How much subwoofer output capability do you need in your system?

pressure

Well-known Member
This thread is absolute gold and @Mr Wolf is a legend for sharing this data and helping so many people.

One thing I love about this data is that it’s not meant to be a list of the “ best subs“ but just a starting point for making choices. After you’ve established technical limits, it’s all about personal taste and additional data points. I’ve learnt a lot from this thread. In particular, I’ve figured out that for my smallish room and low listening level, and preference for higher sub frequencies above 24hz, almost any of these subs will work technically.

It’s one of the best threads on the site.
 

FunkFlex

Novice Member
I’m a long time lurker that registered today to post that this is an awesome tool. I wish I saw this before I purchased subs.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
I think it tells you in the notes on chart on page 1 of the thread
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Sorry it does not include any SVS Cylinder subs but 2 time aligned subs generally would add 4db.
 

kbfern

Distinguished Member
Sorry,I need my glasses on tonight as PC2000 is on there after all. But as I said add 4db for a pair of time aligned PC2000 to get to how they stack up against a single PB3000😁
 

danny55

Member
May i ask a question, why the speaker size and amplifier output power of SVS SB3000 are bigger than monoprice THX 12" , why is the actual output of monoprice 12" better than SB3000?
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
May i ask a question, why the speaker size and amplifier output power of SVS SB3000 are bigger than monoprice THX 12" , why is the actual output of monoprice 12" better than SB3000?

Ported vrsusy sealed. Ported will have several dB advantage.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Thanks, Just for this reason?

No as driver could have different efficiency.

Best sound be compare sb3000 versus pb3000, same driver, same amplifier, different enclosure.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member

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FunkFlex

Novice Member
It’s about eliminating variables. Comparing subs within the same series within the same company like the PB/SB3000 makes senses.

Comparing subs across companies, even if the same size driver isn’t a direct comparison as the amp, DSP, driver characteristics, and construction of sub will vary.
 

scartlead

Well-known Member
Hey @Mr Wolf , any possibility of adding a BK mono + to proceedings please?? Looking to see where my pair rank in the big scheme of things and what I should be looking at regarding an upgrade path.

Thanks
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Hey @Mr Wolf , any possibility of adding a BK mono + to proceedings please?? Looking to see where my pair rank in the big scheme of things and what I should be looking at regarding an upgrade path.

Thanks

Unfortunately there are no independent testing of bk subs :(
 

scartlead

Well-known Member
Thanks for that, was just a thought anyway 👍
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hey @Mr Wolf , any possibility of adding a BK mono + to proceedings please?? Looking to see where my pair rank in the big scheme of things and what I should be looking at regarding an upgrade path.

Thanks

If you go with the "20hz" only in the list then M+ would be roughly in the 28-30. place. I have measurements for the 300w Mono and XLS200. The M+ has quite similar driver to cheaper Mono and 200w more power which won`t make dramatic difference. I have also seen the driver is available in 400w/500w versions and BK is selling the former so it can`t take the full power then. I think the Plus model was made cause they had some reliability issues early 2000. Monolith can put out high output down low due to massive ported cabinet, but it will struggle to new ones going higher up. And also people have commented about the bass/sound quality jumps with the modern subs over Mono which is no suprise knowing how old it is. Personally i would be looking something like SVS PB3000 or Monolith 13 THX / 15 THX for upgrade as minium. Sure 2x Monoprice Monolith 12 THX for ~1300£ have better performance and very likely sound better, but looking for long term i would want bigger jump. Oh and i`m assuming you have decent sized room there. :) There is two good PSA 15" sealed subs in classifieds if you looking different route.

cea_2010_results_round4.jpg
 

scartlead

Well-known Member
Thankyou @Gasp3621 , very informative.

Room size is roughly 13*14 ft so not alot , though cinema is its only purpose and even when watching something like Godzilla Vrs kong I was wanting more. They do hit hard, especially as a pair so I'm gaining up to 6db , but would like a littler extra headroom + more sub 20hz bass too for that tactile feeling. I have looked at the monoprice 13's. Now alittle overkill by having two, but I do like symmetry :) Famous last words, but the model I change to, will be my last, so want to get it right.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Thankyou @Gasp3621 , very informative.

Room size is roughly 13*14 ft so not alot , though cinema is its only purpose and even when watching something like Godzilla Vrs kong I was wanting more. They do hit hard, especially as a pair so I'm gaining up to 6db , but would like a littler extra headroom + more sub 20hz bass too for that tactile feeling. I have looked at the monoprice 13's. Now alittle overkill by having two, but I do like symmetry :) Famous last words, but the model I change to, will be my last, so want to get it right.

Monoprice 13" on eBay good vfm, if you're comparing the monoprice subs. Although the v1 12" are excellent value at £666 each
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thankyou @Gasp3621 , very informative.

Room size is roughly 13*14 ft so not alot , though cinema is its only purpose and even when watching something like Godzilla Vrs kong I was wanting more. They do hit hard, especially as a pair so I'm gaining up to 6db , but would like a littler extra headroom + more sub 20hz bass too for that tactile feeling. I have looked at the monoprice 13's. Now alittle overkill by having two, but I do like symmetry :) Famous last words, but the model I change to, will be my last, so want to get it right.

We have member with dual driver ported 18" in smaller room than yours, dual PB16s in 5x4m room etc. Then if you look the US guys they have something even crazier in small dedicated rooms with multiple ported subs. People have different tastes and requirements when it comes to bass. Some people are fine with having great experience as others will want truly frightning room/organ shooking bass. If you got the space (depth) then why not as i sense you are bit of basshead?! :)
You are in full control how loud they play and hopefully you have some effective sub eq with av-receiver. I´m not sure have you measured the response with REW+Umik1, if not then at least play little bit with the room simulation as the symmetrical way both subs close each other in front wall (?) may not give you smoothest response depending of MLP and room dimensions. You have ton of headroom even if you would place the 2nd sub further apart on another wall.
 

scartlead

Well-known Member
Yeah measured with REW , finding I have a massive peak from memory around 45 Hz. Used the mini dsp to tame that, and now have a reasonably flat ish response to 20hz where the monos roll off v quickly, though thats to be expected.

I like bass of course :) Currently have both subs in from of the mlp about 4 ft apart and 3 feet from the side walls.

Obviously without demos its difficult to be sure of whats better, so I do rely on what I read here.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Oh, i didn`t notice the MiniDSP on your list. All good then!

The price is same on ebay as in main site and AVF advertiser, 1600£. Closest competitor SVS PB-4000 costs 2600£ and Arendal 1723 2V - 2400£ so you don`t really get anything similar for such low price. Mono 13 THX actually matches SVS PB16U @ 3500£ (extended mode) at 20-25hz and from 50hz upwards aswell even with a bit of edge there higher up. Monolith also has better extension than any of the SVS models as we have seen few youtube guys showing comparisons. The output/distortion levels are very impressive in working range and add one of the best tested group delay for ported sub it´s no suprise why there is strong hype around this model. :) It is one deep bulky box though.




Yeah measured with REW , finding I have a massive peak from memory around 45 Hz. Used the mini dsp to tame that, and now have a reasonably flat ish response to 20hz where the monos roll off v quickly, though thats to be expected.

I like bass of course :) Currently have both subs in from of the mlp about 4 ft apart and 3 feet from the side walls.

Obviously without demos its difficult to be sure of whats better, so I do rely on what I read here.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Its way cheaper on eBay £1333 for the 13"
 

scartlead

Well-known Member
@Gasp3621 What you're saying is nothing can really touch the mono 13's for the money or for that matter anything under 2k for sheer output. Like i said when I change Im not planing to change again.
 

scartlead

Well-known Member
Its way cheaper on eBay £1333 for the 13"

When I load it into the basket, it reverts back to RRP, which is strange. I can wait for the next deals mind.
 

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