How about stamping out stamp duty

Discussion in 'Politics & The Economy' started by karkus30, Aug 6, 2013.

  1. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Surely no one can object to getting rid of a double tax on ordinary people and those who are struggling to buy their first house or need to move in order to reduce costs, cope with a growing family or find employment ?

    Can I urge you to sign up and email your local MP ?

    http://stampoutstampduty.org

    Quick and easy to do.
     
  2. la gran siete

    la gran siete
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    much as i dislike the tax, revenues must be collected so I wont be signing any more than I will sign for a reduction in fuel duty
     
  3. McPhee

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    ^What he said.

    Stamp Duty raised £4bn last year. I'd rather see it stay - we need the money.

    The only campaign I'd be willing to back it one adjusting Stamp Duty by region (based on average house prices). It seems a little unfair that a first time buyer in certain parts of the UK can snap up a house for under £125k, paying no Stamp Duty, while one in London could be stumping up in excess of £250k with an additional 3% bill.
     
  4. karkus30

    karkus30
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    No, it didn't raise anything. Instead the money was stolen from the home purchasers who have already paid due tax on their income anyway. They could have used that money to buy goods and services, do repairs, start a business, employ someone in their business, put the kids through university, give to a charity, save for old age to be independent, save for a rainy day instead of burdening the welfare system, get private health. All things that would have increased everyone's wealth.

    It is unfair that anyone pays it. That house prices are higher in the South than the North is simply supply and demand. There is more work in the South and wages are higher. Land is rationed.
     
  5. mitchec1

    mitchec1
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    While I tend to ignore the standard here's a breakdown of last year's stamp duty payments for London

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...tamp-duty-with-18bn-contribution-8748298.html
     
  6. mitchec1

    mitchec1
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    Just compared where I grew up Hull to where I live now London borough of Bexley. Now Bexley isn't anything special just an outer London borough but still shows that they do need to look at this even if it's making regional variations.

    Hull

    3083 families paid £828,078 with 24 paying 3%

    Bexley

    2950 families paid £11,095,363 with 823 paying 3%

    Something really needs to be down to help first time buyers
     
  7. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Increased interest rates, an end to stamp duty and an opening up of planning regulation. Houses need to be less attractive as assets and more attractive as homes.

    You have the choice of living in Hull by the way. Not sure if you have ever been to Hull, but if you did you would realise why houses are cheap.
     
  8. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    To be fair though ... Hull :devil:
     
  9. sidicks

    sidicks
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    Signed!!

    The most unfair thing about stamp duty (other than the fact that it exists in the first place) is the way that rates increase on the whole amount not just on the excess about the threshold, as is the case for income tax.

    This creates highly artificial price ceilings and encourages 'creative negotiation' around these arbitrary points.

    Your main home should be exempt from stamp duty - it is just another way that social mobility is constrained - instead it should be applied to buy-to-let properties only.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2013
  10. pragmatic

    pragmatic
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    Is it illegal to avoid stamp duty buy buying a portion of a house?

    I may be mistaken but if you sell/buy say a large number of shares that put you over the stamp duty threshold then you'll pay it, but you could split that transaction in two.
     
  11. sidicks

    sidicks
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    Not that easy, I'm afraid!
     
  12. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    Agree with this - have never understood why it has these big jumps - why not make it progressive? 0% on the first 250K, then 1% on the next 250K or whatever.

    Not sure about binning it - not sure what it gets the tax-payer as a net - where is the difference made up?
     
  13. sidicks

    sidicks
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    People have more money to spend on other things which attract VAT etc!

    People have more to invest (which helps the wider economy) and which attracts tax!
     
  14. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    HM Revenue & Customs: SDLT on a shared ownership property
     
  15. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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    So the taxpayer gets 100% of 50K stamp duty, or 20% VAT on 50K spent?
     
  16. sidicks

    sidicks
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    This only applies to 'official' shares ownership schemes (where you only ever own a proportion of the house) - I think Gaz was suggesting an approach were you buy the whole house, but in stages, each of which is below the stamp duty threshold?!
    ;)
     
  17. sidicks

    sidicks
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    That's the immediate direct impact, but that spending gives others more money to spend which attracts VAT etc etc etc and higher growth leads to higher tax takes in a number of areas.
     
  18. imightbewrong

    imightbewrong
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  19. sidicks

    sidicks
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  20. McPhee

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    I'm not following you here. How does removing Stamp Duty fit in to this picture of fixing the UK housing market? And why now? If the rest isn't in place, abolishing Stamp Duty isn't going to help very much.
     
  21. tapzilla2k

    tapzilla2k
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    Or perhaps the stamp duty collected should be used to help build new housing (be it social or private housing) to help deal with the chronic housing shortage in the UK. Thus reducing the cost somewhat to first time buyers and reducing the rents private landlords can charge which means you might see the housing benefit bill reduced and cheaper rents for those who work but don't require benefits etc. If you take away the stamp duty entirely, all you will do is give people a bigger budget with which to a buy a house with or see even more housing snapped up by private landlords thus increasing rents.

    And the final nail in the coffin is this - Politicians would more than likely increase the rate of VAT over time to make up for the shortfall from stamp duty being axed or they'd find another tax to recoup the money from.
     
  22. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Perhaps it might be easier to ask how stamp duty is helping the situation ?

    Making houses more expensive than they need to be can't be a way of helping people afford a house can it ?
     
  23. sidicks

    sidicks
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    Retaining stamp duty for buy to let properties would help to address the issue with greedy private landlords!
     
  24. karkus30

    karkus30
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    They will always try and take tax somewhere. That's why it needs constant resistance to roll back the size of the state.
     
  25. SNIPIT

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    Not having enough Houses in first place cant be helping, the effect of no stamp would make it easier for a period for some, then the demand would again soon outstrip the supply, more houses simple fix.
     
  26. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Simple fix ?

    Who will build them ? who is going to buy them ? Where will they be built ?

    Stamp duty is a just another tax, it penalises people for needing a basic necessity of shelter.
     
  27. Bl4ckGryph0n

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    Yes I like that. Zero on the home you are living in. An increased percentage on the business properties and as it I'd s business, business rates as well please for the owner and normal rated for the occupier.

    Ps. Yes it was a shock to me that the stamp duty isn't progressive in the uk. I remember buying our first home here, the one I have now. Gosh I was lucky I had quite a bit spare cash put away as silly me didn't do my due diligence and didn't realise it was over the whole amount. Oops.
     
  28. SNIPIT

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    It is important to note that exclusions from the increased charge have been introduced for corporate trustees purchasing property in their capacity as trustees of a settlement, and for property developers.:eek:
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2013
  29. tapzilla2k

    tapzilla2k
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    It would appear the Tories have no intention of tackling the greed of private landlords. The housing benefit bill's cost is partly down to the stranglehold private landlords have on the housing market. It means councils have very little choice in where to house people.

    That's just the nature of the Treasury and the civil service. If you want to keep the state in check you have to tackle the dinosaur that is the Civil Service or at least those in charge of it. Politicians don't run the country, the civil servants do. See Yes Minister and Yes Prime Minister.

    The answer is simple, putting into practise is complex.

    There is a construction industry waiting to build new housing, that's one way of boosting Economic Growth. Who said all the houses that need to be built have to be bought by people. Social Housing stock is depleted and needs rebuilding. And in fact not all have to be new builds. A lot of housing can be refurbished to bring them back into use. Indeed Liverpool City Council has sold off some of it's empty housing stock for a £1 in exchange for those buying the house to refurbish it and then not sell it for a number of years. Which I assume is to make it easier for first time buyers to get the housing and not property developers or private landlords.


    Blame the Romans. They near enough invented tax in the modern sense.
     
  30. karkus30

    karkus30
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    Call it Government/state/civil service its all the same.

    Cant agree with housing stock replenishment by a make work programme. All that does is shift spending about at tax payers expense. Let tax payers keep the money and determine how they wish to spend it.

    I blame anyone that supports taxation :)
     

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