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how can they allow this murderer to live?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by oxygenuk, Aug 17, 2005.

  1. oxygenuk

    oxygenuk
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  2. Miyazaki

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    If they killed him, IMHO they are as bad as he is.
     
  3. oxygenuk

    oxygenuk
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    i dont think so because that type of human being is a disgrace to our race imo.

    whoever puts disgrace to our human race shouldnt be allowed to live
     
  4. Miyazaki

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    What he did was horrific, I agree. But there is never any excuse for taking another person's life.

    IMO if the state were to kill someone for killing, that is pretty ironic, and it somewhat diminishes us all.
     
  5. shahedz

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    i agree with Games Guru, i would never feel comfortbale with having the decision to decide if someone should die or not. regardless of what they did, let them rot in jail and live with what they have done for the rest of thier sorry lives.
     
  6. Miyazaki

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    Exactly. Executing someone is the easy way out. It is also something you expect countries like North Korea, Saudi Arabia and other barbaric backwaters to do. Not the developed, and supposedly, enlightened world.
     
  7. smelly

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    Oh God, I suppose we've done politics and religion recently so a thread on hanging was due sooner or later! It'll be speeding next :rolleyes:

    Seriously though I'm with Games Guru on this one as well. No matter how terrible the crime I can't see how you can justify taking a life. You're effectively saying its wrong to kill, but we're going to kill you for doing it. How does that work?? :confused:
     
  8. Steve.EX

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    I pretty much agree here too, i am not sure what, if any, answer there is to this but i surely do not feel that I have any "right" to determine anothers existance or lack thereof. In my world i doubt very much if his execution would hold any real comfort for those he has affected. I have often wondered if the death sentence appeases the "generic" masses rather than the affected victims per se'. Much like smacking children i am not at all convinced it offers any form of deterent to the individual.
     
  9. Steve T

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    I'll have to weigh in on the "string him up" side of the fence. If there's absolutely no doubt of his guilt and the crime is as horrific as this one is, then get rid of him. However, as there's no dealth penalty in that State, then it's 175 years...of incarceration at the tax payers expense.

    I think the point is, it's wrong to stalk, abuse, torture then kill innocent people (families, young children!!) If you do this, then your own life will be forfeit.

    All that said, I do not think people should get their hands chopped off for stealing, or am I advocating the death penalty being reinstated in this country. Hiowever, for these, the worst possible crimes against children, it should be. I don't think living in an "enlightened" world means that we should tolerate this excuse for humanity.

    As for saying that his executioners would be "as bad as he is"!! IMHO, what absolute garbage. To make a comparison between some carrying out the judgement of a court of law, and a sick, twisted torturer and murderer of children.....well, for the sake of my continued membership....I'll say no more.
     
  10. smelly

    smelly
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    Whilst I agree with you on it not being a deterrant (and on being against it anyway) I do think that it offers something for those affected and thats why so many people are still for it. Whether that can be described as real comfort or not is debatable but revenge is a very strong and powerful emotion.
     
  11. Steve.EX

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    It is quite understandable that which you say....................however.
    If the death sentence serves no purpose in deterent etc then it serves no purpose whatsoever imho. If it will not stop a person who, through sickness or premeditation etc, wishes to commit these sort of crimes, then the crimes wont stop until the person is caught regardless. In these instances does not the death sentence only really serve a Court's direction rather than the greater good - our greater good.
    A pretty eutopic outlook i realise but i am not sure how much we achieve by frying people until their brains boil.
     
  12. Steve.EX

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    Agreed, but i am myself damn sure that (to me) there is no real solice whatsoever to the loss of a child.
     
  13. Ethics Gradient

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    In earlier threads we have already argued that its costs the tax payers more execute someone than it does to keep them in prison for life.

    Nothing can be done to bring back those people whos lives he brutally destroyed, it serves no purpose other than that of revenge to take his life.
     
  14. Steve T

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    For these people it's not supposed to be a deterrent. I don't think there is ANY deterrent that will work against the sort of person that commits this type of crime. It is only the punishment for it that can be determined.

    I can only try to put myself in the place of the victims families (impossible, and hopefully something nobody here ever experiences) and work out how what form of justice I would be satisfied with.

    If not the death penalty, I would support his incarceration into the general prison populace. If these criminals are just "normal murderers" not worthy of special treatment (such as execution), then why are child abusers and killers generally separated from the normal prison environment. We all KNOW why, but I think this would be a good way to settle things. The end result would likely be the same albeit it a bit more painful; but the champions of human life would not have to compromise their ideals.


    Just a thought.
     
  15. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    Is this not passing the same sentence but "delegating" the "throwing of the switch" to someone else.

    I have often read of individuals and families who, faced with this situation, have spoken of feelings of being "cheated" and "the easy way out" by the execution of an individual who's actions directly affected them.
    For many people i am sure there is need the to believe that there is, through punishment, the possibly of repentance and acknowledgement of the crimes they have commited.
     
  16. Steve T

    Steve T
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    It is effectively the same sentence, but without actually sentencing anyone to death.

    Why should they be given special treatment? Presumably because their crime is "special" in terms of it being abhorrent to all, even hardened criminals. I dont think someone capable of continually committing this sort of crime over such a long period is capable of repentance. To be honest, I don't think he deserves the opportunity to repent either.
     
  17. The Dude

    The Dude
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    To my mind (and obviously it's impossible to put yourself in their shoes) the only motivation I personally would see for asking the death penalty is 'guaranteed' punishment...

    bring back real criminal punishment, make the criminal feel they are being punished by being kept alive in prison..... 16hrs hard labour, sleeping on a stone floor in an unlit cell, no visitors ever, absolutely minimal human contact...survival rations only....

    that to me is fitting punishment for such a crime - loss of life, without the 'merciful death' part....
     
  18. Garrett

    Garrett
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    Whets more the guy must not have been right in the head when he committed the crimes.
     
  19. Steve.EX

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    Again, this i can appreciate, but it is perhaps the victims need to believe, how ever foreign this might seem to us, rather than any service offered to the perpetrator.
    I can only speak of that which i have read.

    My own feelings on this is that in many conversations where an off-the-cuff "shoot the b******ds" has been thrown in (which does not include your post i hasten to add) I have often thought that:
    a) It hasn't involved much of a thought process to reach this conclusion, and
    b) This could be seen as brushing the issue under a (terminal) carpet.

    Regards

    Steven
     
  20. Solomon Grundy

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    I am all in favour of the death penalty for severe crimes or at least a very, very painful PUNISHMENT followed by life imprisonment with daily beatings, brandings and torture. These are rotten, sub-human creatures...I think that severe and excrutiating revenge should be allowed if the victim of the crime (or if they are dead, their family) wishes it, hell I would let them unleash their vengeance upon the criminal in question. Does this bring me down to their level? I don't care!

    That's all I have to say about that...

    Didn't England play badly last night!
     
  21. richjthorpe

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    Tie him up, gag him, leave him for a few days then let the parents/relatives of those who were killed pick a weapon of choice.

    Then imprison him.

    ...or is too harsh ?
     
  22. Steve T

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    Steve.EX. I appreciate and take on board your comments and it's refreshing to have a debate on such a potentially combustible subject without resulting to abuse (although I got a bit close earlier! :oops: )

    I just fail to understand what use it would be to society or to the victims families to let this monster live. If someone murders for profit or in a crime of passion, then harsh imprisonment would indeed punish them by robbing them of their freedom and life choices which presumably was the motive for murder in the first place.

    With creatures like this guy....I dont see the point. Study him while he's on death row by all means to help in catching future animals.

    How about imposing the death penalty for this type of crime unless the victim's family appeals, and has it commuted to life imprisonment? Then the families wishes would be considered - the guy would not be executed if the bereaved family didn't think it right.
     
  23. inzaman

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    None.

    At least he is facing 175 years (hopefully no parole) in this country he'd be out in 20 :rolleyes:
     
  24. Gary D

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    Thats very shocking.

    i've just written and deleted a huge post about this but i was becoming the monster i was actully condoning the torture and humiliation of him. but at the same time i dont favour killing him.

    for one of he first times i my life i dont have a definate opinion.

    i wish i knew what to say.


    Gary
     
  25. Steve.EX

    Steve.EX
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    I too am as aware of the points that you have made as any parent might be but...............
    Just suppose in 5 years time it should transpire that this sort of behaviour is linked to a geneal fingerprint or crosswired chromozones or some such thing.

    I am in NO way a defendant of anyone who would commit such crimes but if in time it should transpire that these are actions of a quantifiable "error in someones coding" then i don't think it is appropriate to brandish all cases as "acts of pure evil" in the purest sense.
    Through history madness has often been perceived and dealt with as "evil" through a lack of subject understanding.

    Also if a person has commited a hienous crime, whatever the reason, that crime has already happened/been commited, there is no undoing this. Is not how we deal with it the true reflection of ourselves, which is (and imho should be) in no way related to the crime or type of crime itself on a simple eye for eye basis.

    Regards

    Steven
     
  26. stealther

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    Let the Victims family decide.

    Yes its revenge, Yes revenge is a sin, Yes I would want it and Yes I would make sure I got it, and damn the consequences and ANYONE who stood in my way. :mad:
    Also If I was a victim I would hope my family would extract revenge. :mad:

    Killing is to good for this thing. life in jail (oooh I bet that scares him what a suitable punishment :rolleyes: )

    I ve been told that 2/3 of our population are in favour of execution good thing that the other 'enlightened' 1/3 ignore democracy and decide what’s best for us simpletons who believe in an eye for an eye :mad: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :suicide:


    Going to give my self a timeout whilst I carm down I think :(
     
  27. Steve.EX

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    I guess what i am trying to say is that i very much doubt that, if offered, i would ever pull the "gallows lever". I am not all-knowing and mine is not the hand of justice and i don't honestly believe i would feel any better for it.

    Each to their own i guess, save the whales that's what i say! :)

    Steven
     
  28. Gary D

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    I know a guy (a BIG guy) who got caught drug running in Tennessee - he said it was the hardest three years of his life. even now he still wakes up screaming about the things that were done to fellow inmates (both by guards and prisoners. )

    After his stories i doubt that any US Prison is easy and i for one wouldn't want to spend one night inside.


    Gary
     
  29. Steve.EX

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    An interesting point but where does this stop?
    If the death sentence were a democratically passed thing then do the crimes to which this is passed upon also become democratically sourced?
    Who are you and i to consider this? Would an ever increasing list of punishable crimes be a good thing? Would it not in its attempt for a more eutopian society actually desensitise the masses to what actually must be a pretty horrific experience for anyone involved in frying/neck stretching etc etc?
     
  30. The Dude

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    Steve.Ex, that is a very good point!

    How much of a difference is there between the axe-man and the axe-murderer?
    certainly not enough for me to ever be the one wielding the axe, whoever's head is on the block...

    Im all for chain-gangs and rock-breaking instead....just as long as it's somebody else's job to be the 'walkin-boss'.... :rolleyes:
     

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