How many more years of 4k "flagships"?

Discussion in 'General TV Discussions Forum' started by crabby09, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. crabby09

    crabby09
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    It's struck me as ridiculous that we are now seeing 8k tellies... but that's the way of the industry! My worry is that I wait slightly too long and miss the last year 4k TVs will get all the "flagship" features before 8k become the flagship norm... I try and keep informed, and as a result I am guessing at around 3 more years - but wanted to check with the better informed before i start worrying...

    So, what do you think?

    Thanks!
     
  2. simonlewis

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    I'm guessing another two-three years before 8K becomes mainstream.

    Why whats the panic ?
     
  3. EndlessWaves

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    I'm surprised 4K is still going, but I suppose it makes enough of a difference for really big TVs to be worthwhile moving everyone to that standard. Plus it's been tied in with stuff like HEVC that makes a real difference in the mainstream.

    I haven't really looked into 8K but it doesn't seem like it has any comparable selling points, so it'll likely disappear the way 200hz screens disappeared.
     
  4. crabby09

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    I worry that miscellaneous features which really help the viewing experience like black filters, anti reflection coatings, even codec support etc and flagship chipsets may start being held exclusively for 8k sets and I don't have the want or the money to jump on to that resolution.

    My plasma is showing its age, so I am going to be in the market soon and I don't want to miss the year the flagships switch. Right now, you don't get any 1080p sets with flagship features - so it all comes down to bang for buck for me.
     
  5. crabby09

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    The man on the street will always think more is better... So the manufacturers will produce that way. Hertz etc go above the heads of most people - so take a 28 inch 4k monitor @ 60hz or a 21.5 inch 2k screen at 200hz and I guess most people would go "bigger is better"? So, in theory, "8k is better than 4k" will be the mantra soon and at some point that will mean 4k is no longer the "focus".
     
  6. addyeddy

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    I think most people will tell manufacturers where they can stick their 8k TV's As it stands 4k is yet to make its mark, no channel broadcasting it as the norm, the chances of mainstream broadcasters adopting it seems to be pie in the sky, heck, we only have a handful capable of 1080p! I think you're many years away from needing to worry about 4k being left in the dust by 8k. Now if you want to hang on for them to sort out micro led......
     
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  7. Norman

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    The first 4K TV’s launched in 2013 and that was the last year flag-ship FullHD (1080p) models appeared in most manufactures ranges.
    I don’t expect to see 8K dominate quite so quickly, but I’ll put 50p on the table and say 4K flagships will disappear within the next 2 years.
     
  8. Kend3591

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    I think that Samsung and Sony have decided that with led, the flagship is the 8K model and the 4K variants have less features.
     
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  9. Norman

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    Yes, I think my 2 year guess may be overly optimistic and it might be as early as CES 2020 when all the high-end LCD will be 8K only.
     
  10. Kend3591

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    Sony have already announced ZF9 to ZG9, ZF9 must be one of the shortest lived models for Sony high end tv.
    The Samsung 2019 reveal will be interesting.
    I am not sure if you call LG And Panasonic high end led.
     
  11. Norman

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    Panasonic haven’t had a high-end LED since 2016, but it was interesting to see LG show 8K LED this week at CES.
    I’m guessing 8K OLED will be price prohibitive in the short term and LG must feel they need to have an affordable 8K LED offering, and I’ll bet another 50p that this time next year Panasonic will too :)
     
  12. Abacus

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    Pretty sure this will be the last year for high end 4K sets, as next years 8K sets will be the same price as this year’s high end 4K sets, 4K sets will continue in the entry to midterm ranges for another 2-3 years though

    Bill
     
  13. Norman

    Norman
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    I think that’s probably true for LED, but can’t see 8K OLED being price competitive next year.
     
  14. Matson

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    The Flagships are pretty much becoming 8K now. The 8K LG OLED is pretty much there flagship model. The Sony LED sets the ZG9 are the flagship LED LCD sets. Samsung Q900R is still the Flagship Samsung set at the moment. They didn't even show off there 4K panels to the public at all and only announced more sizes for there 8K Q900.
     
  15. iangreasby

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    I can't see 8k TVs being commonplace within the next 5 years. For watching normal HD broadcasts, 4k TVs are already exposing some of the flaws of low bitrates /highly compressed content that the TV companies sometimes use and, dare I say, get away with. Until broadcasting technology improves, then watching HD content on a 8k TV will generally result in poor picture quality. Possibly 8k TVs will become the norm when 4k broadcasts have become the norm and that looks a few years off.
     
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  16. Norman

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    The same argument was made when 4K appeared but that didn’t stop it from toppling TrueHD.
    Whether it’s needed or not (I’m in the Not camp), the marketing machine will kick in to overdrive and it will be the next big thing.
     
  17. Nativebon

    Nativebon
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    Been there done that. Well they not getting my money unless my TV set breaks or stops working.
    Honestly the whole thing is a joke.
     
  18. majorstare

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    As I sit here watching my 6 yr old LG HD TV (top of the range when new), connected to Freeview and a Blu-ray player. I honestly can't see the point of spending hundreds, if not thousands of pounds on a new "better" TV.
    I refuse to pay a subscription to watch a few more HD channels, which to be honest I'm not interested in.... Football.... and for movies I'd rather buy a Blu-ray and get better quality.

    I have the same setup as probably the majority of the UK.
    Untill more HD connect is available or 4K is broadcast, absolutely no point in spending £££££ on 8K equipment.

    Just my 2 pence worth
     
  19. kiran_mk2

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    From the interview with LG's rep it looks like LG consider the rollable 4K OLED to be their 2019 flagship and the 8K OLED is the next model down.

    Personally I don't think we'll see true 8K flagships until the proper 8K standard has been published - similar to how 4k displays appeared in 2012 but the UHD Premium speci didn't appear until CES 2016 - meaning that early adoptors got screens that were technically 4k resolution but didn't get HDMI ports that could display more that 30 Hz @ 4k, didn't support the DRM that came with 4K sources, didn't support the main 4K codec (HEVC) and didn't support any HDR standard. We don't know what will happen with 8K standards - will there be an extra benefit beyond resolution (in the way HDR was) and will we need HDMI 2.2 to support it? Who knows?
    The next question is who is pushing for 8K content? The online streaming services were the big proponents of 4K as they could push content far quicker the TV and disc-based systems so it gave them a marketing advantage. With 8k I imagine there will be no streaming-based services until VVC (the successor to HEVC) is finallised allowing a reduction in filesize. At the moment this is scheduled for the end of 2020 so CES 2021 could be the launch of official 8k services.
     
  20. Reyreyrey

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    I read a few years ago (2015ish) that they were planning on broadcasting the 2020 Tokyo Olympics in 8K in Japan. Looks like they are on course.
     
  21. adnydrum

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    They already have: NHK began the service in December.
     
  22. Over by there

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    I hope 8K kicks off a lot. It is not just what you see in front of the screen. There will be a lot of development behind the scenes both in improving coder/decode software (mentioned above) and hardware and storage and transport to go with it. And I bet all the larger broadcasters have considered it (as far as do/don't we, can we, plan of action, road map, leave it for now etc.).

    The usual manufactures for broadcast seem to have them off the shelf (cameras).

    There are services running on satellite and I believe over aerial in the far east somewhere as mentioned above?

    Went to see one on display in John Lewis. The picture is superb. Yes it was authored for the display and on a loop but it was good.

    How long till normal or dies a death, who knows.

    Actually getting excited about 8k (insert minion looking at illumination sign emoji here)
     
  23. Trollslayer

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    I think you mean Full HD.
     
  24. MahaRaja

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    We barely have enough content, let alone 8K, it will not take off for at another 10 years! No content provider has announced any content on 8K, except NHK Japan, where the natives can watch.

    If customers are forced to pay extra for 8K TV, which they'll not use but have to upscale all their HD and 4K content, for high end features, then its sad that TV companies are jumping ahead of the gun, to make some quick bucks.

    I'll gladly pay for a 8K set, providing there is some content, not Youtube clips and demos and not have to move to Japan to watch NHK:D
     
  25. nonsoloinglese

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    The only real number that counts for the man on the street is the size of screen relative to price. Every other metric is for a portion of the market probably between 5-10%
     
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  26. PhilipL

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    Hi

    In the average domestic home we simply don't have the space to have a large enough TV to see any of the extra resolution 8K will provide, and for a lot of people they struggle to notice an improvement on 4K over HD, if they can actually watch something in 4K.

    Then we have compression. For example UHD 4K on YouTube (or other streaming services) might decompress to a 4K frame, but what it contains in detail is often little improvement over HD, yes it looks a lot better than the equivalent HD stream, but that's only because compression means the HD stream is really just something like excellent SD.

    So improvements most people see watching a 4K stream isn't because it's 4K, its simply because its had more bits thrown at it, so ends up looking like excellent HD. You could just take the same HD stream, keep it at 1080P but with the same bit-rate/compression codec and it would probably look very similar to what is tagged 4K, certainly from typical viewing distances. This is proven time and time again by people saying how much better 4K on YouTube looks on their 1080P monitors compared to the 1080P stream.

    The irony is to get something that maxes out the ability of 4K resolution and detail that marketing has been selling us, will take 8K streams!

    Marketing and PR will give us 8K screens simply because they can do it, and bigger numbers makes us replace perfectly good TVs with new ones, that is all the industry is about these days.

    Regards

    Phil
     
  27. Over by there

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    Compression is a need and until we get linear to the home, it stays in many digital mediums. Good efficient coders both hardware and software certainly can deliver 4k with 4k clarity.

    The overall transport of a 4k is very important. From the original 4k copy or live 4k to the screen. Minimum re encodes or rather no re encodes once the first is done from the master and a careful transit through a network to your screen. Done right it is good and the 4k is a good step up from the HD version.

    I don't watch youtube past one or two shows on there probably HD tops. Live sport is certainly noticeable as 4k as are films authored well on Apple TV. For me there is s definite increase in detail. And 8K demo certainly seems a step up on 4k.

    I have found in the past that pointing out what to look for in a TV picture can get people to see the benefits.
     
  28. Sandyb01

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    Yes, but watching HD on a 4K screen, and on an 8K screen could be quite different no?

    Guess not all broadcast HD will look terrible on 8K, but some certainly will.

    So not sure if its quite the same.

    But broadly, agree that if TV brands make it the default spec, well, then its the default spec....
     
  29. crabby09

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    It is worrying isn't it? I mean none of us "know" when this will happen, but we are pretty much all saying we'd prefer the best 4k can provide than splashing out on a pointless 8k with a massive price premium... And yet the Co sesus appears to be that in a couple of years that's what we will be left with!

    Looks like I may be buying this time next year depending on CES news...
     
  30. Matson

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    While we currently have barely any 8K content and in the UK none at all. The more 8K sets these companies start releasing the sooner where going to start seeing 8K content. People that are saying its going to be 5+ years away I think will be surprised. Look at how many 8K flagship sets have been shown at CES this year and its only going to grow even more next year to the point that broadcasters and streaming services ect are seriously going to have to start to think about 8K content.

    As someone who owns an 8K TV from my experience I see it as a refinement of 4K. Its not a huge leap but there are differences. They are much more subtle than the leap from SD to HD and HD to 4K but its more a refinement in the picture than another huge leap and I feel 8K is the endgame when it comes to resolution in the home. You get better colour because you have 4 pixels to colour separately compared to a single pixel in 4K. There is also less aliasing in the image and smaller details have more refinement.

    I personally feel that streaming services are going to be the first to do 8K and looking at this CES it seems companies want this to happen asap considering most of the top ones are now releasing 8K sets this year.
     

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