How much subwoofer output capability do you need in your system?

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
could i get some numbers for 4-5x monolith 12''s vs 2x Monolith 13s''?

Here you go.

1647531763382.png


This assumes a 4dB SPL summation factor per doubling of subs so five subs adds 9.3db over a single in the above calcs. In practice this summation factor will vary by frequency but should be in the 4dB-6dB range if they are time-aligned but not co-located (i.e. stacked).

So the dual Mono 13" option should have more extension and probably a more explosive delivery quality from having greater dynamic headroom from fewer subs. The key advantage of using more 12" models is if you need them to eliminate nulls in a particularly difficult room.

I'd take four of your current Mono 15" models over any of these options. You already have enough SPL capability so even just adding a third 15" sub in the right location may be enough to knock a tricky null on the head.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
It's nuts that two 13" can pull ahead of FIVE 12". I'd have expected nig difference between my SBU13 being sealed etc, but 12" is ported and 500W
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
It's nuts that two 13" can pull ahead of FIVE 12". I'd have expected nig difference between my SBU13 being sealed etc, but 12" is ported and 500W
Only when you're looking at cone sizes but not when you consider the 13" model has 4x the amplifier power. With normal speakers 4x the power would add 6dB which is pretty much what you're seeing from 20-63Hz when you compare single subs.

1647533299661.png


Add in a larger slightly driver and a bigger box and you push it even higher.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
It's nuts that two 13" can pull ahead of FIVE 12". I'd have expected nig difference between my SBU13 being sealed etc, but 12" is ported and 500W


Yup, the 13''s are monsters.

TBH the 13/15/16 are all tuned lower so they have much much better lower frequency performance.

Your 13''s IMO (and the 15s to a slightly lesser extent now the 13''s are frankly better) are the best value audiophile subwoofers on the planet which are commercially available at their price points with excellent sound quality, extension and output.

Can't wait to see 16 numbers. I'm waiting til I seal my room. I'll do an REW sweep and if I'm getting any compression/distortion at reference, I'll grab a pair.
Or if I can get a good deal from @AmericanAudio ;)

As I'm running into big issues trying to fit a third or fourth 15'' in my room. As in, I don't think its physically possible.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Yup, the 13''s are monsters.

TBH the 13/15/16 are all tuned lower so they have much much better lower frequency performance.

Your 13''s IMO (and the 15s to a slightly lesser extent now the 13''s are frankly better) are the best value audiophile subwoofers on the planet which are commercially available at their price points with excellent sound quality, extension and output.

Can't wait to see 16 numbers. I'm waiting til I seal my room. I'll do an REW sweep and if I'm getting any compression/distortion at reference, I'll grab a pair.
Or if I can get a good deal from @AmericanAudio ;)

As I'm running into big issues trying to fit a third or fourth 15'' in my room. As in, I don't think its physically possible.

Yeah unless dedicated large room...
Oh you may want to use sub sonic filter on your monoprice as they don't use one in the plate amo
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member

Conrad

Moderator
Can you do a comparison of duals 16 vs dual 13s?
Just double the differences

As below, the relative difference is the same, max output goes up by 4dB for each sub at each frequency.
 
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Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Just double the differences
Actually it would give the same differences as single vs. single as I would be adding the same fixed amount (4dB) to both sets of numbers.
 

Marshall Mike

Well-known Member
Just double the differences
Wouldn’t the difference remain the same? Is it not the other numbers which will increase by 4db?
 

Conrad

Moderator
Actually it would give the same differences as single vs. single as I would be adding the same fixed amount (4dB) to both sets of numbers.

Wouldn’t the difference remain the same? Is it not the other numbers which will increase by 4db?
Yes, you're both right. Stupidly I doubled the output. It's been a long day :)
 

KBD

Well-known Member
I don't notice the sub getting used a lot, but there are a few instances where it really stands out:

T-Rex walking in original Jurassic Park

buildings being leveled with bombs in Fight Club
 

Lesmor

Distinguished Member
these should eventually make the list




 
D

Deleted member 901590

Guest
Interesting that the M-210 is 101.4dB at 20Hz. It looks like the design aim has been to increase output at higher frequencies over the standard ported range, but you still would've expected to see some increase in the 20Hz figure...

The footprint is quite interesting for the range of duals. As the driver size gets bigger there isn't as much as a proportional increase in footprint, making (just footprint wise) the M-215 not that much more than the M-210.

Take the M-210, it pretty much has the same cabinet depth as the 12" THX ported, so it seems to be that Monoprice are letting the customer choose. They now have a range of sealed, ported and dual ported. Each offering different optimisations in outputs versus their footprint. Which is really interesting.

Of course the M-215 at 98kg I think, unless you have been accidently exposed to gamma radiation and your skin has a green hue, you'd need help moving it around.
 

rccarguy2

Distinguished Member
Wonder if dual 16" is on the cards
 
D

Deleted member 901590

Guest
Hi @Mr Wolf not sure if you're aware but the Mono THX V2s in 10" and 12" ported guise are now on the UK site, alongside the V1s. May be worth putting all four models in the chart, they have different costs and (we assume) the V1s will eventually become obsolete.

Still no UK site signs of the range of THX sealed models or the the double driver range.
 

stevie0

Active Member
@Mr Wolf is it possible to estimate subwoofer SPL output of a custom sub?
I bought some on a whim and was just curious how they might compare to those in the list.
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
@Mr Wolf is it possible to estimate subwoofer SPL output of a custom sub?
I bought some on a whim and was just curious how they might compare to those in the list.
I'm afraid there are too many unknown variables to do that. Unfortunately specs don't correlate well with clean output.

What you could do though if you have a measurement mic is run compression tests on them from 20Hz-120Hz with REW bass sweeps. At the point compression sets in at 20Hz, it's maximum clean (per CEA-2010 THD% levels) output is probably about 3dB-4dB below that point. Go careful though, you don't want to damage a sub and unless it has DSP it probably has no protection mechanism. That would be an in-room figure of course so you'd have to work backwards to get a comparable CEA-2010 @2M RMS estimate based on room size e.g. if in a 3,000Ft3 room deduct 9dB from your result. The result might also be distorted by room gain and room modes.

Another option is to put the sub in the back garden, put the mic at 2M and run your own CEA-2010 test. REW has the CEA-2010 6.5-cycle burst test tones and captures distortion by default. I don't know how accurate that would be though.
 
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LittleNipper

Well-known Member
I'm afraid there are too many unknown variables to do that. Unfortunately specs don't correlate well with clean output.

What you could do though if you have a measurement mic is run compression tests on them from 20Hz-120Hz with REW bass sweeps. At the point compression sets in at 20Hz, it's maximum clean (per CEA-2010 THD% levels) output is probably about 3dB-4dB below that point. Go careful though, you don't want to damage a sub and unless it has DSP it probably has no protection mechanism. That would be an in-room figure of course so you'd have to work backwards to get a comparable CEA-2010 @2M RMS estimate based on room size e.g. if in a 3,000Ft3 room deduct 9dB from your result. The result might also be distorted by room gain and room modes.

Another option is to put the sub in the back garden, put the mic at 2M and run your own CEA-2010 test. REW has the CEA-20910 6.5-cycle burst test tones and captures distortion by default. I don't know how accurate that would be though.
@stevie0 I was going to do a similar thing on these subs. Just ensuring the speaker didn't get any signal below 20hz and then perhaps take it down a hz at a time and see if I see a significant drop off. And that's where I will then stop any signal getting to them. I'm sure with my four it will sound great and your herd it will sound bettter. well feel better.
 

stevie0

Active Member
@stevie0 I was going to do a similar thing on these subs. Just ensuring the speaker didn't get any signal below 20hz and then perhaps take it down a hz at a time and see if I see a significant drop off. And that's where I will then stop any signal getting to them. I'm sure with my four it will sound great and your herd it will sound bettter. well feel better.
Good to hear, because the reply from @Mr Wolf has got me bamboozled 😂
 

stevie0

Active Member
I'm afraid there are too many unknown variables to do that. Unfortunately specs don't correlate well with clean output.

What you could do though if you have a measurement mic is run compression tests on them from 20Hz-120Hz with REW bass sweeps. At the point compression sets in at 20Hz, it's maximum clean (per CEA-2010 THD% levels) output is probably about 3dB-4dB below that point. Go careful though, you don't want to damage a sub and unless it has DSP it probably has no protection mechanism. That would be an in-room figure of course so you'd have to work backwards to get a comparable CEA-2010 @2M RMS estimate based on room size e.g. if in a 3,000Ft3 room deduct 9dB from your result. The result might also be distorted by room gain and room modes.

Another option is to put the sub in the back garden, put the mic at 2M and run your own CEA-2010 test. REW has the CEA-2010 6.5-cycle burst test tones and captures distortion by default. I don't know how accurate that would be though.
Thanks, way over my head I’m afraid though.
I will wait until they’re in situ I guess and go from there.
 

LittleNipper

Well-known Member
Thanks, way over my head I’m afraid though.
I will wait until they’re in situ I guess and go from there.
I've not used REW much. I also thought it was an absolute deep hole of technical balls. It's not. I will have to follow one of the online ( you tube ) video's as a simple refresh. Then it's plug microphone in and run a frequency sweep. If you can borrow or buy a mic. ( super easy to sell on without loosing much money ).

However you might have the same problem as me... Some times I can't be arsed and I'm happy with just listening to 'em.... Not sure what the technical term for that is :)
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
However you might have the same problem as me... Some times I can't be arsed and I'm happy with just listening to 'em.... Not sure what the technical term for that is :)
Contentment. It’s massively underrated.
 

stevie0

Active Member
I've not used REW much. I also thought it was an absolute deep hole of technical balls. It's not. I will have to follow one of the online ( you tube ) video's as a simple refresh. Then it's plug microphone in and run a frequency sweep. If you can borrow or buy a mic. ( super easy to sell on without loosing much money ).

However you might have the same problem as me... Some times I can't be arsed and I'm happy with just listening to 'em.... Not sure what the technical term for that is :)
I have a mic, all the gear but no idea.
I was content with a soundbar tbh, but now I’m on the journey I have the itch to at least know it’s all set up best it can be 👍🏻
If the flat calibrated best it can be sound is not to my taste then I can butcher it like the wife has to the colours on the tv in her room.
 

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