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how much for an electric greyhawk 160cm wide?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Jules, May 9, 2004.

  1. Jules

    Jules
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    My HC is going to be moving and my current screen won't fit.

    It's a Stewart Greyhawk, manual pull down, tab tensioned, 6ft wide (82inch diagonal). I'm really pleased with it and want to stick with the Greyhawk material.

    Does anyone know how much a 160cm wide electric Greyhawk would cost?
    Also, anyone have an idea how much my manual 6ft screen would fetch?
     
  2. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    Probably in the region of £2000 to £3000, but Gordon of Convergence will be able to give you a quote.

    Having seen a Firehawk, I can understand why you want to stick with it. :)

    Gary.
     
  3. maxcat

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    Relatively little.

    The Grey Hawk is the screen equivalent of the dodo. It's last year's model with the price dropping by the day.

    The Grey Hawk has (thankfully) largely vanished from serious HT discussion as digital projection now exceeds the need for a screen fix patch as crude and primitive as the GreyHawk.

    Sell it to someone who doesn't have a projector capable of producing near CRT level blacks.

    But sell it fast - the GreyHawk is rightly taking its place as a product of its time - but that time past it by very quickly indeed.


    Max Christoffersen
     
  4. Jeff

    Jeff
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    There aren't any digital projectors that can produce near CRT black levels.
     
  5. Russ

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    Maxcat
    Interesting point of view !

    If you read the review of the Sony Qualia SXRD (that brand new bright new technology projector) in Stereophile Guide to Home Cinema (May2004), you will find that they thought the picture on the FireHawk was recommended..

    So maybe event these new technology projectors might still get some life out of the grey screens for a few months yet !

    Jules, given the price of a new screen (~4k) you might value a 'perfect' used screen at less than 1.5k-2k sad but possible.

    Russ
     
  6. Gary Lightfoot

    Gary Lightfoot
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    I was speaking personaly to Don Stewart just two weeks ago, and he informed me that they have had Joe Kane tweaking the Greyhawk formula, so it still seems a viable product that the company is happy to sell. Don't forget that grey screens have been around a long time and are still suitable for ambient light projection.

    We did have some interesting chats though, and I asked him about various opinions that have been voiced about his screens, and the replies were most enlightening. ;)

    I have to say though, the Firehawk does seem like an excellent product and more suitable now that modern digital projectors (made with the home cinema market in mind), have fewer lumens than the presentation market pjs.

    As for the term 'patch' which you like to use so often describing Stewart products, you only have to look at the Videomatte 200 which is high gain and colour corrected for CRT, so you could say that CRT needs a patch as well. :)

    If someone has a high lumen pj and/or ambient light, then the Greyhawk is still a viable option for them. The boardroom, for example, can be an ideal place for such a screen.

    Gary.
     
  7. maxcat

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    The buzz around the GreyHawk has died.

    It is a product that was well suited for projection for its time, but is now indeed in need of a 'tweak', and I am not surprised Joe Kane has been called in to update the product.

    It has been falling off the radar for some time, largely replaced by other screen types - check CES and see how many are still using it in contrast to the time of its release.

    It was always going to be the case that grey screens would simply have a use-by date and that date arrived when black levels and contrast ratios of digital projection increased.

    The compromise of the grey screen was simply no longer a requirement to gain black level.

    Secondly CRT and high gain screens are a good combination just as they are with low light level DLP projectors and as patches go it's a great fit as many CRT/DLP owners will testify.

    If there is a buzz in the screen market, it is (predictably) about high gain screens.

    Lastly I hope you apologised to Don Stewart for deliberaltey misleading readers in numerous forums about the product. It was the least you should have done for placing 'unsafe' (your description) advice about the Greyhawk in public newsgroups.

    I genuinely hope that your meeting has now armed you with the facts that you will pass on reliable 'safe' information without any ommissions or editorialising.

    Max Christoffersen
     
  8. maxcat

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  9. Jules

    Jules
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    The greyhawk compliments my Sony VW11 and HS20 very well... far better than a 1.5 gain white screen I had before it.
    Not every one likes DLP, or has the room for CRT..... which leaves LCD.
    LCD in darkened room needs a Greyhawk... doesn't it?
    You've got me thinking now.

    But if the Greyhawk is getting old hat and depreciating fast, show me where I can get a knock down priced one that meets my requirements.
     
  10. Gary Lightfoot

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    As new products become old, they cease to be raved about. It happens all the time. When tv was new, people would go around to a friends place to watch it. Now we all have one, the excitment has stopped, but who goes round to look at someone elses 20" 4:3 tv? :)

    Front projection will go through a similar process, now that it's more affordable and assesable to the public.

    The same thing has happened to the Greyhawk, and will happen to the Firehawk. It's a natural phenomenon, so it's no surprise that the Greyhawk chatter has died down.

    As lumens decrease, then gain requirements may increase. CRT is testament to that. It doesn't mean that grey screens don't have a market. I find it dissapointing that you mention Stewart screens with such detrament though. They aren't the only ones to make grey screens you know.

    Why is an apology required? The screendoor issue was confirmed by Don Stewart himself as you very well know, so I doubt he'll want an apology for his own info. Besides, I was talking about grey screens in general after reading various comments regarding the reduction of screendoor.

    It's only because you made an issue of it that I asked Don for verification in the first place, and you've stalked me ever since.

    It's old news Max, and about time you moved on. Or is this where you start to get personal again, and behave like you do on the newsgroups?

    No doubt I'll start seeing my name in the header of threads with my comments misrepresented etc.... :)

    Gary.
     
  11. maxcat

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    Excellent! I'm glad a Forum like this can get people thinking. Typically this view point just gets people fighting so I am estatic you have an open mind on it!

    And I am sure your Greyhawk is a great match for those projectors - it's what it was designed for.

    And getting a used one? I can't say for the UK, but they come up from time to time as people go through the upgrade path to the Firehawk or other non-grey screen types - try EBay - or keep a look out at your local Hi-Fi dealer or import from the USA.

    What I have noticed is those that sell, are keen to quit them - even Lightfoot's estimate of sale price had a +/- of a $1000UK sterling. That is a big variation.

    And when you factor in the buzz of Joe Kane doing a fix-up job on the Greyhawk - well - I'd get out *now*!

    Max Christoffersen
     
  12. maxcat

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    This is probably the area of greatest concern/dissappointment.

    I've been around projection for a long time having seen Sharpvision in action in the late 1980s.

    At that time we though a couple of things would happen by 2001.

    A) Digital would pass CRT in *all* aspects

    B) You would have massive light outputs making large screens possible

    C) Pixel failure would be a non-issue

    D) Blacks would be a non-issue

    E) LCD projection would be a thing of the past

    F) Convergance misalignment would have no meaning

    And for the most part none of this has happened.

    The same issues in place in 1989 are still in place today.

    The current crop of projectors are a real dissappiontment because none of the key improvements some of the early HT pioneers thought would happen, have happened.

    And the best we can look forward to is even lower light output? With a new grey screen being update and released?

    That really isn't the picture some of us had in mind back then..

    Max Christoffersen
     
  13. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    Cut it out. I'm not going to stand for that kind of crap in this forum.
     
  14. maxcat

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    Agreed.

    That is why I ignored it and posted on the facts.

    Everyone here is enjoying the discussion Gary - stick to the topic and it'll be another enjoyable and maybe enlightening discussion.

    If you want to crank-up the grey screen issue again (sigghhh), take it to the newsgroups.

    Respect the rules and conduct of this Forum or you will be moderated out just as you have been at the AVS for doing *exactly* the same thing.

    Max Christoffersen
     
  15. Stuart Wright

    Stuart Wright
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    You know very will I was talking to you, Mr Christoffersen and neither yourself nor Gary Lightfoot will continue your previous 'battles' on this forum.
    I await now with finger poised on the ban button to see which of you steps out of line first...
     
  16. maxcat

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    Or you too could simply deal with the issues raised here and get on with talking about digital projection/grey screen performance.

    Over to you.

    Max Christoffrsen
     
  17. Mr.D

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    I for one am fully intent on purchasing an electric greyhawk screen in the near future. I 've recently bought an HS20.

    Why?

    I can't live with any single chip dlp I've seen because of the rainbowing. I can't live with a CRT because of the size and I also see refresh mismatches ( I think) and to be honest I'm not blown away with the colour rendition on CRTs generally.

    So given my options the HS20 with greyhawk combo seems like a good one. I admittedly haven't seen a firehawk but two things put me off: hotspotting , although its unlikely it will be much of an issue as the screen is effectively the width of the room and price ( for a 1500quid projector I'm aiming to not spend much more than the same again on the screen as hopefully in a couple of years I'll be able to buy a projector without the compromises that we currently deal with.
     

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