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How do I create (seamless) chapters on a Panasonic HS2?

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by TP2K, Jun 17, 2004.

  1. TP2K

    TP2K
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    I have a concert recorded on my HS2... what I want to do is make each song within the concert a different chapter, and where possible, label each chapter so that on the menu screen the chapters are shown as song titles.

    Is this possible?

    If playing back the entire concert, I would like the machine to play seamlesly. But I would also like direct access to each track...

    So far I have only ever used the divide function to make different program episodes on DVD-R... and if I recall this creates a slight pause when moving from episode to episode.

    Can anyone help? Would creating a playlist be the thing I need to do? (Never done this before!)

    Thanks for any advice!
     
  2. troymcclure

    troymcclure
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    Me too. Anyone?
     
  3. kenfowler3966

    kenfowler3966
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    Its quite simple to do, divide up the recording into all the songs, and give each song a title. Then dub to a dvd all the tracks, selecting each one individually to create a dubbing list.

    This will create a dvd with a menu with seperate access to each song. Unfortunately you have to then select each song from the menu to play it and can't get a seamless play
     
  4. troymcclure

    troymcclure
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    Thanks ken,

    Do you mean that you can't use the forward and back skip buttons but have to go back to the menu to change track?
     
  5. Rasczak

    Rasczak
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    If you do exactly what Kenfowler suggests on a DVD-RAM disk then you can select each song or, if you play from the start, it will seemlessly play into the next recording.
     
  6. troymcclure

    troymcclure
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    O.K. I've tried that and it works quite well but as TP2K says, it does put in a 1 second pause. No problem for audience applause but not so good when a band merges songs together. Tried it both with "Seamless Play" set to On and Off - no difference - but I think this option applies to Play Lists only.

    So what about this Play List malarkey? Will it cause the same delay. I can try it but if anyone can save me the bother by letting me know if it's the same or worse I'd be grateful.

    troy
     
  7. TP2K

    TP2K
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    kenfowler3966 & Rasczak; are you saying that if I divide the program into several chapters (ie. as a playlist) then this will work seamlessly?

    I tried the dividing method and while "on paper" it did what I wanted in terms of chapters and song titles, it put pauses in between tracks when playing the entire concert.

    If I create a playlist with those "chapters", and burn it to DVD-R, should this work? Any experience of it?

    TIA!
     
  8. GoldFish

    GoldFish
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    hmmm. sounded like the problem on the Tosh recorder re editing/joining points.

    have a look at the thread [RDXS32 - Editing Chapter start and end] below.

    I now understand this is the limitaion with the Tosh.
     
  9. troymcclure

    troymcclure
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    I think I've tried all the options now (divide, 1 Play List, Play List per track) and all introduce the delay except one. The only way I could find to get a seamless dub with access to individual tracks was:-

    (this is on a DMR-E100)

    Set "DVD-R Rec for High Speed mode" option to "Yes" in Options before making the original recording.
    Set "markers" between songs.
    Dub in high-speed mode.

    Playback is seamless and you can skip from song to song (the markers become Chapters) but the whole show is only one Program. So only one thumbnail image on the initial menu. To have a thumbnail for each song means the Divide or Play List route which introduces the delay.

    Several problems with the above approach:-

    The concert I have was recorded with "DVD-R Rec for High Speed mode" option to "No".
    By setting "DVD-R Rec for High Speed mode" option to "Yes" you get Fixed bitrate instead of Variable bitrate.
    You can't change the recording quality for the dub.

    Without my machine or manual in front of me I hope I've used all the right terms above and at least some of it makes sense - unlike tha manual.


    troy
     
  10. apreading

    apreading
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    If you get desparate, I suppose you could rerecord it in 'DVD-R Rec for high speed' mode - either by linking the scart RGB out to the RGB in, or possibly by dubbing to DVD-RAM and then recording it back onto the hard disk.

    Not ideal, but if you recorded at max quality in the first instance then the reconversion shouldnt cost too much.

    Regarding the menu, I know that on an unfinalised DVD-R on my E85 I can call up the chapter view of a title. I have a suspicion that when you finalise it and it puts the standard menu on it that you may not have access to the chapter menu anymore though...
     
  11. troymcclure

    troymcclure
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    Been there, done that :)

    Tried it to RAM and back again but it didn't work. Either the high speed dub option wasn't available or when I selected it a message said the option wasn't available. Can't remember which it was.

    I assumed that the original recording utilised the variable bitrate option and once it was on the recording there was no getting rid of it.

    Or maybe I forgot to set the bitrate to Fixed, from Variable, when I copied to RAM. Something to try tonight.

    As for the quality I didn't know if HDD > RAM at XP followed by RAM > HDD also at XP involved a conversion or not. The quality certainly looked the same afterwards.

    That's another problem. The end result is different between RAM and DVD-R and different again between un-finalized and finalized.

    All very confusing. :confused:


    troy
     
  12. apreading

    apreading
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    I think you have not understood my point.

    The way I read it a 'fast dub' is a simple file copy - doesnt do any kind of conversion.

    What I was trying to suggest was playing the recording back on the DVD and recording what was being played onto the HDD. This means you would have the same control over the recording format as when you first recorded the program from the original source. Again, the way I read it is that this is effectively what 'low speed dub' does. However you might possibly need to plug the E85 output into another input socket in order to facilitate this - I dont think so but I have only had the box a short while so cant really say.

    The only 'problem' is that playback would convert the image back to video and recording would encode it afresh - this obviously degrades the image and is quite detrimental if you used a low bitrate to start with, but at maximum quality the degradation may be negligible.
     
  13. troymcclure

    troymcclure
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    I think I understood. I'm just not explaining myself very well as all these terms are new to me.

    Original recording was Sky+ to HDD at XP with "DVD-R Rec for High Speed mode" option to "No".
    Changed "DVD-R Rec for High Speed mode" option to "Yes".
    Dubbed from HDD to DVD-Ram at XP.
    Dubbed back from DVD-Ram to HDD at XP.
    Tried to dub from HDD to DVD-R at high speed but it wouldn't let me.

    That's what you meant isn't it?

    I think it failed because I neglected to change the VBR setting to Fixed. I assumed that setting "DVD-R Rec for High Speed mode" to "Yes" took care of this beacuse it gives you a warning message like "This option is "Fixed Rate" or something.

    Don't worry if I'm still misunderstanding. I'll get there eventually.


    troy
     
  14. apreading

    apreading
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    If you dubbed from HDD to DVD-RAM and back again at high speed mode, then I think all you did was a file copy - it is not a new recording and the "DVD-R Rec for High Speed mode" has had no effect, the file is as original.

    Either you need to dub back from DVD-RAM to HDD at low speed (hopefully this will create a 'new' recording which picks up the new DVD-R Rec Mode setting) or if this doesnt work you need to play the DVD-RAM disc back and record the output (which will definately create a brand new recording but might need the signal routed via a cable out of the box & back in again).
     
  15. troymcclure

    troymcclure
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    I DIDN'T dub from HDD to DVD-RAM at high speed mode. I did it in XP mode. The fact that I'd changed the "DVD-R Rec for High Speed mode" option to "Yes" is not relevant at this stage. This setting is for the eventual dub to DVD-R which didn't work.
     
  16. apreading

    apreading
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    No the setting refers to the way the recording is made - it has nothing to do with dubbing. The only question is whether you transfer to DVD-RAM and back created a 'new' recording or copied the original.

    Isnt XP mode just the bit rate? As opposed to SP, LP or EP? That doesnt have anything to do with whether it was high speed or not does it?

    (I could be wrong on the second point, but not on the first - of that I am (fairly) sure)
     
  17. troymcclure

    troymcclure
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    Aha! So the "DVD-R" in "DVD-R Rec for High Speed mode" means either "DVD-R OR DVD-RAM". I assumed it just refered to "DVD-R" as that's what it says.

    When you dub you don't get the options "high speed" or "low speed". You get XP, SP, LP, EP or "high speed". So by definition XP, SP, LP and EP must be "low speed". I chose XP for the dub from HDD to DVD-RAM, XP for the dub back to HDD and tried to chose high speed for the dub from HDD to DVD-R but it wasn't allowed.

    So I'd say it "copied the original" rather than "created a new recording" because it was XP to XP and this explains (I think) why it didn't work.
     
  18. apreading

    apreading
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    No, it really does refer to DVD-R. My interpretation is that DVD-Rs require the file to be in a slightly different format which doesnt allow for both 16:9 and 4:3 switching and possibly some other features. DVD-RAM allows either format that the recorder is cabable of, so can always be dubbed to in high speed mode. DVD-R can only be dubbed to in high speed mode if the original file is in a compatible format which it isnt if you recorded it without the setting on. Hope that makes sense...

    I think it sounds like you would be worth trying dubbing to SP either when writing to the DVD-RAM or when writing back again - this should hopefully mean a new recording is made which takes account of the new setting you made. If you can do that then you will then be able to write at high speed to the DVD-R and hopefully preserve your chapters...

    I think I need to do some playing tonight to understand this all a bit better too!
     
  19. troymcclure

    troymcclure
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    Me too! I think the SP method will work. Or, as I mentioned in a previous post when things were not as clear, I think there's an option to change from VBR to FBR which I have set to VBR. If I change this to FBR then the dub might need to re-encode rather than copy and I can keep things XP.
     
  20. Kevo

    Kevo
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    Think apreading has got it nailed.

    On my E100 i've dubbed from HDD to RAM in high speed mode with this setting on and off. With it set to ON I was unable to switch from 16:9 to letterbox in the original HDD recording or RAM copy which would indicate the omission of the ws flag.

    Incidentally I have never done any DVD-R recording on the unit.
    Once you start using a PC for this then the Pan E100 just doesn't compare/
     
  21. troymcclure

    troymcclure
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    This worked. :thumbsup:

    Tried this too and it also worked. :thumbsup:
    On the E100 the procedure was Functions/Setup/Picture/Hybrid VBR Resolution - Automatic > Fixed.


    I've compared the finalized DVD-R's and can see no difference between them. I assume both options should be worse than the original, the first due to the re-encoding from XP to SP, the second due to using a fixed bitrate rather than variable. But they both look and sound as good as the original to me.

    Shame about losing the thumbnails though where I could title each track but you can't have everything.

    Thanks a lot apreading.


    troy
     

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