How do I get a 1080i pic on my 435 ?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs Forum' started by Radioactive__Man, Nov 8, 2004.

  1. Radioactive__Man

    Radioactive__Man
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    Could someone explain to a noob the best way to view a Highdef 1080i signal from my PC, to my 435 ?.

    I have my pc connected via PC input on front of media box [1280x768], and I have my HDMI DVD player connected through the HDMI input at rear of same. I am now also using the component inputs for my Xbox on the media box, so all inputs apart from scart and svideo are now populated.

    So in short will the PC input, display a 1080i image on the 435, or as I suspect will I have to utilise the component or HDMI input to see it in its full glory ?.

    If the latter, it would appear I will need to get another splitter box for HDMI or start utilising the switching component inputs on my AVR300.
     
  2. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Radioactive_Man

    If your looking to get a 1080i 'Video' signal into your R05 Media Box your correct in assuming your looking at either Component (Analogue) or HDMI (Digital).

    If you have the Option of outputting both 720P and 1080i from your PC's graphics card via DVI then you can have a play via the HDMI Input.

    We have Gefen HDMI and Zektor DVI (with HDCP) Digital Switchers in stock if your keen - or add a Lumagen VisionDVI video processor to the party and run all of your sources into the VisionDVI and on into the HDMI socket at 720P.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  3. Radioactive__Man

    Radioactive__Man
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    :(, just got my Extreme Ed copy of T2 today, and dont have a DVI-HDMI cable, wonder if using the highdef output cable [component] that came with my Radeon X800 will get me anywhere

    thx for reply
     
  4. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Radioactive__Man

    I don't have the T3 Disc - though I do have hundreds of DVI/HDMI cables; if your really keen you can drive over and collect one :)

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  5. bwlonsdale

    bwlonsdale
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    I just got my Pioneer 435XDE last night and have had a brief play with it. So far I'm very impressed with it.

    I utilised a DVI->HDMI cable which worked fine to give a 720P signal (1280x720). The quality was excellent (look - it's a giant 43" monitor !) and the latest NVIDIA drivers have some very good functions for HDTV sets. The 50Hz refresh rate worked best for me as opposed to the 60Hz as this produced a lottle of flickering which came/went apparently randomnly when watching a test DVD (Star Wars) but that could be the rather old GeForce 3 I was using.

    I have an ATI 9700pro I'm putting in the PC when I rebuild it shortly and I've seen similar functions for the ATI drivers so don't anticipate any trouble with those.

    I didn't specifically try 1080i due to lack of time but don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. I'm just very glad that the cable worked as no one seemed to know when I asked about this a couple weeks back. I'll try and give it a whirl at 1080i tonight and get back to you if you still need to know.

    I also had some test HDTV caps of Enteprise and Smallville and they looked very good as well. They were XVID caps at various resolutions - non-standard HDTV ones but scaled fine.
     
  6. rrc

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    bwlonsdale,

    I'd be very interested in the results of your tests. Am I right in saying that the HDMI interface is the only interface that accepts 720p and 1080i signals? Doesn't the D-SUB?

    Thanks,

    rrc
     
  7. bwlonsdale

    bwlonsdale
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    I initially used an S-Video input (which worked) and was very disappointed with the results from that compared to my old CRT. I then tried the D-SUB but the frequency must have been out of range for the display (defaulted to 85Hz most likely) so I hooked it up to a "proper" PC monitor and then updated the graphics driver.

    I then noticed it had lots of nice new resolutions to try like 1280x720p - so I stuck it onto that and then just used my DVI->HDMI cable (which worked first time I'm happy to say). It certainly cheered me up because the cable was £45 !! I was worried that the panel wouldn't accept the DVI signal because Pioneer's FAQ on their website says it won't work without a HDCP source (which is obviously ******** now).

    There was a different section of the drivers which allowed control over what it called "Flat Panel Displays" and one of the resolutions was definitely plain old 1024x768 along with 1920 x 1080i but given what the manual stated about "PC resolutions are out of correspondence" (or something similar) I thought I'd stick with one of the resolutions it stated would work OK.

    I certainly recommend a DVI->HDMI over the D-SUB simply due to aesthetics - I was pretty unhappy when I stuck the DSUB in the front of the box anyway! It just reinforces the XDE as a consumer TV device rather than a professional PC-use setup. It also emphasises Pioneer weren't really thinking about what they were doing but that's another matter...

    I'll give the other resolutions a try tonight and update this thread with what I could get working.
     
  8. MAW

    MAW
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    This is all pretty well documented. You will find the manual is correct all stated resolutions/refresh rates will work, no others will. Native res is impossible, most people run with 1280/720, which the screen is designed to do a good job with. A bit fuzzy round the icons, if I can say that in public, but tolerable for occasional use and dvd. Hopefully you were aware of this drawback before buying the screen.
     
  9. rrc

    rrc
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    "A bit fuzzy round the icons" - MAW

    Do you know if this is also true for the 505?

    rrc
     
  10. MAW

    MAW
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    Just the same, yes. The perils of non native resolution. Use the VGA port or buy a different plasma.
     
  11. rrc

    rrc
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    I am installing my new 505 in a few weeks and I would prefer to use the VGA port so that I can connect a 868 to the hdmi interface and not mess about switching the cables.

    I want to be able to run some WM9-HD demos/movies on the screen. Would I be able to get the HD signal through the VGA port? If so, should I expect any drop in quality?

    I am now a bit worried about getting fuzzy picture from HD material that is running on the pc.

    rrc.
     
  12. bwlonsdale

    bwlonsdale
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    MAW, I hadn't read the manual before I bought the plasma, but the options in the manual closely follow what I've been able to reproduce. There are some odd results from the tests I've done so have a read, you may be able to answer some of the things that came up. Pioneer have stated in their website FAQ that the HDMI input wouldn't work with a non-HDCP source, but it does, so I don't put all my faith in what a manual or a website says. You'd think Pioneer would know what their own product can do though and make it clear...

    DVI->HDMI cable.

    It accepted the following resolutions - 800x600, 1280x720p at either 50Hz or 60Hz. Whenever the signal was on 60Hz, there was a lot of flickering when watching DVDs (I only tested with PAL ones).

    It didn't like - 1024x768 and 1920x1080i. The first one I can live without as the manual doesn't state it will work with that. Allowing 800x600 though is rather odd as that's a PC resolution...I was a bit worried that it didn't accept the 1920x1080i signal but this is with a fairly old GeForce 3 card so I am rebuilding my HTPC sometime soon so I'll test further with my ATI 9700 Pro

    There are a lot of options within the NVIDIA driver for the flat panel display timings so it could be that some tweaking will get 1920x1080i working. ATI seem to have been playing with the HDTV game longer so they may work out the box at that res also.

    There is some overlay at work when using this cable and you get half a Start menu bar. What I noticed is that the signal that the panel is displaying is 750p and not 720p (When hitting the info display button on the remote). When the PC boots it shows the signal as being an 1125i signal (the card would be outputting a fairly res at this point). Where did these come from?? It says it supports 720p and 1080i but now it's showing something else!

    D-SUB->D-SUB
    800x600, 1024x768, 1280x720, 1280x768 (no option for 1920x1080i curiously)
    1024 x 768 produces an excellent output here and without any overlay to spoil things. You get the full Start menu bar. The screen also says it's displaying the correct format here - no 750p for example. Can't remember what it said now during the boot sequence but you do get too see the full screen so you could edit the BIOS for example.

    The text is not remotely fuzzy on 1024x768 - this is I believe what people are referring to as 1:1 pixel mapping for a PC display (correct me if I'm wrong). If you do display at 1024x768 then yes, Windows looks stretched but there are some simple options within the likes of PowerDVD to force it to ignore the aspect ratio - the DVD picture is then stretched to fill a 4:3 aspect and when it's displayed on the 16:9 aspect pixels it shows properly in widescreen - kinda anamorphic if you like. You can easily surf the web with it and stretched text doesn't make too much difference.

    There are some quality differences in using the DVI->HDMI over a D-SUB. In my opinion they aren't all in the favour of HDMI though. I watched the beginning of a few DVDs to check how they played. Star Wars was generally fine with a clean picture. The HDMI input though gave poor R2s blue highlights a dayglow effect. Watching Whalerider had areas of black that would show up with blue in them as well. Star Trek:Nemesis showed some smearing but no dayglow effect as did Whalerider (it has lots of blue at the beginning so I wanted to see if the dayglow effect would show up which it didn't). When things are moving more slowly, the picture is fine - colours generally look clean with little noise. The Windows desktop looked particularly crisp despite the scaling problems introduced by not showing at native resolution of the panel. The D-SUB's colours were slightly more subdued however there was no smearing or dayglow effects when watching the DVDs - and were generally speaking preferable.

    I have a standalone DVD player but haven't tested it yet - it's a rather old Wharfedale 750 with little to be said for it. Looks like I may be investing in a separate DVD player...

    So in answer to Radioactive Man's original question - I don't know! I will keep on experimenting though...
     
  13. MAW

    MAW
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    There's the answer, run it at XGA, native res, via the vga port. The odd numbers on the HDMI signal refer to hidden lines, our PAL for instance is 625 line TV, but actually has 576 active ones. 720=750 etc. simple innit? WM( hi def over VGA, well clearly it won't be native to the panel, so scaling happens somewhere. The PC will do this, and spit it out on VGA, but lord above knows if it can do anything about aspect ratio, I think not. the 50" is not actually true 16:9 in terms of pixel count, but of course physically it is, so a small amount of distortion is introduced. I told you it wasn't a PC tweakers dream didn't I?
     
  14. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Bwlonsdale

    On my way back from a day at Pioneer UK and one of the items discussed was NON HDCP sources into the HDMI port and some mis information given out (and in the FAQ by all accounts) – hopefully this will be updated very soon on the web site FAQ.

    Your finding are consistent with what has been discussed many times – though as you’ve spotted you do have to keep on prefacing every discussion with which Input your using; the HD15 (VGA) Input on the XDE Media Receiver is a PC Input and the HDMI Input is a Video Input.

    If your using your PC as a Video player then you have more signal option via HD15 than you do via HDMI – keep in mind too that no matter what Graphics card your using you don’t really want to play back R2 (50Hz) discs at 60Hz; the graphics card will be introducing problems before you ever get the signal near the PlasmaTV.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  15. mikeycrawford

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    I was never able to get 50Hz working through the VGA connector on a 504HDE and the 505HDE manual doesn't list 50Hz as one of the supported refresh rates either. Neither was native res (1280x768) @ 75Hz, so the VGA port was no good for watching PAL DVDs.

    I ended up using the HDMI connector with a resolution of 1216x686 and refresh rate of either 50 or 60Hz depending on what DVD region I'm watching. Very happy with the results and the cable was only a tenner
     
  16. Radioactive__Man

    Radioactive__Man
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    This thread has now become an irritation for me since figuring out the reason why I cant watch the HD 1080 from disc 2 on my T2 Extreme edition is due to license issues, and to date I have been unable to find a working US proxy server to get the license downloaded :(

    But on a more positive note, still a lot of interesting reading and pretty much the same results as I got when using the HD15 input from my X800XT.

    However after running the Jean Michel Jarre DVD and seeing how much fixed image shadowing was apparent [on the predominantly white background while viewing the "scary eyes"] from my daily few hours surfing the net I have since removed my PC from the Plasma setup for the time being.

    Needless to say a few hours of normal watching has totally removed the shadowing/burn in, but it don't half make your sphincter tighten.
     

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