House refurb advice

Discussion in 'Networking & NAS' started by toynlet, Apr 1, 2016.

  1. toynlet

    toynlet
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    I'm Hoping everyone here can provide a bit of advice on home AV cabling / networking and everything that goes with it to a total novice!! I originally posted this in the home cinema building forum but think it will be better suited here (plus i've had the time to look through this forum and figure some stuff out!)

    We’ve just bought a 1930’s detached house that is need of full refurbishment and modernisation (full re-wire included). We’re hoping to build a single storey extension for a kitchen diner / family room and generally bring the place into the 21st century!

    I’ve never refurbished a property and while I’m thinking about the layout at the moment it seems a good idea to get a sense of the infrastructure of how the house will be connected. Can anyone point out certain things I should bear in mind whilst in the planning stages? I don’t want to get to the decorating stage and wish I’d put in a network point in one walls!

    So my basic ideas I have in my head are as follows (please bear in mind I'm a total novice!):

    · A node 0 zero location somewhere in the house.
    Where am I able to position this? Pretty sure there is no internet connection at the moment, I'm in a contract with BT and have found them to be quite good so will continue with their infinity fibre package. Am I able to tell BT where to position the main phone point for entry to the house or can I run a connection from any point into my node 0 location from a specific BT point?

    Do I need to install a network switch of somekind if I'm running off the standard BT home hub. Obviously there are a maximum number of LAN connections on the back and i'm looking to increase the network usage around the home.

    I've read alot about running HDMI video over CAT6 on here, whilst this isn't in my scope at the moment it may be something I could be interested in. I'm not sure the best way to terminate the CAT6. I've read that patching plates at node 0 and CAT6 wall plates aren't recommended due to voltage issues (could be wrong here!) so what is the best method of termination?

    · Lounge with wall mounted TV. I will also have somewhere located in this room the following:

    AV receiver, Nvidia Shield TV, coaxial aerial and option for Sky in the future, PS4, Subwoofer placed somewhere out of reach of little hands! I'm thinking of adding around 4 double sockets to be safe and around 6 CAT6 points, do you think this is sufficient?

    Also looking to have 5 satellite speakers positioned around the room.

    · Kitchen Diner / Family room extension to have the following:

    Wall mounted TV with maybe the possibility of another Nvidia shield TV (so thinking 4 CAT 6 points), coaxial aerial and an option for Sky in the future.

    · In each of the 3 bedrooms I’m not too worried about a complicated setup but think it would be useful for 2 network points in each of the rooms.

    Think we are budgeting around 50k to complete everything. The wife will stress that everything above is not a priority when it comes to cost but think it’s important to plan in before building starts.

    As she is not that interested in talking about CAT6 cable, chasing speaker wire and the amount of sockets we need, I thought I’d come here to ask for help and advice!

    So, anyone who can point out even the most obvious points, essentials needed, ways to complete things and their experience, I will be greatly appreciative!

    Thanks for reading!!
     
  2. walker26

    walker26
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    Just done a house refurb myself that included gutting it and doing a full re-wire. I'll list what I did but obviously your own requirements may differ.

    Something I really wanted to do was have a server cupboard on the landing where all my networking and entertainment feeds could be housed, this is roughly in the middle of the house to give me good wireless coverage through out and keeps all my cable runs under 12 meters.

    I had the phone line disconnected from the house as it came in where an extension was going, there's normally a charge for this but BT said that as the line hadn't been used for some time they could remove it free of charge as redundant equipment. BT can be a bit of a pain to get to agree over the phone to do what you want but the engineers are normally quite helpful once on site, my engineer fitted a new cable to the nearest pole bought it into the house where I wanted and then routed it halfway across the house to my server cupboard where he fitted my master socket. It's best to plug your router directly into the master socket so try and get it located where you want it.

    I used cat6 through out, 2 points in each bedroom, 8 points behind tv in the living room and 4 points in kitchen (2 low down behind AV cabinet and 2 up high for wall mounted tv. This all feeds back to the server cupboard to connect to a 24 port switch (Netgear JGS524) and my Sky Hub. I also have a Qnap NAS which I need to upgrade which will be used for storing music and films. I've tried to make it so each device that requires an Internet connection has its own feed so I don't have to use a switch other than the one in the cupboard.

    My aerial comes into the cupboard as well as 8 feeds from the Sky dish, since I started this project Sky have released Sky Q which I intend to get so I've since added another couple of satellite feeds. Each bedroom has 2 tv points, 4 in the lounge and 4 in the kitchen (2 low, 2 high), these all obviously feed back to the cupboard and I will use a patch lead type system to connect the feeds that I need for each room. I've also put 2 twin HDMI sockets in the kitchen, 1 low and 1 high connected to each other behind the plaster so I can connect the Sky box and Blu Ray player to the wall mounted tv without visible cables. Also a double socket high up for wall mounted tv.

    Don't run network or tv cables parallel to power cables as this could cause interference in the signal. Putting too sharp a bend in those cables could also cause problems so avoid that.

    I've not yet decided how to wire the speakers in the lounge, a bit of thought still needed there.

    I've put sockets with USB charging ports next to bedside tables and a few other convenient places and bedside lights can be switched on and off using a wall plate switch by the bed and by the bedroom door

    Something else I've installed is an Honeywell Evohome heating control system. This controls my radiators and hot water using a touch screen programmer/controller and wireless radiator TRV's and allows every room to be its own zone or to group rooms together into a zone. I've got an App on my phone which can be used to control the system via wifi or 3G. It's not cheap to buy but it seems to be paying for itself in fuel savings, might take 4 or 5 years though.

    Hopefully you might find something of use in what I've posted.​
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2016
  3. toynlet

    toynlet
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    Walker26.......Thankyou so much for this. This is a great help and seems like you have something very similar to what I had in mind.

    Would you mind clearing up a few points?

    What is a patch lead type system? Is it essentially a patch panel? This is what I had in mind in regards to connecting the switch to all the network points but what I've read on various threads around here, there seems to be people who use them and people that recommend against them.

    So you've got your Sky feeds terminating into your server cupboard on the landing. How do you plan to distribute this around your house? Is this something that you are looking for Sky Q to handle? Have a Q Hub somewhere (the sever cupboard?) then mini's in each of the rooms? I must say this sounds alot easier than trying to send a HDMI signal around the house over CAT6!

    Can I ask why you are having 2 low and 2 high TV points in the lounge and kitchen?

    Finally, CAT6 or CAT5e? I've heard that CAT5e is easier to work with and essentially it will achieve everything I'm looking for. Is there a reason you opted for CAT6?

    Thnakyou!!!
     
  4. walker26

    walker26
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    What I called a patch lead type system was regarding how I will connect the aerial and satellite dish to the rest of the house. Feeds from dish and aerial come into the cupboard and terminate to F connector wall plates (8 satellite, 2 more for Sky Q and 1 aerial). I then have 14 F connector wall plates for the different rooms (4 lounge, 4 kitchen and 2 for each of the 3 bedrooms). I can then use short leads (patch leads) to connect the feeds I want to the rooms I want. I have done this as there are more sockets in rooms than there are feeds, so it allows me to change what is available in each room really easily.

    Example - I might decide my daughter can have the Sky HD box in her bedroom so I just go to the cupboard and move the short cable from the lounge socket to bedroom 2 socket.

    There was a lot more benefit to doing it this way before Sky launched Sky Q and I decided to put in an extra couple of cables. Sky Q requires 2 cables and has a different type of LNB on the dish, when I get it I will have one dish with normal octo LNB for Freesat and a second dish with new LNB for Sky Q. I will probably have Sky Q in the lounge and a mini in the kitchen, the rest of the house will probably only have Freesat.

    The purpose of 2 high and 2 low TV points in the kitchen is because the Sky/Freesat box will be in AV unit (low) but the TV is wall mounted and has built in dual Freesat and Freeview tuners that would require its own TV point (high). This just allows me to record 2 things on Sky while watching something live through the TV's Freesat.

    Cat 5e should be capable of Gigabit speeds if wired properly but Cat6 just adds an element of future proofing for not much more money and as I will be streaming Full HD and possibly 4K films it gives me peace of mind that it is capable. Yes, Cat 5e is supposed to be easier to work with but I ran a couple of Cat6 cables at my last house and had no difficulties or problems. Just make sure you use Cat6 wall plates, connectors and patch leads. Don't untwist the wire pairs any more than necessary. Avoid sharp bends in cable. I will be using a patch panel to connect my switch to the network as I see that as being easier than putting a connector on each cable. I've not used a patch panel before but I don't see why it would cause any problems as they are used all the time in businesses that have large networks.

    I would post some photos but the house is still a project in progress and the server cupboard has had to take a back seat and is just a mess of cables at the moment.

    I hope that makes sense and this helps but feel free to ask anything.
     
  5. toynlet

    toynlet
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    This is great to know.
    Looked more into Sky Q and although it seems pricey, think it's a fairly stress free way setup.

    Thanks for replying!
     
  6. Haz87

    Haz87
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    Problem with sky q is if the main box packs in none of gour mini devices will work. A family member of mine got the trial and it still had software issues when it was being launched back in feb.
     
  7. mickevh

    mickevh
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    Received wisdom has it that the reason for not running power and data parallel is not because the 50Hz power sine wave will interfere with the 125,000,000Hz ethernet pulse rate to any great degree, but because you can get "transformer coupling" from power to data inducing high voltages and currents on the the data cables, which (probably) won't be good for the equipment and certainly not good for any people touching the wires. ISTR there's some rule of thumb about keep parallel runs less than a foot or so. (That said, I've seen plenty of instances to the contrary.) Point being, it's about electrical safety rather than "interference." However, I'm not a spark, so don't take this as authoritative statement.

    The "cat6 harder to work with" thing is about the fact that cat6 installation requirements are much more stringent than cat5e rather than being about the cable itself being more mechanically troublesome (though cat6 is a bit stiffer as it has a physical "divider" inside that cat5 does not.) For example, cat6 has to be "laid" in and not "pulled" - you have to be paranoid about "nicking" the sheathing and a whole host of other things. Scare yourself silly about cat6 stringency here... Installation Pitfalls in Cat6 Cabling | Automated Home

    And of course, rarely do any DIY'er test their installs with the rather expensive devices needed to "certify" that the works are up to snuff. But 10/100/1000 ethernet is pretty forgiving and you have to so a spectacularly bad job for it to not work. Bad termination is usually the biggest problem.
     

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