How Best to Use Flexible Recording?

[Kevosull]

Hi All,

I have a question I hope someone could help with....

If I knew a film was to run on Sky for 2hrs 45mins, what is the best way to get a copy of the film onto dvd ?

1) I could record SP to HDD and after partial erase and dividing I am still left with > 2hrs which I then advanced copy with FR mode to dvd (real time)

or

2) I record FR to the HDD for the length of the film (auto compresses to fit on a DVD), and after slicing and dicing, am left with a film that only takes 75%-80% of the DVD size, thus over compressing the original recording, but copies high-speed.

I would appreciate some views on what would be the best method, especially if there are more recognized ways to achieve it.

Thanks in advance for all and any help,

Kev

Update

Just noticed http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=506028, but would like a little insight into setting FR at the right time (==> HDD or ==> DVD) and what length of time to set for (anticipating size after slicing and dicing).

Thanks

Kev

 

[aekostas]

On my Panny EH50 SP does not mean you then encode in real time; if the flag is set, it will dub at high speed. The only reason why it won't is if you don't have enough space on the target disk. I would not use FR for something that is longer than 2hrs initially but will then be chopped to something that fits on a disk for the reasons you are mentioning.

 

[Mike999]

I would always try to avoid re-encoding anything, especially a film that you'd want to keep for 'posterity'. You mention slicing and dicing the film so I assume you're not talking about a film from the Sky movies channels - since there are no adverts. Those are easy - just use FR for the length of the film then high speed copy to DVD. If the film, less advert time, comes to 2 hours or less, I record in SP, then edit, then copy. If the film less advert breaks is > 2 hours, then to avoid re-encoding I use option 2) below - i.e. record in FR, then end up with a slightly over-compressed film. I think it's still better than re-encoding..
Hope this helps..

 

[Kevosull]

I would always try to avoid re-encoding anything, especially a film that you'd want to keep for 'posterity'.

Sure, obviously the most desirable outcome.

just use FR for the length of the film then high speed copy to DVD. If the film, less advert time, comes to 2 hours or less, I record in SP, then edit, then copy. If the film less advert breaks is > 2 hours, then to avoid re-encoding I use option 2) below - i.e. record in FR, then end up with a slightly over-compressed film. I think it's still better than re-encoding..

Does this mean you have to guess the length of the recording less advert breaks before you start recording?

So, recording initially in FR mode, but transferring @ high speed does not result in re-encoding, whereas recording in SP, but having to FR copy to DVD ('cos film still >2 hrs) will get re-encoded?

Hope this helps..

It sure is getting me where I want to be...

tks for your help so far,

Kev

 

[Kevosull]

On my Panny EH50 SP does not mean you then encode in real time; if the flag is set, it will dub at high speed. The only reason why it won't is if you don't have enough space on the target disk. I would not use FR for something that is longer than 2hrs initially but will then be chopped to something that fits on a disk for the reasons you are mentioning.

The difficulty comes when trying to determine what length of program would be left after editing has completed, allowing you to set the appropriate recording mode up front.

 

[Gavtech]

There are a variety of tricks you can use to make something fit... bit too complicated for me to go into at this time of night ... but one thing you can do is look up films on the web and see how long they are .. It can be a guide.

I know there is some degree of variability in cut lengths but it can offer some guidance.

Another point that is useful to know is that in high speed mode, in practice you will find that you can usually get about 2 hours 8 minutes ... and there are very few films longer than that.

 

[Mike999]

Does this mean you have to guess the length of the recording less advert breaks before you start recording?

Not guess, no, it's not difficult to find out. IMDB shows run times, and with some channels such as ITV1, Ch4 the ad breaks are very predictable in frequency and length.

So, recording initially in FR mode, but transferring @ high speed does not result in re-encoding, whereas recording in SP, but having to FR copy to DVD ('cos film still >2 hrs) will get re-encoded?

Correct. When you record in FR and high speed copy, it's a copy - no re-encoding. When you record in SP, then copy in FR, it has to re-encode at a different compression ratio. Thats my understanding. Gavtech is the oracle, I'm sure he'll put me right if I'm wrong here!

 

[Kevosull]

Mike999,

Thanks for that and the pointer to IMDB.

Another question if I may be so bold....

If the program you are recording is from Sky, and the DVDR is set to Ext Link, can you actually set FR as the record mode?

I can't seem to see where this option would be when using Ext Link.

Regard and thanks,

Kev

 

[Gavtech]

Mike999,

Thanks for that and the pointer to IMDB.

Another question if I may be so bold....

If the program you are recording is from Sky, and the DVDR is set to Ext Link, can you actually set FR as the record mode?

I can't seem to see where this option would be when using Ext Link.

Regard and thanks,

Kev

FR is specifically disallowed when recording via Ext Link.

The reason for this is simple enough: In order to encode in FR, the machine has to know the length of time the recording will be before it starts - so that it can make the necessary compression rate calculations.

With timer recordings - this is a given in the timer settings.... and with manual recordings a prerequisite of using FR mode is that you have to input a recording length into it to make it possible.

With external link , the time length is unknowable - because control is handed over to an external device which determines the recording length.
The DVDR has no way of knowing what that will be.

 

[PhilipL]

Hi

If the program you are recording is from Sky, and the DVDR is set to Ext Link, can you actually set FR as the record mode?

You have found a drawback of the Panasonic's FR system, where it is always tied to a time span, which makes it fairly inflexible in my view.

Pioneer has the better flexible recording system with 32 user selectable quality settings, as well as an FR mode if you need it. If you know a film will last x amount of time, you choose that setting out of the 32, it will carry on recording until you stop it though, not at a DVD full, then when you trim off the padding and ads you get left with something that will fit on a DVD with no waste.

If you are going to use the re-encode option on the Panasonic, always record in the XP mode to lessen the effects on picture quality when you re-encode.

Regards

Phil

 

[Steve N]

FR is specifically disallowed when recording via Ext Link.

The reason for this is simple enough: In order to encode in FR, the machine has to know the length of time the recording will be before it starts - so that it can make the necessary compression rate calculations.
.

I wondered if anyone was going to point this out.

Kevosull 1) I could record SP to HDD and after partial erase and dividing I am still left with > 2hrs which I then advanced copy with FR mode to dvd (real time)

This (1; above) is the only way to do it.
If, after the ads etc have been removed, you have 2 hrs or less then you can do a high speed dub in SP. If it is longer than 2 hrs then you will get the best copy by dubbing in FR.

I am currently doing this with Memoirs of a Geisha for the missus. FR means I'm having to dub in real time. which is a real pain in the wotsit.

If the highest quality recording isn't essential, then do your original recording to the HHD in LP. You can the burn to disc in LP. This way you can still use high speed dub. In fact it will be a lot faster than SP to SP high speed dub.
I do this with all the kids stuff and you can usually get two movies on a disc this way.

PS If, after editing out all the ads etc, the movie is only slightly longer than 2 hrs, say a minute or two. Then it is still worth trying to dub in high speed. I've found it will work sometimes .

 

[bowler]

I have read elsewhere in these forums that you could set a flexible recording time of around 2 hours 30 minutes on a Panasonic recorder and still get SP quality.

Give it a try.

 

[Gavtech]

I have read elsewhere in these forums that you could set a flexible recording time of around 2 hours 30 minutes on a Panasonic recorder and still get SP quality.

Give it a try.

The whole point of flexible mode is that it is continuously variable and optimised to be best possible for the time .

You don't get SP mode at 2 Hours 30 minutes.... You get '2 hours 30 minutes' mode.

 

[Kevosull]

Thanks everyone, for all the help.

Kev