1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

How Long before its the "norm"

Discussion in 'Televisions' started by Party Animal, Feb 14, 2004.

  1. Party Animal

    Party Animal
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    241
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    Interesting to see this 'Hi Def' forum has become a lot more active since the start of Euro1080

    I would 'Like all others who have seen HI Def'
    give anything to have a 24/7 Hi Def Channel.. How many long years are us poor souls in the UK going to have to wait for it

    I know things have to start somewhere, but I want a full service NOW

    When will that happen... suppose when I see Coronation Street in all its glory being shown
     
  2. Ronan

    Ronan
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2002
    Messages:
    48
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    Dublin
    Ratings:
    +6
    HDTV won't take off until you can get cheap HD-DVD. When HD-DVD takes off in the US and loads of DVDs become available, then people in Europe will start to buy HD TVs and the TV stations will follow.

    The widescreen programmes that we get through Sky Digital are much better resolution than the average NTSC TV in the US, so there's less of an incentive for the likes of the BBC to convert to HD at the moment.
     
  3. Party Animal

    Party Animal
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    241
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    I actually emailed Sky TV to see whet there response to a HI DEF channel would be.... instead of pumping out endless dross with next to no bandwidth

    I pointed out that the recent surge in Plasma/LCD sales with Hi Res capabilities would be perhaps a good time to launch a premium HI DEF channel

    so far I have not had a response.... if I get one I will post it here
     
  4. Party Animal

    Party Animal
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    241
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
    Just recieved this email from Sky TV

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Dear Chris

    Thank you for your email about a Hi Definition channel being made available
    on the Sky Digital Platform.

    Sky has no plans at present to offer this type of channel. However, please
    be assured that your interest has been noted and passed to the relevant
    department for their information.

    Thanks again for your contacting Sky.

    Kind regards

    Margaret Tannock
    Viewer Relations

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Suppose if a whole bunch of like minded people emailed them... they might sit up and take notice
     
  5. Kramer

    Kramer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sky? I doubt it :D
     
  6. Jeff

    Jeff
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    5,489
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Basingstoke
    Ratings:
    +256
    Sky would do it if they thought it would make them money. Everyone should email them asking for this service.
     
  7. pdundas

    pdundas
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sky would consider if, and when, it is likely to be profitable. The main obstacles as I see it are:

    - The bandwidth just one HD channel would take up.
    - Them obtaining master sand rights for HD material
    - The infrastructure needed to broadcast such a channel
    - Development costs of a new Videoguard digibox supporting HD

    Frankly, until there is an installed base large enough to give a reasonable potential subsciption base for a premium HD channel I can't see it happening. Let's face it, although much of the material shown on channels such as Sky 1 is available in HD they've only just started supporting widescreen.

    The other possibility of course is that a hardware manufacturer gives them financial support for such a channel to kick start hardware sales.

    My gut feeling is that UK brodcasters will start to think about HD seriously (at the transmission end) about 2 years after HD-DVD is introduced, assuming HD-DVD sells.
     
  8. JohnWH

    JohnWH
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,826
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    St Albans
    Ratings:
    +82
    Use of AVC (H.264) would (probably) fix the BW issue, this also uses the same transport as MPEG2, so this could just be marketed as a premium service in the same way Sky+ was as it wouldn't effect the installed STB base.

    The main issue is, I guess, that the number of people prepared to pay for HD will be substantially less than those interrested in PVR like functionality...

    John.
     
  9. ROBERTT

    ROBERTT
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2003
    Messages:
    298
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +20
    Ive just bought a Pioneer plasma 434 and I am going to get rid of Sky+ completely. Although the PQ CAN be good on certain channels the vast majority are almost unwatchable at 43". Its only when you realise that the PQ by SKY is so crap that you resent paying £40 per month to watch it. Im going to re-align the dish to 19.2 and watch Euro1080. Yes I know theres nothing much worth watching but hey its the principle:mad: :mad:
     
  10. Ricardfred

    Ricardfred
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Messages:
    83
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    Good Idea. There is an increasing awareness of HD in the av press and these forums in the past few months. The more Sky knows that people are interested the better. After all HD may attract many more subscribers for Sky and I for one would be willing to pay extra for a HD service. I also sent them an email to 'viewerr@bskyb.com'
     
  11. Jackass

    Jackass
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    3,045
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Ratings:
    +593
    Yeap,

    Just mailed to that address.

    Hi-Def NOW! Hi-def NOW!
     
  12. Chris Muriel

    Chris Muriel
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    7,100
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +712
    Thursday, February 19, 2004
    On the Path to European HDTV

    Source: Inside Digital TV

    Inside Digital TV via NewsEdge Corporation : Vol. 7 No. 4
    By Steve Odom, IMS Research
    There has been a significant shift during the past nine months about HDTV in Europe. When IMS Research first began interviewing European broadcasters and consumer electronics manufacturers for the recently published study, "The Worldwide Market for High Definition Television," most manufacturers seemed quick to dismiss HD in Europe. There seemed to be a cultural pride in the superior resolution of Europe's PAL TV standard, compared with NTSC, and perhaps some lingering memory of the monies spent on the HD-MAC system in the late 1980s. The next logical step appeared to be moving from interlaced PAL to progressive-scan PAL.
    However, unlike countries such as the United States and Japan, whose governments helped push them to HD broadcasting, market forces are gathering that are beginning to "pull" Europe into HDTV. Three recent events highlight Europe's HDTV progress.
    First, Euro1080, Europe's first HD channel began satellite broadcasts in HD on Jan. 4, 2004. Four hours of daily HD content, such as concerts, sporting events and cultural events, are now available to any European with a 60cm satellite dish, an HD set-top box or PC tuner card, and an HD display. Major sporting events will be broadcast on a separate channel to sports clubs, pubs, and other public venues. Of note, several cable operators, including Noos in France and Telenet in Belgium, are conducting trials of Euro1080 over their systems. More cable companies are expected to follow.
    Second, Euro1080's launch coincides with the availability of DVB set-top boxes to decode both SD (MP@ML) and HD (MP@HL) for display use in retail stores and demonstration sites through at least one European distributor, Quali-TV.com. The boxes are manufactured by Taiwan-based Zinwell. Until now, retail stores showing off their flat-panel displays could not present true HD content. Upconverted content was on display. Euro1080 and Quali-TV officials both estimate that 2,000 - 3,000 of these boxes are now being used in retail stores, demonstration sites, and by a few very early adopters. According to Rob de Vogel, Vice President of Euro1080, at least eight other manufacturers are developing HD set-top boxes for the European market. Super Bowl
    Third, unrelated to Euro1080, the German broadcaster Premiere transmitted, via satellite, the recent Super Bowl in HD from the United States. Any 60cm satellite viewer in Europe with a PC HDTV tuner card could receive the broadcast. Sony had a special screening of this broadcast at its Berlin media showcase center, with close to one hundred viewers in attendance. Premiere is considering more events on a case-by-case basis.
    Besides, consumers naturally migrating towards the highest application of a technology, all players in the television value-chain seem to have a vested interest in seeing HD roll out in Europe. This vested interest in HD is evident in the investors and partners in Euro1080. Television manufacturers want to use HD to help sell more high-end large screen displays. Thomson and Pioneer have both made financial commitments to Euro1080. Both benefit from HD content being available to help show off their flat panel displays.
    Astra, the European satellite operator, provides Euro1080 with special transponder leasing rates. Astra, of course, is interested in HD because of the higher bandwidth requirements.
    Euro1080's sister company, Alfacam, is the largest independent producer of HD content in Europe, working on more than 1,200 projects a year, including the 2004 European football championship and the 2004 Athens Summer Olympics. Until Euro1080, that content was going to Japan and Australia for broadcasts. The common ownership of Euro1080 and Alfacam allows for special terms to be offered to broadcasters which are helping to facilitate more European HD content. According to Mr. de Vogel, "More than half, to three quarters of our content is based on what we call co-production with public broadcasters. That is ... we [with Alfacam] bring in the equipment to produce it in HD, the broadcaster pays us a price for SD, they get the SD signal and we get the HD (European transmit rights). That reduces the production costs for the HD portion."
    With HD set-top boxes available via retail, content available through Euro1080, and soon, HD-DVDs, the affordability of displays is the biggest gating factor. Competition and increased panel manufacturing capacity will help to significantly erode display pricing over the next five years. IMS Research forecasts plasma displays, for example, to fall in price an average of 32 per cent a year through 2008. A principle factor in this price erosion is the fierce competition between display types. Sharp, Samsung, and LG-Philips have made billion dollar investments on next generation LCD facilities. Matsu****a, Fujitsu-Hitachi, and Pioneer have spent billions on plasma facilities. All will put significant resources behind their chosen display type to drive volumes through these plants.
    Flat panels are certainly not the only viable alternative. Thomson's new 6.5 inch deep DLP-based rear-projection models provide a thin, potentially cheaper, alternative to both LCD and plasma displays. Intel's entry into LCoS manufacturing will help foster the development of yet another competing display type.
    Competition also is heating up between traditional consumer electronics companies and computer manufacturers, such as Gateway, Dell, and HP. Gateway sells more plasma televisions in the United States than any other manufacturer. If Dell's direct model is successful in selling televisions, margins throughout the value-chain could be pressured downward. Solid Foundation
    The combination of HD content and cheaper displays is beginning to provide a solid foundation for market growth. IMS Research forecasts the European market for HD displays to grow 220 per cent per year to reach 4.7 million displays sold in 2008, or about 15 per cent of worldwide shipments. Much of that growth will be concentrated in the later years as the price premium of HD over enhanced definition (ED) flat panel displays diminishes. Until then, much of the flat panel market in Europe will continue to be concentrated in ED, which is not too much different than Gateway's success in the United States being achieved by selling ED plasma displays to reach lower price points. As screen size increases, the higher resolution of HD becomes more apparent, but in screen sizes below 42 inches, the lower resolution of ED is less discernable to the average viewer. The latter point is important for the European market, where average screen sizes are smaller than in the United States.
    As the first-mover, Euro1080 will be an important company to watch. If the company is successful in gaining satellite subscribers and carriage on cable systems, other broadcasters will follow. The company already has been successful in developing industry partnerships and investors. Those positive signs signal growing support and interest for HD in Europe.
    Further information can be found in IMS Research's report: The Worldwide Market for High Definition Television, 2003 Edition. Contact Steve Odom, IMS Research, email: steve.odom@imsresearch-usa.com , Web site: http://www.imsresearch.com . [Copyright 2004 PBI Media, LLC. All rights reserved.] .end (paragraph)<<Inside Digital TV -- 02/18/04>>
    << Copyright ©2004 PBI Media, LLC. All rights reserved. >>

    Chris Muriel, Manchester
     
  13. Ricardfred

    Ricardfred
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Messages:
    83
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1

    Thanks Chris for posting this. Very interesting and positive.
     
  14. Leru

    Leru
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
  15. Ricardfred

    Ricardfred
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    Messages:
    83
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Ratings:
    +1
    In the new issue of Essential Home Cinema (issue 31) there is a very interesting article over 6 pages looking at whether todays British digital broadcasting will evolve into a High Definition future. There are some interesting comments from BSkyB along the lines that “HD is unlikely to be introduced in the near future. Pal has a higher base standard than NTSC and the UK replacement TV market already concentrates on widescreen TVs unlike the US so the introduction of HD would be less dramatic here than it was for the US”. They go on to say “We do monitor developments within the industry and will continue to do so, speaking directly to consumers, retailers and broadcasters to see if and when a true mass-market demand becomes visible”. In predicting the chances for dedicated HDTV in the UK, Panasonic UK states “ High definition is the next big thing on the horizon, but it is over the horizon as far as our market’s concerned” Overall I found it an interesting article and its good to see so much awareness of HD in the press over the past few months.
     
  16. Chris Muriel

    Chris Muriel
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    7,100
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +712
    In my work-related feeds today :

    Wednesday, March 3, 2004
    Strategy Analytics/ HDTV Will Reach 2.6 Million European Homes by 2008; Report Recommends Establishment of European HDTV Forum To Coordinate Indus
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Source: Business Wire

    Business Wire via NewsEdge Corporation : LONDON--(BUSINESS WIRE)--March 2, 2004--For Europeans, it's a case of 'second time lucky'. More than a decade after the first attempt to launch such a service, High Definition Television (HDTV) is once again appearing on the agenda of broadcasters and consumer electronics manufacturers across the continent. The report, "HDTV In Europe: This Time It's For Real," released by Strategy Analytics' Connected Home Devices service, describes how HDTV will eventually reach millions of European homes.
    According to the latest estimates from Strategy Analytics, Europeans bought 70,000 HDTV displays in 2003, and demand is growing rapidly as consumers buy the latest LCD and plasma flat panel displays. By 2008 the analysts predict that 17.4 million homes will have HD-capable TV sets; 2.6 million of these homes will have bought set-top boxes to receive HD broadcasts.

    Europe's first HDTV broadcaster, Euro1080, has just launched a satellite-based service offering a carousel of four hours of programming per day. Other broadcasters are known to be examining the opportunity, but have made no commitments as yet. In spite of this, Strategy Analytics believes that the beginning of mainstream HD programming in 2006 will drive a further wave of adoption.

    "Europeans are now watching their US rivals with some degree of envy," notes David Mercer, Principal Analyst at Strategy Analytics. "In spite of the difficulties the Americans have faced in launching HDTV, demand there is now growing steadily. Europe realizes it cannot afford to be left behind."

    This report identifies the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead for the European HDTV industry. It recommends that industry players such as manufacturers, programmers and broadcasters establish a European HDTV forum to coordinate standards and avoid unnecessary market fragmentation.

    About Strategy Analytics
    <snipped the PR stuff>

    Chris Muriel, Manchester
     
  17. Party Animal

    Party Animal
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2003
    Messages:
    241
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +13
  18. Jonny1973

    Jonny1973
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Are any of the plasmas available in the UK capable of showing 1080p without swashing it into a lower resolution???

    A lot of the cheaper plasmas are only capable of 852x480, hardly hi-definition.

    I think i'll hold off on the plasma until HD-DVD launches and there are devices capable of showing it off in all its glory.
     

Share This Page

Loading...