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How close is 8" LC to 9" LC?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Vince M, May 15, 2005.

  1. Vince M

    Vince M
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    I have been asked this question quite a few times recently and feel I need to clarify something.
    9" WILL give the best picture..BUT..not everyone would be able to see the smidgen of difference apparent without a top setup/install/source/hidef material.

    Like high end audio,you can pay a heck of a premium for 9" over 8" LC -sometimes 3/4 times as much!

    Of course you pay this for a 3%-5% improvement.

    I am continually surprised how excellent 8" LC is ,only recently I saw a very well setup G90 just after I had had a NEC XG110LC..and believe me,they were a damn sight closer in pic quality than even I would have thought previously.

    *I have noticed the very same thing with a Marquee 8500LC and a Marquee 9500LC..

    This I feel is great news for those that DONT have the money right now for 9",they can in confidence buy 8" LC & know that even by spending a lot more there is not much more quality to gain.

    Years ago it was said that an 8" crt was for an 8ft screen ..a 9" for a 9ft..that was all..certainly though the ultimate resolvability(theoretical) and ultimate bandwidth may denote there is more latent ability with a 9"..the truth is,most mere mortals playing dvd would be pushed to see it..only with the very best hidef could you notice a slither of extra ability..this you have to look for mind you..

    I would defy most watching a "blind" shootout to even be able to pick the 8" LC from the 9".

    As an analogy,Imagine two Ferraris ..one has a top speed of 202mph..the other has a top speed of 206mph..yet seldom will you have the opportunity to go above 70mph..
    But of course the 206mph one is faster..and if you want the fastest :)

    So dont be dismayed if you see that 9" and cant afford it..dont be dismayed(..as a few I have spoken to seem to be..) if you think(incorrectly) that this is the only way to a top picture.

    Its not..8" LC will give you awesome//9" wiill give you awesome+(the plus you may never use or notice..)...................

    Now,IF we talk of the best value? thats as the dear old yanks say.."a no brainer"..
    At the moment for the quality on offer and the price of even a pristine,new tubed model,8" is the way to go..8"LC though more expensive..is also fantastic value..as an example,the XG 110LC I recently had -in terms of absolute picture quality was miles in front of ANY dlp upto 12k-and arguably as good-if not better than the ones above 12k.
    Yet even with 3 new tubes still cost only 25% of the aforementioned 12k. :smashin:

    A point I have made to a few guys that have mailed me-which I feel is key-is that the top 8" -and of course 9" are capable of 1080i native-this is in contrary to all but a couple of the most expensive dlp`s with panel resolutions of 1280 x 720.
    They are compatible with 1080i but of course downscale it..as they would 1080p -assuming they can accept in the first place..

    A strange old world when the "older" technology is more capable! :thumbsup:

    So I am thinking of the ideal way to show what a stonking bargain 8" LC is ..and what a supreme picture it can put up ,may be to match it in a shootout with one of the dlp big boys-seldom one has the opportunity to see this-and of course this is what most would like to see-and lets just say for argument sake its a draw(..it wont be :rolleyes: )..then IF an 8"LC is at least as good-and 50% of the cost-then surely thats the way to go for those unsure..one for the not too distant future methinks.. :smashin:

    ..But for now? Remember when you see that 9" crt showing that hidef.instead of thinking;-"Well its bound to look good ,it costs a bomb-is showing the best material etc.." that you may as well -near as dammit-be looking at 8"LC-and thats going to be 70% cheaper!

    Certainly the next 8" LC i have-I have already said to a few of the guys they are welcome to come and see..I dont have an esoteric system..i have an average setup..it wont be stacked in any way..it will be real world..but it will still be an awesome-and affordable pic..we all want to aspire up the ladder to the very best..but rung two from the top is within the reach of mere mortals!!
     
  2. Vince M

    Vince M
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    this is in contrary to all but a couple of the most expensive dlp`s with panel resolutions of 1280 x 720.


    ..What I meant to say here is that most dlps have a panel resolution of 1280 x 720..a couple of notable exceptions have a res.of 1920 x 1080.
     
  3. JimmytheSaint

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    The whole point is that hi-def is coming and irrespective of HDMI, alot of people would like to run as high a resolution as possible. Although most 9' can't perfectly resolve 1080P @ 60Hz, they do admirably well with 1080P @ 50Hz. Your 8' can't even get close, let alone 960P (I find the most ideal resolution to run dvds). So your analogy with the cars is just rubbish! If the difference was so minimal, no one would buy a 9'. Having owned both before, there is a huge difference (e.g light output, resolution, liquid coupled,mag astig controls etc), especially (as you quite rightly stated) with hidef material. Surely the fact that hidef is coming, makes the 9' the best, if not only option in the world of CRT projectors.

    Regards

    Yaz
     
  4. Godfather

    Godfather
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    Yaz when you you said 'huge difference' I guess you were comparing a non-LC 8" unit to your G90, whereas Projectiondream was specifically making comparisons between 8" LC and 9" LC units. Henry once told me most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the special liquid coupled 808 he built and a 9" projector on a small-ish screen. With 3 new tubes, even my bog standard 808s is happily running 960p @60Hz (and I can still see the scanlines). I'm going to see James' Marquee next Sunday so I'll find out for myself what the fuss is all about!
     
  5. Vince M

    Vince M
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  6. Vince M

    Vince M
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    I dissagree as well that 960p-as I feel the best res.for 8" is 768p-and thats based on a comparison of 960p and 768p on a Marquee 8500LC and a NEC XG 110LC.
    But of course its personal choice.


    ..Sorry just to clarify..for dvd ..
     
  7. Vince M

    Vince M
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    Godfather,
    Your bang on!..though I wouldnt call your 808swith three new tubes "bog standard!" :) :)

    ..Unfortunately,there is a lot of BS in the av world as there is in the hi-fi world,people swear there are massive differences going from one cable to another-from component to dvi-to sdi-to hdmi-there isnt,and ultimately with dvd -as I have said many times-we are trying to turn " a sows ear into a silk purse"...we are of course limited by the resolution of the source-whatever we do.
    Yes its fun to try and eke what little infinetismal benefits we can-thats the hobby,but whilst other countries have had HDTV and hidef sources for years we are still-at the moment -the poor relation whatever we do.. :confused:

    ..Soon this will change though thank goodness and we will get the improvement-and a sizeable improvement -where it counts-in the source.

    ..But with crt,for many years in the u.k.-people have had the choice of Barco,Barco and Barco predominantly..sellers have only touted Barco-and in some instances rubbished all else(then starting selling those they have rubbished further down the line.. :confused: ).

    The truth is Sony`s,NEC`s,Marquees are all crackers-Necs and Marquees are not so well known in the u.k.-I have always advocated these models-I have a preference in some respects for the Necs because the PG and XG models mostly have colour filtered lens as standard -I think-and I am not alone in this-that the XG LC range is the king of the 8"...very closely followed by the G70..The best NON LC model I think is the 992 Ultra..

    But Yaz..dont get me wrong,I love the G90-and If budget is for 9",then thats what i recommend..again I feel the Runco 1200(Cine 9) edges the G90...but man...its close..

    Unlike some, I have never-nor would I -rubbish the G90-just because I may not happen to be selling-nevertheless,the XG LC range was NECS answer to the 9"..they tried in essence to show off a little and outdo a 9" with an 8"..they damn nearly pulled it off because in 1999 for the Image quality award in the u.s. the NEC XG135LC beat the G90 for the top spot.

    The first-and only time,an 8" has EVER bested a 9".

    Now in my view,I dont make the XG LC as good as the G90..but like I said,its closer than I would have believed perviously.

    In fact,Ive said to a lot of the guys that a suitable upgrade path is 7" to 8"..8" to 8"LC..then 9"-IF a larger screen and all things are possible to eke that little extra out.

    Honestly ,Im not a strong advocate of putting colour filtered lenses on non LC models- for the cost involved IF it were me,I would straight upgrade to an LC that has colour filtered lenses as standard.
    ,,Though im not denying there is an improvement..but by the time you factor in the cost of the lenses/adapters/reset up etc..
     
  8. JimmytheSaint

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    Dude, I know you're not trashing the G90 or any other 9', but I've had a G70 (all but three months) and find the G90 considerably better. And it's not just resolution either...... I know it shouldn't really make a difference, but it does. The G90 seems sharper, brighter, better in every respect when displaying dvd's at 768P compared to the G70 doing exactly the same (Why?? I'm not sure really, as it's well within the capabilities of both PJ's)! Prior to this unit, I had an 808s and looking over your post, I see you refer to 8' LC's (i.e not 808s), but how many people on this forum have an 8' LC CRT??
    8' LC's (other than the G70, my primary comparison, which now resides with my best friend) are pretty rare in the UK IMHO and they ain't all that cheap either.
    I found 960P dvds on the G70 a little softer than I liked (even though you can just make out the scan lines), but it looks perfect on a 9'.
    Sure, everyone can display native res 1080i and many 720P, but the really awesome images come from true 1080i images made progressive (1080P) and with the future hidef film formats being in 1080i (some 720P), this is the only way to view them. Infact, I find 1080i unwatchable, because of the scan lines! I have not seen the NEC though.

    The car analogy of a difference of just 1%-2% :eek: is misleading, especially when 1080P and other hi-res materials enter the scene, which, they inevitably will.

    I'm not as qualified as you are in the world of CRTs for sure, but my eyes tell me that there is a very noticeable difference between 8' & 9' LC CRT's, even at lower resolutions. It maybe that because I'm running a 110' diagonal screen, it's more noticeable.

    Regards

    Yaz
     
  9. Vince M

    Vince M
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    You have said yourself you are not familiar with the NEC LC models..or I guess the Marquee LC models..my example of overall pic quality/difference was the NEC XG110LC and the G90.
    Being that I feel the 110LC has the overall beating of the G70 then the difference between what you noted once..and what I have noticed-frequently- may differ in % terms.
    Nevertheless,overall I hold to my broad view that 8"LC and 9" are far closer than some may realise..but agreed,the G90 is more in front of the G70..than it is the NEC.

    You are fortunate Yaz,you have arguably-the best -if not one of the best crt`s in the world..but there are many others out there that cannot afford this who also love Home Cinema and want the best for their budget.
    I wont sing an elitist song that the only way to picture heaven is a 9"-because thats wrong and not ONLY what ive seen.
    When I next have a NEC XG LC I would welcome you to come and have a look and see for yourself how close it is to what you know..you will be very surprised-as I was :smashin:
     
  10. crteaman

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    Jeez, quite another little (large?) thread about to kick off here,I need to put in a bit of time on my response to this................if you guy's want me to that is, its just a little late for a complete response, but tomorrow evening, well who knows? so are both of you guys coming to the event or what, what better time and place for a spirited debate on a topic such as this.

    more tomorrow.....if you want it, ( i love eights, but i love nine's even more)


    james.

    ps I think Vince is coming, come on Yas it would be great to meet you, you and I must be about the closet people on this forum with regards to the kit we have chosen and how we went about it..
     
  11. Vince M

    Vince M
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    Closet people on the forum? I think I may stop talking about 8 and 9" now... :eek: :eek:
     
  12. JimmytheSaint

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    Sorry for the delayed response guys!

    Vince, to be honest with you, I prefer 768P (or 720P) to 1080i and I'm sure if you did a side by side demo, most people would too. Because 1080i is interlaced, you get all of the problems associated with a 480i image (though with less gaps of course). Remember the huge increase in perceived smoothness and less jaggies when 480P first reared it's head?
    But I understand, horses for courses and all. I just disagree that watching 1080i (8' LC) is in anyway comparable to 1080P (9' LC). Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that 9' LC is the only way to go...... but for 1080P, it is. 1080P from a 1080i source has a smoothness, sharpness, colour and three dimensionality that the same 1080i source displayed natively, just doesn't have! Add to that, the fact you don't see scanlines! :eek:
    Vince, why do you think there is such an interest in scalers that can perform correct 3:2/2:2 on 1080i sources to make them 1080P? Obviously, having a PJ that can display this new format is more preferable than not and 1080P from 1080i is a hell of a lot better than 3-5%.
    Sure I'm lucky, but I've moved along the CRT chain like most of us after owning LCD PJ's, over the last 6 years having a 7' & 8' CRT and only bought the 9' when a deal became available. I purchased my 9' for little more than your similarly conditioned 8'LCs. All CRT prices have come down considerably.
    I think many of those who have asked you about 8' vs 9' LC CRT's have recently seen a demo of a 9' and have become a little 'underwhelmed' with their current CRT setup, but as you quite rightly pointed out, it is entirely dependant on what source, calibration, screen size etc they run, that can make their 8' look better than a poorly setup 9'. If you can't afford a 9' LC CRT then of course get the best you can afford, an 8' LC providing a stunning pic!

    Vince, it's just that blanket statements announcing 9' LC's as a couple of % better than 8' LC's can be misleading and inaccurate (and vice-versa of course :) ). I remember you saying something equally misleading (IMHO) on the scaler forum, comparing an Iscan HD with a Crystalio/Lumagen HDP. You asked whether the twice the price could be justified over the Iscan. You obviously hadn't tried PAL (fairly important being in the UK) or video and compared, otherwise you wouldn't even ask that question? Surely, at the end of the day it's all subjective, no?
    Obtaining the best PQ is what's important for most of us (especially us die-hard CRTers) and equipment that can perform these functions 'correctly' to our eyes makes it worthwhile whatever the price! :smashin:

    James, I'd love to come, but believe the meet is in Norfolk, is that right? Not sure how long it would take from London (or even how to get to Norfolk), but I'll try and make it. Vince , you ought to come down as well. I'll bring some beer and hopefully dispell that comment about 'the closet'! :D

    Regards

    Yaz :)
     
  13. Vince M

    Vince M
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    Hi Yaz,
    I cant say I dissagree with anything you have said..of course 1080p on a 9" is better than 1080i on an 8" LC..I assume you talk of hidef sources?
    The scaler thing is the same scenario though-lets be honest here,us enthusiasts have always paid heavy in the pocket for the slightest improvement-does the improvement gained equate similarly to the wad of cash we part with? seldom..we both know that..some may see it as making us pay through the nose for our hobby-others will site economy of scale..others will say ;-"we dont care what we pay if we get any improvement"

    For me that has always been the fun-and I guess for a lot of other folk as well..I must admit sometimes though to looking at that empty pocket and thinking..have i bought into the BS..this is quickly over-ridden by my convincing myself that its worth it! :thumbsup:

    But we all know about the "Law of diminishing returns" in this game-but certainly the truth of the matter with 9" is that were so much of a premium over 8"-mainly for the higher production costs on the larger tubes.
    So i think its fair to say that the cost of 9" over 8" in % terms DIDNT equate to the equivalent benefit of performance.

    Now what you have at the moment is a scenario where for example..a cracking (s/h)8" LC can be had for 3k..a cracking(s/h) 9" will cost maybe 2.5/3 times that.

    So I think for someone that wants a stonking picture NOW..8"LC is an awesome bargain-and im sure you will agree that the pic of 9" is not 3 times better than that of 8"LC :smashin:

    The improvement is minimal-certainly at below 1080p.

    Now what is the true improvement of 9"..thats a topic that will continue to do the rounds for many moons..
    If your ready to part with your cash,IF you are prepared to fulfill all of the other parameters in seeing that difference..i.e. hidef..then my stated % is irrelevant..because your at the top rung of the ladder-and as an enthusiast-like you-have paid your dues to get there..as I have.

    ..But honestly..if you had seen that NEC XG110LC -that could quite capably do 1080p..and then seen the G90,you would have seen what i meant..closer than they should be taking into consideration the price difference..
    For me at that point I really thought it didnt equate.

    Because based on what I saw..in real terms..if the NEC was 3k..then the G90 should have been 3.5k..mad aint it?

    I think whats happened now is that the price of 8" is now a better buy than the few 9" crt`s that are coming to the market..for now there is a disparity-and thats a good thing for the consumer!! :D :D

    But Yaz..you dont know what a huge fan of the G90 I am..money no object if we are talking 9"...G90 or Runco DTV 1200(Cine 9)..for sure.. :smashin: :smashin:
     
  14. JimmytheSaint

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    Vince, I agree with all you've said!! :thumbsup:
    I didn't realise a good 8' LC with good tubes would only set you back 3K. If indeed the NEC can perform to G90 standards, then it truely is a bargain. Perhaps I would have bought two and stacked them! ;) I have heard though, that they are a right b**ch to set up and parts aren't as readily available as the Marquees, Barcos & Sonys etc. I have had zero experience with them, so can't comment.
    I would like to point out to all that on a recent trip to the States, I was able to demo a Sony Qualia. The picture with native HD was astounding! Really! With dvds it looked pretty disappointing, however and black levels weren't all that either, but damn, they're getting better all of the time!

    Regards

    Yaz :)
     
  15. Vince M

    Vince M
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    Yaz,
    I saw the Qualia about a year ago..very nice..had to laugh though on the launch of the Qualia when the Sony chairman announcing it as the replacement of the just discontinued G90 said:_"That in three product releases of Qualia he saw it as maybe being close to the quality of the G90"...HAHAHAAHH..Thats progress for you!!
    Where in Middx are you? i`ll pop round one day..
    Rgds,
    Vince
     
  16. JimmytheSaint

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    I'm near Twickenham Rugby ground! I take it your in Ashford, Middx? By all means pop round, just PM me to arrange a day/time.

    Cheers

    Yaz :)
     
  17. Vince M

    Vince M
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    GOOD LORD YAZ!!!..I grew up in Twickenham..lived in Gothic Road..up past Twickenham green ..went to Trafalgar school!!!...wow..small world.. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
     
  18. marcoeser

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    very interesting thread, and very timely, im actually thinking right now on an offer i've had for a Barco 1209s (almost new, only 400 hrs on chassis). The screen will be 110", so i dont think an 8" will do, but as you point out, the cost of the 1209s is 2.5-3 times what the 8" will be, so is it all worth it, do i really want such a big screen, do i need the 9", so many questions, but ill probably get the 1209s and ignore the money i spend, and just be happy that i have one of the best crt in the world.
    Anyway, thanks for a very helpful/interesting thread.
    marc
     
  19. 008

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    James Marqee is sharper, brighter and has better colours than my low hour G70 on standard DVD and Dtheater
     
  20. Welwynnick

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    Sorry we didn't you at James' do on Sunday, Vince. His Marquee is a sight for sore eyes - all the good things and none of the bad things about video - everything you had lead me to believe. Even the wife agreed.

    I'm interested in this 8" vs 9" thing because of the arrival of HD. A 9" is probably not worth the (considerable) extra for 720p or upscaled DVD, which looks great on a good 8".

    But would it be fair to say that 9" would hold the advantage with 1080? Or (Lee) do you think it's better with DVD as well?

    Nick
     
  21. Vince M

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    ALRIGHT CHAPS!!
    The thing to remember is that James` Marquee has been tweaked lovingly over quite a few days to perfection,I dont think it would be a fair battle to pit a "normal" 9" against it!! :smashin:
    ..and of course with great cables/source/material etc..
    It is to show whats possible -not necessarily probable..

    I Dont know who setup your G70 Lee-i.e.could there be more to squeeze out of it perchance?,though i would assume the Marquee would look better of course..

    Nick,at the end of the day I guess it comes down to budget,,9" is better..but then its 3 times-ish more expensive.

    It would be interesting to see what Yaz thought as he has a G90..how do you think the Marquee compares?
     
  22. 008

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    Im not comparing apples to apples with James system as he uses a different scaler and DVD player. I use a Panny with SDI mod through a Holograph 2 HTPC so good kit.
    From what I saw the difference is noticeable on standard DVD say 9/10 ie 10% difference compared to the Marquee and with high def on my G70 ranking at 8
    Ofcourse James is a master at setting up as Vince says so its impossible to get a direct a/b
     
  23. Vince M

    Vince M
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    Its a tough one Lee,If James has nicked only another 2% out of the Marquee (..which I know he has..)then that puts it 5% in front of an equivalently well setup 8"LC..If your seeing 10% improvement-then possibly theres another 3-5% to come out of the Sony..Its so difficult to quantify..

    Like you say..without an A/B comparison using same criteria of setup for both 8"LC and 9"LC its real difficult to quantify a difference.

    I tried to do so,merely due to having seen numerous examples recently of different 8/9" LC..well set up ..quickly set up ..having a familiarity with the models etc.

    ..But its real difficult for me to quantify-though ive had a stab! :smashin:

    ..Probably the easiest way to put it,is that I would be personally happy with an 8"LC for my ultimate or a 9"LC IF the premium over the 8" was sensible.
     
  24. crteaman

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    Don't forget guy's I have owned, repaired re-bulit and Installed most of the stuff out there, I am probably quite fortunate to have Installed new units of nearly everything out there (never all of course) this allows me to measure most things on an even keel, new against new, and of course not having to allow for different installers :smashin:

    Sometimes I wonder if top level kit really has to be justified, at the end of the day if we want it bad enough we just go for it, for example lee, am I correct in thinking thats an M3 you have? now cosidering a 330 will still do 155mph with a better ride quality and better mpg, does the M3 really represent great value over the 330? the answer is once you have driven both 'you betcha'! but if you added up the numbers it would'nt be viable.

    It is a totally different drive eh? yet if you just scrutinised the performance figures,330 does 155 and gets there in 6.5 secs whilst the M3 gets there in 5.2 secs yet costs over 20% more?

    The figures only tell so much and as they say the proof of the pudding is in the eating, we all know which we would choose!

    So it is with the eight vs nine inch debate, is it better you bet, is it worth the extra? only you can decide, all of these boy's toy's are crazy money, how can we really justify our hobbies, thing is we only live once and it aint a dress rehearsal. ;)

    james
     
  25. 008

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    Well said James, thats exactly the point.
    PS That does actually make the M3 20% quicker according to my math so perhaps good vaue for money after all :rotfl:
     
  26. Vince M

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    :thumbsup: Synopsis;-

    8"LC and 9"LC are closer than they deserve considering the premium attached to 9" .
    On a cost basis it doesnt equate,BECAUSE 8" is a heck of a bargain-which makes 9" look a little overpriced..Its not of course,still a huge bargain when you consider what they originally cost! :thumbsup:

    But if you want a 9" of course go for it,im certainly not saying otherwise! :smashin:

    At the end of the day.most of us are the same in here inasmuch as we would probably pay 100% more for 3% improvement-BECAUSE its our hobby,,and so what?..If it makes us happy..if it makes sense to us,however shaky our own internal argument we`ll justify the purchase..
    ..Been doing that for years!! ask the missus!! :thumbsup:
     
  27. crteaman

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    Hi Lee,

    Good man I like your maths, and I can sense your glass is alway's half full rather than half empty, thats my kind of thinking.

    Again another comparison would be a Rolex to a Seiko, the former probably more than ten times the cost,does it tell the time better? I think not.
    The prisident of Rolex was once asked, "what's it like to have been in the watch business for so many years"? His reply, my dear I'm not in the watch business I'm in the jewellery business!

    Pride of ownership etc If you want one, and can afford it, why try and justify it?
    In an attempt to put a few demons to bed, I shall attempt to give my opinion's on 7"/8"/9" units whilst beIing as honest as I can (as I always try to be).
    The difference between most 7" units and an 8" unit I would place at 15-20% on a like for like basis eg cine 7 against a cine 8, or their derivatives.

    The actual cost difference would be around 30% plus (full blown 7 not lt for this example)also there would be gains in convergence stability as well, colours would be similar but 15-20% gains in sharpness, image depth and light output.

    For those wanting a real world example and proof of this then Godfather is your man as he has done this (or thereabouts) both units brand new tubes, on the same screen, and I set them both up.
    In my opinion, the 9" units do not alway's gain so much as folk think as far as light output is concerned (but they are brighter) more so gains of resolution/sharpness and image depth, with depth being one of the biggest advantages, I would place the improvement of a 9" over an 8" at 15%.

    For those of you who think thats a small amount, it is'nt at this level, but some may want to justify it, again it may be interesting to see if Godfather would interject his opinions on what he saw at the event, light leakage into the room not withstanding.
    Vince is quite correct in his opinions on the 8" units, compared to the lower price/performance of the 7" and greater cost of the 9" "THE 8" UNITS ARE THE BARGAIN OF THE CRT WORLD"

    james
     
  28. Vince M

    Vince M
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    Just to add..I think these gains "seeable" with Hi-def..Im not so sure with something like dvd..I think once something is good enough to show all thats in the source its good enough..and 8" is more than good enough for showing 480 lines in their entirety!
    Now with a 9" running at 1080p for example..this is where the extra "engine power" of the 9" comes into play..it is able to make more of the source inasmuch as showing at its best and in its entirety.


    Its a tough subject to tackle though,and I think us all quite brave in trying to quantify..certainly a Cine 9 compared to an 808 could be 15% better..a Marquee 9500LC compared to an 8500LC?..less of course..

    The % of HOW much better 9" is over 8" is something we may never all agree on-as the truth may well be that the % varies from person to person..If that 5%..or 10% improvement is noted,then that can be EVERYTHING to you.

    James is bang on about increased depth etc..there is an almost holographic quality to a top 9".. :smashin:
     
  29. Vince M

    Vince M
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    Heres my take on % gains..this is assuming same setup,,same condition of tubes..same source..I have only included 8`s and 9".

    *100% being the perfect pic.(o.k. nothings perfect..but for the benefit of this please humour me.. :)

    I hasten to add though.that this is MY OPINION and not meant to be a definitive comparison..just a bit of fun.

    (1)Cine 9-100%(Bold,punchy,great sense of depth,great light output,sharp,great colours.)

    (2) Marquee 9501LC-98.5%(As per Cine 9..though not quite so well.)


    (3) Sony G90-97.5%(Only behind the Marquee because sense of depth not so great..otherwise a very punchy ..technocolour type of picture..not quite as sharp as the Cine 9.)

    (4) NEC XG135LC-94.8%(better colours)/Cine 8(LC)-94.8%(sharper)

    (5) Marquee 8501LC(+Red "c" element)-93.7%(Similar pic to 9500)

    (6) Sony G70-93.6%(Very filmic pic,lovely blacks and colours.)

    (7) Marquee 8500LC-93.5%(Great pic..reds veer towards orange)

    (8) Barco 808s Graphics(Nice and sharp,great light output..does everything real well-needs colour filtering-standard on 992`s for example.)-92.7%

    (7) Barco 808s(not colour filtered)-90.5%
     
  30. Godfather

    Godfather
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    It's true, from a new Cine 7 to a retubed 808 I noticed a 15-20% improvement in light output, sharpness, shadow detail and depth. I should point out that I also made two other significant upgrades at the same time: SDI modding my DVD player and adding a Crystalio, so a few % of the difference should be attributed to the source and scaler. As for my 808 compared with James' Marquee, both running the same resolutions (960p for NTSC DVD, 864p for PAL, 1050p for DVHS), to be honest I couldn't confidently tell the difference with DVD. Sharpness and light output looked similar, and I found it hard to make a direct comparison of depth and shadow detail when there's any light leakage into the room. With DVHS the difference was more obvious, with A Knight's Tale DVHS looking noticeably sharper on James' setup, I would say around the 10% mark. 1050p is on the high side of what a 808 likes, whereas the Marquee 9500 really lapped it up.
     

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