How much crosstalk (ghosting) has your 3D TV? Test it!

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by Nanite, Nov 17, 2010.

  1. Nanite

    Nanite
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    3D Plasmas seems to have good 3D performance. The only problem is crosstalk in dark background scenes at least in Samsung models.

    Lets gather performance results from our TVs
    Download this side-by-side L-R 3D video:
    3D_crosstalk_test_1080p_SBS_L-R.mp4 - File Shared from Box.net - Free Online File Storage

    - Place it on USB stick, put the stick on TV and play it. Panasonic VT owners needs to play it from other external device (BD player) to be able to enable the 3D mode.
    - Enable 3D and choose the side-by-side mode and open 3D glasses.
    - In the middle of the video press pause.
    - First close your right eye and write the smaller number which is visible on the top half screen and then write the smaller number which is visible on the bottom half screen
    - Do the same procedure then with the left eye closed.

    .MPO 3D still picture version of the image from the video which can be downloaded here:
    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7350380/testpattern.mpo
    The side by side jpeg can be downloaded here:
    http://3dfrank.com/testpattern.jpg
    You can play .MPO 3D picture files with PS3 'Play Memories' program available free from PSN.
    Panasonic plasmas can play this from memory stick.

    Example how you can answer:
    3D TV model: Samsung PN50C7705 50" Plasma
    3D glasses model: Samsung original battery powered.

    Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
    Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 3
    Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 3
    Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

    If you can't see the top/bottom half screen you must answer:
    Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 4
    Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING
    Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING
    Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 5

    With this crosstalk test we can measure how good performs each set 3d tv/3d glasses with dark bakground scenes.

    The best possible results for crosstalk are:
    Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
    Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING
    Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING
    Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

    ...Shamelessly copied this topic from other forum that lies in the dark corner of the internet to get more results.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2010
  2. Nanite

    Nanite
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    3D TV model: Samsung PN50C7705 50" Plasma
    3D glasses model: Samsung original battery powered & XPand X103 Unversal glasses.
    The results are the same with both glasses but Xpand gives better real life results as the crosstalk is dimmer.

    Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
    Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 3
    Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 3
    Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

    Mine is just horrible, only the two darkest levels are not visible to the other eye :rolleyes: everything else bleeds through. Samsung needs to fix this.
    But dont get me wrong. 3D movies plays just fine on this Samsung. There are so few scenes that has this big contrast. Normal scenes have no issues.

    EDIT:
    Results from the .mpo files played with PS3 'Play Memories' 3D pic gallery app.
    This can be treated as results with frame packed material as the PS3 app puts the TV in 'proper 3D mode' same as used with the 3D Bluray movies.
    Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
    Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 10
    Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 10
    Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

    Much better compared to side-by-side material. There seems to be room for improvement in timings with Samsung plasmas in sbs mode.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2010
  3. jonerkinsella

    jonerkinsella
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    I'le give it a go later.
     
  4. eye of ra

    eye of ra
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    3D TV model: Samsung PS63C7000 Plasma F/W 3003
    3D glasses model: Samsung original battery powered.

    Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
    Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 2
    Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 3
    Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


    Can someone with an LG and Panny please do the same test.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  5. simongwynne

    simongwynne
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    Terrific thread, I'll give it a go later.
     
  6. Finjogi

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    Because LCD classes bleed by % it is almost impossible to not see even darker shades... better way could be test that shows how much bleeding there is,. 5%, 10%, 15% or what.. I'll try to do that this evening :)
     
  7. vader100

    vader100
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    Not sure how you can have NOTHING as an answer, are you supposed to only see one set of numbers with each eye? Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are supposed to see with each eye closed. The way I read it is that with my right eye closed I can see almost all of both sets of numbers which is absolutely awful, almost maximum amounts of crosstalk?

    Can someone enlighten me?:blush:
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2010
  8. Modelistis

    Modelistis
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    Same with me! I cannot fully understand this test.
    I can se almost all numbers in both upper and lower part of the screen.
     
  9. eye of ra

    eye of ra
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    As I understand it the idea is the bigger the number between the 2 numbers for each eye the better, perfect would be not being able to see any numbers therefore being infinite.

    So in my case

    Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
    Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 2
    Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 3
    Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


    There is a difference of only 1 and 2 meaning a lot of light is getting through.

    To be honest I was expecting better than this, explains why I cant used 3D on anything with dark scenes. I know my old Panny did much better at crosstalk than my current Sammy so would love to see the figures for this.

    Also if other Sammy owners are getting much better results I will know I have a problem.
     
  10. clle

    clle
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    I have a LG 50px990 and I get:

    Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
    Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 10
    Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 9
    Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

    Not sure if good or bad ?
     
  11. Nanite

    Nanite
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    Better than Samsungs clle ;)

    Yeah only one set of numbers. Mainly DLP Projector owners can get the "nothing" result.

    This is the best way to put the results in correct order.
     
  12. ianbuckley

    ianbuckley
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    Panasonic TX-P85VT20B with original battery glasses.

    Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
    Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 20
    Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 20
    Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1
     
  13. simongwynne

    simongwynne
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    This is pretty much what I get with a C7000, perhaps 1341. Impressed with the 10 and 9 from the LG, have any Panasonic owners had a go?
     
  14. airmyx

    airmyx
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    This thread is a good idea although unfortunately it is not seperating the effects of the panel from the effects of the individual manufacturers glasses.

    I suppose there can be 'good' crosstalk (i.e shortcomings of the glasses) and 'bad' crosstalk (i.e phosphor lag).

    I say 'good' in the sense that you may be able to improve the 3D experience by upgrading to more modern glasses as they become available...?
     
  15. sTTuey

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    Just given this a go on my PS63C7000, latest 3003 firmware:

    Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
    Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 5
    Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 5
    Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

    Same results with both battery and rechargeable type glasses.

    I was expecting to see *only* the top half with right eye closed and vice versa - Just shows how crap the 3D actually is at the moment, no wonder these are first generation sets!

    Still, laser eye surgery has Mod Comment: removed, Circumventing the swear filter my eyes so I see ghosting of my own, so more from the TV is no big deal :rolleyes:

    3D? It's a gimmick!!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 19, 2010
  16. eye of ra

    eye of ra
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    My thoughts with my 7000 are that it's mainly the glasses causing such a low score.

    When I had the VT20, which has got a much better score so far, the light coming through a window flickered badly which indicates to me that the glasses were blocking quite a lot of the light out. The 7000 glasses don't flicker any where near as much so must be letting a lot more light through.

    Your 5 score is starting to make me think I have a problem with my set/glasses with only a 2 and 3 score.

    A few more scores of would help confirm this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  17. Parmenion62

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    Samsung PS50C680 Battery operated glasses

    Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1
    Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 20
    Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 20
    Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1
     
  18. simongwynne

    simongwynne
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    OK, so I'm a little confused as to why the C7000 is doing so badly here.
     
  19. fredgee

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    I was really pleased to see this thread. I thought maybe I could get some clarity in the fog of trying to find out which new plasma to buy with the least crosstalk. I see some Samsung 7000 has been getting 3s and 4s and the Lg 10 and the panasonic 20 (I guess these results seem quite accurate as the Panasonic is meant to be the daddy of crosstalk free 3D.) now I see a Samsung 680 with 20's ? The same as the Panasonic. Are you taking the P... Or is this right ? ( sorry if correct.) ... Looks like the Fog is starting to descend again....

    Sorry for any mistokes as I'm on my IPhone and I have Fat Fingers..
     
  20. mickeyb01

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    Samsung PS50C680 Battery operated glasses

    Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 5
    Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 15
    Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 5
    Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 15
    __________________
    What source are you viewing when using a usb stick to play media file . How do you calibrate it?
     
  21. Nanite

    Nanite
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    El cheapo Samsung PS50C680 has a great score that was quite unexpected. I though it should have similar score than C7000. Settings doesn affect much in C7000, to make the more numbers to disappear the pic has totally flattened contrast.

    c7000 has to have some firmware problem, the glasses timings prolly needs some tuning.

    The universal XPand X103 glasses could make things differ little, they are out now. One C7000 user in the US forums reports less ghosting but one C490 user says it didnt help.
    XPAND - Universal 3D Glasses
     
  22. Finjogi

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    Ok, here is my take on this crosstalk measuring:

    Here is a side-by-side 720p video what you can use to see how much much crosstalk there is ( %, percentage)
    3d_crosstalk_test_02.wmv

    The video has 4 parts, white, red, green and blue crosstalk test. Pause the video to point you want to examine. Play the video using TV's mediaplayer (or whatever you prefer..) and switch 3d side-by-side mode.
    - Every other row there is "fullbright color" for right eye.
    - Every other row contains numbered colorslide for left eye
    - Look picture through left lens, you see numbered color slide fine and some amount of right eye color bleeds through
    - look where this bleeding color matches numbered colors, that is your crosstalk percentage.
    - note, it is easier to check red, green, and blue... white bleeding is tinted, harder to pick up..

    Here is 2 example images taken with digicam through 3d classes:
    harmaa.jpg
    vihrea.jpg
    "Grey" image is converted to "grayscale" but green one is just what camera took.

    Here is my 63C7705 results by eyeballing through classes:
    Red crosstalk 26%
    Green crosstalk 24%
    Blue crosstalk 9%
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2010
  23. the boots man

    the boots man
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    I've had the c7000 plasma and the 680 and the 680 definatly has less crosstalk, i didn't know if it was because i had the c7000 a few months ago and maybe the 680 had a newer firmware?
     
  24. eye of ra

    eye of ra
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    Tried this new test and results are
    Samsung PS63C7000 Plasma F/W 3003
    Red 30%
    Green 30%
    Blue 7%
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  25. simongwynne

    simongwynne
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    Re-tested the C7000 with different settings and have got some quite different results - on standard mode I seem to get 1991, while movie gets 1341. Also raising the brightness helps as it brings the black level up I guess.
     
  26. SVSurf

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    I got C7000 and it came with 1021 firmware. Started checking for crosstalk and found that one eye is more exposed than another one. Got latest FW 1030 and both eyes getting bad crosstalk, so the defect is controlled by firmware.

    I wish to get those test files when I got TV, but I going to experiment with it now. One thing I want to identify if it's glasses issue or TV sync issue. So far it looks like Samsung trying to "improve" brightness, thus opening each eye for too long.
    I going to experiment with two set of glasses at the same time (one glasses on the top of other). If the crosstalk due to bleeding, two glasses should improve quality (let's say they bleed 20% each, hence two glasses will bleed only 4%)

    In case it's timing issue (each eye is open for too long or at wrong time) two glasses will not improve a thing.

    If anyone can try it before, please post results.
     
  27. SVSurf

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    I did experiment with x-talk test and here what I got:

    Single glasses: 1331 which is pretty much in line with other C7000 users or in other words very crappy performance.

    Then I looked through two set of glasses and got very same 1331. Looking through two sets of glasses didn't improved a thing. Meaning that observed crosstalk is due to shutters being OPEN and not due to bleed while shutter is CLOSED. Hence concludes that sync signal that TV sends forcing shutter to open for too long.

    Anyone tried to contact Samsung and point to this test? I did regular CS call and all they went through is regular routing "replace board, replace transmitter" and nothing helped of course.
     
  28. vader100

    vader100
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    This has been a little disappointing for me. I think the C6900 is a terrific TV but the performance on this test is nothing short of abysmal. If other TV's are getting much better results then I think I could argue to Samsung that this TV is not fit for purpose.
     
  29. lloydread

    lloydread
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    This really is a great post and makes very interesting reading. I was really disapppinted with the crosstalk on the c7000 and now I can see I'm not the only one, really interesting to see the c680 doing so much better.
     
  30. adrianwright

    adrianwright
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    Hi lloydread,

    I am too struggling with the crosstalk / ghosting on the 63C7000. What set do you have now as a matter of interest?
     

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