with the EU and both sides have agreed to its terms - hence the tweet from the EU.

Whether it passes through our Parliament and/or the European Commission successfully is another thing entirely.
 
D

Deleted member 13294

Guest
I really don't know if you do this deliberately or subconsciously, but it makes having any debate with you pointless as instead of addressing the issues you continually look to deflect, divert and drive the debate into minutiae that bears no resemblance to the material issues.
What you think of as minutiae, are just facts. As we will see.

If you want to look at what the wrongdoing was, then google is your friend, do the work yourself and then try to formulate an objective viewpoint that at least is open to the possibility what was done was likely criminal or at the very least a conflict of the rules.
Of course there is a possibility.

But let's take this back.

I pointed out that it isn't the DUP getting this money, but Northern Ireland.

You asked how the money was disbursed, and I pointed out that Westminster currently controls spending in NI, and that spending was subject to checks by the NAO.

And then you pointed to this story as evidence they can't be relied on.

Really? That's your case? That they didn't pick up on a situation that is still unsubstantiated that any wrongdoing took place?

Oh well if that's true, then the NAO are guilty as charged. There will be literally hundreds of things that have not been proven to have happened that they haven't reported on. Clearly they must be incompetent to oversee public spending, what with their reliance on facts and evidence.

Notwithstanding that, the material point in the first couple of postings was to the DUP using this as an opportunity to 'extort' more money from UK taxpayers to their benefit.
The material point is that it is Northern Ireland that benefit, and the constituents they represent.

If you really believe that the NAO have the wherewithal to micro manage every single disbursement made rather then at best a perfunctory, top level, view of what's actually happened, then you don't understand that politics isn't about finding the truth, it's about avoiding the blame when the truth comes out.
Ironic to talk about truth when your example is something unproven.

If you don't think the DUP have form for misappropriation on a massive scale read this

Renewable Heat Incentive scandal - Wikipedia
At last something semi relevant. Though again, nothing proven yet as the investigation is yet to conclude.

Luckily, we have a model to assess the possible misuse of future funds. The previous "bung". How was that misused by the DUP? Let's not even insist on proven facts. How much is even remotely linked to any potential scandals.

That would be a big fat zero.

But if anything is proven, I'd expect the full weight of the law to be used against any corruption. But as yet you have nothing.
 

IronGiant

Moderator
Seems a bit odd for someone to post a link as a "proof" and then criticise someone for discussing it because it's "minutiae". Perhaps you could both drop it and move on?
 

Derek S-H

Distinguished Member
I'm glad you started this Thread because that was my exact initial thought once Bozo started crowing about his "success".

The government are being held to ransom by the DUP as they are desperate to stay in power, so I expect the size of the bribe to be pretty substantial. I suppose the DUP could name their price and conditions, they've got nothing to lose.
 

krish

Distinguished Member
those 10 creationist bigots have been holding the whole country they claim to be a part of to ransom ever since May got into bed with them
 

richp007

Distinguished Member
those 10 creationist bigots have been holding the whole country they claim to be a part of to ransom ever since May got into bed with them
Their big hurrah might just be putting the boot up Johnson's ass tomorrow. If he loses by within 10 votes.

Seems there's not enough money on the magic money tree anymore.
 

Dony

Distinguished Member
those 10 creationist bigots have been holding the whole country they claim to be a part of to ransom ever since May got into bed with them
The No party have been holding the country to ransom for much longer than that, but I take your point. The only difference is they are now holding your country to ransom.
 

psikey

Distinguished Member
DUP won't come on board. They want a direct veto on Northern Ireland, even if they only ended up having 1 MP after a GE. They want to control NI rather than let the majority of people who live their make the choices.
 

Bl4ckGryph0n

Distinguished Member
never seen a smugger bunch of ****s than the 10 of them
They are smug indeed. Though I think the SNP and Corbynites are pretty much on par when it comes to smugness and being ****s.

Heck, I'm sure some here would think the same of me, same as all 10 combined :)

However, I doubt that they, SNP, Corbynites nor myself (no doubts there obviously) or many others :) care what others think of them. People will have opinions, some valid, some not so valid. It would be boring if we are all the same.
 

kav

Distinguished Member
I'm hoping that as a result of the whole Brexit ordeal, the DUP have done themselves enough damage to get voted out of power in NI. Might be a turning point to allowing a more progressive politics to flourish there.
 

Dony

Distinguished Member
Love to see this face when he loses his seat ...

View attachment 1209033
Unfortunately there are still plenty of safe seats for the DUP, and they will always get the extreme unionist vote.
The more moderate UUP are in a mess, as are the SDLP so that only leaves Alliance and SF.
 

tapzilla2k

Distinguished Member
The double standards over the DUP's stance on NI being in step with the UK on Brexit but out of step on abortion and marriage, is fudgeing shameful
- so what are the chances of a political bribe to hand back abortion and marriage laws to the assembly even if it doesn't reconvene by Monday? (or a cynical brief reconvening, if that's even possible, recognised)
That'll only work if SF agree to reconvene things, I doubt they will (unless the DUP relents on the Irish Language stuff). You only have to look at Arlene Foster's handling of the cash for ash scandal to see that handing any money over to NI is a bad idea while the assembly remains collapsed.
 

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