How much is VR worth?

[kenshingintoki]

I asked this question about a year ago and I'm asking it to myself now.


My personal opinion is the gulf in quality between the Rift S, and probably Q2 and the Index/G2 is gigantic. However so is the price tag. Although there may be a step in visual, FOV, colours, audio, immersion, build quality, controllers, haptics, finger tracking, resolution, refresh rate, persistence, physical IPD... blahblah.. whatever we want to bring up... is the price tag worth it for what VR offers?

I've played a few VR games over the past couple of days. Namely Budget Cuts, In Death and Vader Immortal... and well they are okay. But are they worth it? Are they worth the £650 asking price of the Reverb or the £900 of the Index?

I actually don't know anymore. I don't see THAT many amazing games coming out. We're an enthusiast forum who buy £2000+ for speakers, £3000+ for displays... but man.. I'm really not convinced VR is worth it over putting that money somewhere else.

The best games seem to have come out and I don't see much on the horizon which excites me.

Thoughts?

How many times can we play HLA, Stormland, Asgards Wrath, Skyrim et al.

Or is VR really just for simmers?
Is £299 or sub £499 the sweetspot for what VR gaming is actually worth?


I'm just not sure how much longer we can go spec chasing headsets but our best games are titles we've already played.

 

[KingD]

Feel the same at the minute regarding software, little coming and not that much been really making me value the money I have spent on VR to date, its very niche and unless it gets both more widely adopted and more high profile games, I think its going to become nothing more than that, which is unfortunate, I think it has real potential but needs some investment from the big hitters.

 

[kenshingintoki]

Feel the same at the minute regarding software, little coming and not that much been really making me value the money I have spent on VR to date, its very niche and unless it gets both more widely adopted and more high profile games, I think its going to become nothing more than that, which is unfortunate, I think it has real potential but needs some investment from the big hitters.

Me too

If you're a simmer, its great but for general gamers... 2D just offers enough and more complexity and lore and characters that I prefer it.

 

[KingD]

what I dont understand is why some companies havent tried to port over some already existing games, for example, some of Segas arcade shooters like "house of the dead" and "virtua cop" could probably be ported over without too much effort, I saw some guys were playing with VR emulators like Dolphin with some success, but I really dont have the time to be faffing around with that kinda thing with mixed results.
I played through and thoroughly enjoyed Fallout 4 VR a while ago as I hadnt gotten round to playing it anyway, can see no reason why some other developers cant port over some other titles, having played "edge of nowhere" and "hellblade" on VR it proved that 3rd person games can even benefit, being more immersive.

 

[thesnowdog]

Worth every penny.

I've always been a big Fallout and Elder Scrolls fan, a fan of sims, horror games, shooters and action adventure games and all of these games and genres have been covered in spades.

And thankfully Oculus are continuing to bring AAA quality games to VR (the Quest 2 games are also coming to PC VR by the looks of things). We've got Medal of Honor and Lone Echo 2 coming, The Climb 2, Population One, Star Wars Tales From The Galaxy's Edge, Assassin's Creed VR, Splinter Cell VR, Myst and Jurassic World Aftermath.

Doesn't sound too shabby to me.

It would be great if those ****ers at Valve funded developers even a fraction of the amount that Oculus/Facebook do, they've been pretty poor at supporting developers apart from less than a handful of examples. And we've still seen NOTHING of those other two games that they're allegedly working on.

And of course there are plenty of developers like my good self that are developing indie titles that will (hopefully) be of good enough quality to attract free downloads (in the case of Dino Coaster VR from my good self) and purchases from Stores (in the case of Nakamura's Fall VR). Now most of these aren't AAA quality but they're of good enough quality for people to download or buy. There are plenty of games from the Oculus Store that have made over a million dollars so games are selling.

The big turning point as far as AAA games is going to be concerned will be Microsoft getting involved in VR for their NextBox. Once that happens we'll see AAA developers and publishers jumping on to VR support in their games. Currently there are only two platforms (PSVR and PC VR) for publishers to aim at and they'll need at least three before committing millions of dollars to develop and publish games of that sort of quality.

As far as the recent hardware is concerned the G2, Rift S, Pimax and Quest/2 have been worth the price of admission imo, but the Index is at least two hundred quid/dollars more expensive that it should be given the specs of the headset. Like I've said before, if I'm going to be paying a grand for a headset I want Pimax resolution AND FOV for that sort of outlay.

 

[kenshingintoki]

what I dont understand is why some companies havent tried to port over some already existing games, for example, some of Segas arcade shooters like "house of the dead" and "virtua cop" could probably be ported over without too much effort, I saw some guys were playing with VR emulators like Dolphin with some success, but I really dont have the time to be faffing around with that kinda thing with mixed results.
I played through and thoroughly enjoyed Fallout 4 VR a while ago as I hadnt gotten round to playing it anyway, can see no reason why some other developers cant port over some other titles, having played "edge of nowhere" and "hellblade" on VR it proved that 3rd person games can even benefit, being more immersive.

I agree. I'll be honest in that I'm even happy with 'crap ports' like RE7VR which used a PS controller on the PS4.

I think just a game being in VR is sometimes incredibly immersive and there are plenty of games where I think VR would work *Bioshock, HL2 etc.*

 

[kenshingintoki]

Worth every penny.

I've always been a big Fallout and Elder Scrolls fan, a fan of sims, horror games, shooters and action adventure games and all of these games and genres have been covered in spades.

And thankfully Oculus are continuing to bring AAA quality games to VR (the Quest 2 games are also coming to PC VR by the looks of things). We've got Medal of Honor and Lone Echo 2 coming, The Climb 2, Population One, Star Wars Tales From The Galaxy's Edge, Assassin's Creed VR, Splinter Cell VR, Myst and Jurassic World Aftermath.

Doesn't sound too shabby to me.

It would be great if those ******s at Valve funded developers even a fraction of the amount that Oculus/Facebook do, they've been pretty poor at supporting developers apart from less than a handful of examples. And we've still seen NOTHING of those other two games that they're allegedly working on.

And of course there are plenty of developers like my good self that are developing indie titles that will (hopefully) be of good enough quality to attract free downloads (in the case of Dino Coaster VR from my good self) and purchases from Stores (in the case of Nakamura's Fall VR). Now most of these aren't AAA quality but they're of good enough quality for people to download or buy. There are plenty of games from the Oculus Store that have made over a million dollars so games are selling.

The big turning point as far as AAA games is going to be concerned will be Microsoft getting involved in VR for their NextBox. Once that happens we'll see AAA developers and publishers jumping on to VR support in their games. Currently there are only two platforms (PSVR and PC VR) for publishers to aim at and they'll need at least three before committing millions of dollars to develop and publish games of that sort of quality.

As far as the recent hardware is concerned the G2, Rift S, Pimax and Quest/2 have been worth the price of admission imo, but the Index is at least two hundred quid/dollars more expensive that it should be given the specs of the headset. Like I've said before, if I'm going to be paying a grand for a headset I want Pimax resolution AND FOV for that sort of outlay.

I love your enthusiasm but not to dampen expectations too much but Oculus's games going forwards apart from MOH and LE2 will probably be very very cut down simpler games which can run in portable mode on Q2. I wouldn't expect the AC or Splnter Cell game to match or come even close to the complexity of some previous occy exclusives.

I felt the Rift S was very overpriced for what it did in PCVR (used outdated lens, disgusting excuse for audio, lower refresh rate etc. etc.). I agree the Index on the surface was overpriced but once you hold the controllers, you realise you're 2-3 generations ahead of the competition (which has been proven by the fact Oculus on their next gen Q2 headset are no where close and the G2 can't even match the CV1 controllers).

It would have been nice if Valve had a) cut the price of lighthouses down and b) given a budget controller option because clearly the mainstream market cannot afford to match those controllers.

Then agin.. the latest leaks from Sony show.. maybe they are copying the Index controllers..

 

[Atmos]

As far as the recent hardware is concerned the G2, Rift S, Pimax and Quest/2 have been worth the price of admission imo, but the Index is at least two hundred quid/dollars more expensive that it should be given the specs of the headset. Like I've said before, if I'm going to be paying a grand for a headset I want Pimax resolution AND FOV for that sort of outlay.

It’s frankly bizarre you think Pimax is worth the price but you didn’t buy or plan to buy it especially when the 8kX sells for £2000 including base stations and Index controllers.

Is the 8kX worth £1000 more than the Index?

 

[kenshingintoki]

It’s frankly bizarre you think Pimax is worth the price but you didn’t buy or plan to buy it especially when the 8kX sells for £2000 including base stations and Index controllers.

Is the 8kX worth £1000 more than the Index?

I think he is stating he'd like the Pimax 8KX for £1k with Index controllers and base stations.

You have to forgive Snowdog to an extent. He has only used extensively cheap Oculus controllers. For users who've held and used the Index controllers, its fairly clear if they fit your hands, they're worth the money.

But if you're never experienced VR controllers which are 2-3 generations ahead of the competition, then its difficult to understand why the Index is so expensive.

The headset itself at the time of release of £450 was a bargain. Best in class audio, best in class vertical FOV, best in class horizontal FOV, best in class refresh rate, best in class LCD colours, best in class fit and ergonomics of the headset, magnetic face gaskets, glasses relief, physical IPD...

 

[thesnowdog]

I don't give a monkey's how good the controllers are. Like I've said, if I'm going to be spending that sort of cash on a headset I'm expecting MUCH better specs.

Even 2K would have had me a little more convinced, but a 1600p headset for nearly a grand is taking the piss.

The HP flagship headset is two thirds of the price with a higher resolution, the new flagship Oculus headset is less than a third of the price with a higher resolution.

And don't even get me started on the bloody godrays!!! There's NO excuse for releasing a headset with godawful godrays nowadays, especially when you consider the premium price of the thing.

For 920 quid I'm going to want a 2K+ resolution, virtually no SDE and virtually no godrays.

I'd much rather own a G2 or a Quest 2 than an Index anyway.

I might still get a Quest 2 if my Plevin claim comes through. It's only a matter of time before Facebook sort out not only Oculus-Link but also in the not too distant future Air Link too. Once they have wireless play on a VR headset with little to no latency or artifacts it's going to be game over for all of the other headset manufacturers.

A wireless headset playing PC VR games with as good an IQ as competing headsets for less than half or a third of the price? That's going to be pretty crazy. We're probably a year away from Oculus-Link getting there and another year, maybe two, for Air Link but it's going to happen.

 

[kenshingintoki]

I don't give a monkey's how good the controllers are. Like I've said, if I'm going to be spending that sort of cash on a headset I'm expecting MUCH better specs.

Even 2K would have had me a little more convinced, but a 1600p headset for nearly a grand is taking the piss.

The HP flagship headset is two thirds of the price with a higher resolution, the new flagship Oculus headset is less than a third of the price with a higher resolution.

And don't even get me started on the bloody godrays!!! There's NO excuse for releasing a headset with godawful godrays nowadays, especially when you consider the premium price of the thing.

For 920 quid I'm going to want a 2K+ resolution, virtually no SDE and virtually no godrays.

I'd much rather own a G2 or a Quest 2 than an Index anyway.

I might still get a Quest 2 if my Plevin claim comes through. It's only a matter of time before Facebook sort out not only Oculus-Link but also in the not too distant future Air Link too. Once they have wireless play on a VR headset with little to no latency or artifacts it's going to be game over for all of the other headset manufacturers.

A wireless headset playing PC VR games with as good an IQ as competing headsets for less than half or a third of the price? That's going to be pretty crazy. We're probably a year away from Oculus-Link getting there and another year, maybe two, for Air Link but it's going to happen.

Exactly. You don't care how good the controllers are, how immersive the finger tracking is, the multiple input methods, the absolutely perfect precise 1:1 tracking with no blind spots, the superior haptics. You don't care for immersive best in class VR audio, best in class refresh rates, best in class (until the G2) LCD colours, best in consumer class horizontal FOV, best in class vertical FOV...

Its funny how you're upset by the god rays but you give the Rift S a pass on dreadful black levels, dreadful contrast, poor LCD colours, an 80hz refresh rate, a boxed up FOV, rubbish build quality with no glasses relief or FOV slider, no evolution in control scheme and no physical IPD.

The Index just isn't for you because everything it does, you don't care for, and everything Oculus seems to offer, you like. Whether its coincidence or a subconscious bias, its just becoming very very obvious at this point. Every flaw the Index does have is a complete and absolute dealbreaker. Its funny, cute, hillarious but also annoying that you just don't admit you're very anti-valve and very fanboy-oculus. +

Similar to Atmos, when CV1 was easily the best VR deal in town but he'd support any other VR headset (even bought a Pimax).

At the time the Index was released, the G2 wasn't on the market.

The Q2 is incomparable to the Index. Despite having a higher resolution panel, the latest through the lens comparison still shows the Q2's image is trading blows and at times losing to the Index. And this is with the Index having a bigger FOV and being released 12-18 months earlier. And as usual, the oculus LCD colours look awful.

 

[kenshingintoki]

I don't give a monkey's how good the controllers are. Like I've said, if I'm going to be spending that sort of cash on a headset I'm expecting MUCH better specs.

Even 2K would have had me a little more convinced, but a 1600p headset for nearly a grand is taking the piss.

The HP flagship headset is two thirds of the price with a higher resolution, the new flagship Oculus headset is less than a third of the price with a higher resolution.

And don't even get me started on the bloody godrays!!! There's NO excuse for releasing a headset with godawful godrays nowadays, especially when you consider the premium price of the thing.

For 920 quid I'm going to want a 2K+ resolution, virtually no SDE and virtually no godrays.

I'd much rather own a G2 or a Quest 2 than an Index anyway.

I might still get a Quest 2 if my Plevin claim comes through. It's only a matter of time before Facebook sort out not only Oculus-Link but also in the not too distant future Air Link too. Once they have wireless play on a VR headset with little to no latency or artifacts it's going to be game over for all of the other headset manufacturers.

A wireless headset playing PC VR games with as good an IQ as competing headsets for less than half or a third of the price? That's going to be pretty crazy. We're probably a year away from Oculus-Link getting there and another year, maybe two, for Air Link but it's going to happen.

Also you need to get your head around the price tag. Its £900 for people who weren't apart of the Vive ecosystem. For those who chose to go Vive, they had the light house trackers.

So it was £450 for a far far superior headset and £250 quid or whatever price the Index controllers were if you wanted them.

Its not Valve's fault that some of us (including myself) put our faith and cash into Oculus who relegated within one generation our constellation trackers to pieces of redundant crap, similar to what the Rift S is now.

The G2 is coming in at a fantastic price point but you need to understand it comes with the worst in class controllers with no capacative touch and it uses a crap tracking system which doesn't hold a candle to the lighthouses. If you break the Index down component by component, the headset was fantastic value for what it offered at the time. The base stations are overpriced IMO, and the controllers are as expensive as they are because frankly they are the most advanced controllers of all time. They make premium controllers like the Xbox Elite look like something from the year 2010.

I'd also prefer a G2 FYI to the current Index headset and it'll likely be my next upgrade IF I can get it to play with the Index controllers. The Index controllers are simply 2-3 generations ahead of the competition and absolutely worth it. Using the Oculus controllers feels prehistoric now. Its like playing on a PS3 or PS2.