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Homenetwork crossover cable faster than router?

Discussion in 'Networking & NAS' started by RockySpieler, Oct 10, 2005.

  1. RockySpieler

    RockySpieler
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    Hi all, I have a couple of questions regarding networking 2 PC's:-

    I have 2 PC's (XP Home - SP2, IPv6) which I connected to my 4 port router via ethernet cable. This seemed to work fine, I could get the internet on both, and transfer files. Internet connect speeds good, BitT and Emule worked well on both PC's.

    However when I tried to transfer large files between the PC is was incredibly slow, 2hrs for 13.5GB. I was so frustrated I even re-installed on one machine, no benefit.

    If I just used a CrossOver etherent cable between the 2 PC's, connect is fine approx 100Mb (13.5GB about 18mins). As I only have one on-board network 100/10 port on each PC, I have had to share my internet connection which is connected to the host PC by USB. Whilst trouble shooting I tried a different Router, and borrowed a 100/10 PCI ethernet card.

    1) Should I expect my router to run at 100Mb between PC's, or is CrossOver & Sharing the internet the only solution (means Host PC has to be on, for Slave to use internet), has anyone else come up with this issue?


    POSSIBLE FUTURE NETWORK QUESTION:-

    2) Gigabit cat5 ethernet:- if I brought 2 PCI gigabit 1000/100/10 cards (only £12), and used the CrossOver cable between them, AND went back to my normal ethernet connection to my Router. Would I have 1000Mb file transfers between PC's, and independant internet connection on 100/10 network?

    (I appreciate 1000/100/10 Routers are available, but given that my existing 100/10 router seemingly cannot transfer at 100Mb, I would prefer to try the CrossOver Gigabit method first)
     
  2. Kramer

    Kramer
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    Transferring through a router shouldn't be noticeably slower than direct connection through a crossover cable.

    I regularly run 85/90% on large transfers through a Netgear router (7/80Mb/s).

    :smoke:
     
  3. The Dude

    The Dude
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    I'd say it's likely that one of your patch cables is dodgy...

    have you tried different patch cables using the router?
    also, it's worth manually setting the network connection speed and duplexing on your network cards..

    set both PCs to 100mb full duplex, and see if performance is any better when using the router. :)
     
  4. Jim_Fear

    Jim_Fear
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    Are you using gigabit lan? If not then no wonder why its taking so long...

    100Mb = 12.5MB a sec, 13.5*1024 \ 12.5 = 1105.92 Seconds or 18.5 minutes on 100Mb

    That however is only theoretical, you will never get 100% performance and will probably only ever utilize a small percentage of your network speed, most likely more realistically 10% which will on average take 10 times as long, so roughly 3 hours. You have to take into consideration packet loss, network overhead, framimg, compression etc, you can do some fiddling but will never get true speeds. Even with a Gigabit network you'll never be able to utilise the 128MB a second trasnfer because the PCI bus simply could not cope with that much data, you'd more get more performance if you use an imbedded solution that connects directly to the hypertransport bus of Athlon 64's and such but you'll never reach the speeds toted on the box unless you have some expensive kit.

    Can I just ask why you're using IPv6 though?

    And for those reading this, I hope you know the difference between Megabit and Megabyte :smashin:
     
  5. The Dude

    The Dude
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    Whether or not you're using gigabit LAN ( which you stated you aren't, I know) doesn't explain why an 18 mins transfer using a crossover cable takes 2 hours using the router..

    65-70% is as good as you can expect from a network, but with around 10% throughput you've got a serious problem somewhere... unless of course you've actually got a 10Mb connection running at maximum throughput.. ;)

    What make/model is your router rockyspieler? :)
     
  6. Jim_Fear

    Jim_Fear
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    65-70%? You'd be lucky to see that on a home system without some rather tasty hardware.

    You could have optimise your computer for network throughput but you'll notice more CPU usage. Check the attached picture, go to properties of your NIC in Device Manager and optimise for throughput. That'll give you a little boost in performance.
     

    Attached Files:

  7. The Dude

    The Dude
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    maybe you should read the OP more closely Jim.. ;)
     
  8. Jim_Fear

    Jim_Fear
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    Explain "dude" ;)
     
  9. The Dude

    The Dude
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    It's all in there mate... 18 mins for the transfer if using direct crossover connection between the PCs (near 100% throughput), 2 hours if using the router... (10% throughput)?

    RockySpieler was asking was if this is normal router behaviour... and it most definitely isnt... unless of course it's only networking at 10Mb instead of 100Mb like he gets with the direct connection.... :)

    Unless I've read it all wrong, but I don't think i have?
     
  10. Jim_Fear

    Jim_Fear
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    :oops:

    Not paying attention again :devil:

    Right, after another read of the situation there are a few things to find out, how far away is the router he's using? What make and model router is he using? Type of cable?

    The reason why the corssover is quicker is because its not having to be dealt with by the router, and like I sort of said you need to have some decent equipment to get full network utilisation. If you using one of these £50 Linksys ones they're chucking in a bog standard switch into the mix. I used to own a pretty large 24 port Cisco Catalyst 2900 managed switch and that gave me alot better performance than using the current piece-of-crap living in my linksys router. Same it was so large and so noisy :(
     
  11. RockySpieler

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    Thanks for the interest..... :clap: .....I was starting to get worried

    1) I have tried 2 different Cat5 cables (copper - thin grey "insulation" looks like telephone cable) between router and PC, each about 3m long, with no effect. Bog standard "borrowed" from work!

    2) The 100/10 router is a 4 Port freebie from by ISP (e7even), I think it is a Dlink I will have to check model number when I get home.

    3) My broadband is 1Mb.

    4) What is duplexing? Do I need 2 network cards per PC to achieve it? How to I force 100Mb speed, I think current router autoswitches.

    I will try optimising for throughput when I get home.
     
  12. dogtanian38

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    Every PC has a full duplex network card don't worry about that. I think the problem may be:

    Are you sure that all ports on the router are operating at 100mbit/s - mine has 4 100mbit/s sockets and one 10mbit WAN socket for connecting to say a ADSL modem. If I plugged one PC into this by mistake (and I have done this when friends bring laptops over), it goes horribly slowly in comparison.

    Also can you log into the router and check if anything is set up badly on it?

    Is the cable a crossover cable or a straight through cable? Most routers and PC's can tell which cable and have no problems however connected, but you may find older equipment drops speed as a result of this?

    Your router is designed to share a 1mbit/s internet connection, and handling 100x that much traffic may be too much for it. Does it get unnecessarily warm?

    ps Ditch the USB connection and get a proper ethernet modem. USB is awful for this kind of thing. Try one of these:

    http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/prod...2hvd19wcm9kdWN0X292ZXJ2aWV3&product_uid=64619

    4 Fast 100Mbit/s wired ports for now, wireless when you need it, a built in ADSL modem to save a box and electric socket and a USB socket so you can share a printer without having that PC on too.
     
  13. Jim_Fear

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    You dont need two network cards for duplexing as any half decent card can do it now. Duplexing just means data can be sent and recieved silmoutaniously. You can for this in the same area I showed in one of my attachments above, if you go to the Control Panel, then System, go to the Hardware tab, Device Manager and expand the network adapters list you'll see your main network interface in the list (you MAY have more than one), highlight it then click Properties. You can change the duplex options as seen below, you will lose your connection temporarily when you click ok and your switch may not support full duplex but its work a try.

    [​IMG]

    Another thing that could be a problem, the cabling, maybe you're usingthe wrong speed cable to connect to your switch, this could explain the slow speed, only Cat5 and above will support faster than 100Mb LAN connections, you could be using that for your crossover cable, again that could explain the speed differences.
     
  14. Jim_Fear

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    Also one more thing, if your cable is Cat5 or above (it should be printed on the cable somewhere) then you could be suffering some interference as I should imagine it would be UTP (unshielded) cable. It isn't running anywhere near any power cables at all is it?
     
  15. RockySpieler

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    Thx again,

    I will be busy tonight....... :)

    The ADSL Router is 4 Port ethernet + USB, I am only using USB as a temporary solution. Until I realised I had a slow speed issue, I was using ethernet net cables between router and each PC.

    How can I check (force) that each componet (PC1 on board Lan) (PC2 on-board Lan) and Router are running at 100Mb.

    JimFear's picture shows 100Mb Full & Auto amongst other options, should I try 100Mb Full?

    On both PC's the XP View Connection screen shows 100Mb whether I use CrossOver, or ethernet direct to router. Firewire shows as 400Mb on same screen.

    I will check help sites for router when I get home.

    A "IT" GUY AT WORK SUGGESTED THAT IPv6 WAS A BAD THING TO USE, I WAS INITIALLY TOLD TO USE IT BY ANOTHER PC BOD, I will try without IPv6 tonight.
     
  16. Monty Burns

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    Just something else for you to investigate.

    You might want to firmware upgrade the BIOS on the router. Many problems can be solved as routers often have bugs when manufactured.

    Example. My 1 year old Linksys router just would not copy certain xbox files over wifi (cable was fine) - bios upgraded and now its fine! Very bizarre as nothing about this was mentioned in the patch notes that could of affected this.

    If you google the names on the router you should be able to find out if its a rebadged D-Link or similar.


    Be warned though, do not do a bios upgrade until you have saved off its config and are confident about putting them back on - failure to do this correctly could destroy the router.


    Best of luck!
     
  17. Jim_Fear

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    IPv6 isn't fully supported yet because it hasn't some into place, rather than using a 12 digit code seperated into 4 groups of 3 to determine network addresses it uses a 12 digit hexadecimal address in 6 groups of 2 digits. You will still be using an IPv4 address though because i currently do not know of much (if any) home networking gear that fully supports IPv6, infact I dont even know if anything is fully supportive of it yet. Its been a year since I did my training course so I'm not sure if my has changed because i'm confined to IT support instead of Network Admin at the place I work :( :thumbsdow
     
  18. MikeK

    MikeK
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    Is your "router" a 4 port broadband router - something like a Dlink DI604?

    If so, it's not doing any routing between the ethernet ports, it's switching, and these are not the same thing at all!

    Your problem could be an autonegotiation problem between one or both PCs and the switch - though it could also be that the switch itself simply isn't up to near wire speed switching.

    The Dlink site talks of a built in "New Integrated Cable Diagnostic Utility" - you could run that if you have it on yours and see what it says about the two wired connections to the PCs. If you don't have it, and your device is a 604, then you could consider updating the firmware in order to get it - do follow the instructions though, as there are various versions of the 604.



    PS - as Jim said, don't bother with IPv6 - it's totally unnecessary for your setup - IPv4 is all that's required here!
     
  19. Jim_Fear

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    I probably should have mentioned the old router/switch situation earlier but didn't want to makt things too confusing
     
  20. RockySpieler

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    1) Well I have checked the cables, they have CAT5 printed on them

    2) Safecom 4 Port ADSL Router SAMR-4114

    http://safecom.cn/code/sub/category.asp?subcatid=1&prdid=4

    3) The Router Does not have latest firmware. Trawled through their forum, no similar problem.......they call me "Static hands" at work, I can break anything electrical I touch :) .

    4) My Network is on-board, so with the Device manager Settings for NVIDA nForce Networking, I have changed the following:-

    a) "Optimised for" throughput (was CPU)
    b) "Speed/Duplex setting" Autonegociate for 100FD (was just Autonegociate)

    I will try some of the other setting tomorrow. Thx 4 everyones help.
     
  21. dogtanian38

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    In the manual section 6.2.1: is this set correctly?

    PS Although yours has a different name, mine is branded Origo, the software is exactly the same, and mine is also 'epicrouter'. I guess they are the same hardware inside. There is a full support forum for this router here:

    http://www.adsltech.com/faq/

    Nice - I had this as a bookmark from ages ago and guess what - it mentions updated branding to 'Safecom'. Try there.

    PS Why am I a New Member - I joined before everyone who posted above?
     
  22. Jim_Fear

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    I think the rank is done on post count, you only have 28 so you'll probably still be sitting in the new user rank :)
     
  23. RockySpieler

    RockySpieler
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    Dogtanian38

    thx for reply I will check the manual,

    You mention in your later post that you have the same router (rebranded), does that mean that my Router is suitable for file sharing i.e do I need to buy a new one like your ebuyer post (I do not want wireless yet).

    Also mine only has 4 10/100 ports, + USB, + ADSL modem socket. You refer to a 10Mb WLAN socket is this ADSL modem socket?
     
  24. Paul Shirley

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    Try turning off the nForce hardware firewall, it caused massive slowdowns with both my routers. I ended up disabling the NIC and using the 2nd onboard Realtek NIC on my nForce2 and nForce3 boards.
     
  25. RockySpieler

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    Just to feedback some progress.......

    I now have both PC connected via gigabit PCI cards using a cross-over cable, both are still connected (wired motherboard 10/100) to the router/modem. When I transfer files across, I bridge the 2 connections. I get 7-8% ultilization according to network activity (using <crtl-alt-del>) which makes sense given my transfer speeds.

    This is fine, but loses my advanced IP setup (LowID until I unbridge).

    I have a couple of questions.......

    Do I have to bridge to get data to transfer, or is there another way to set up the 2 gigabit lan pci cards?

    Is this speed approx. 0.5GB / min expected (150sata to 133ata transfer)?

    I am reluctant to buy a gigabit router/modem given the relatively slow transfer speeds I initially got using my 10/100 router/modem compared to using my 10/100 cross-over cable (before buying gigabit cards). Is my reluctance justified?
     
  26. Mark Grant

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    I dont understand why you are using two networks connections from each PC :confused:

    The easy way (how I do it as I am not at all a networking expert ) is to buy a cheap but reliable gigabit switch such as a Netgear GS605 5 port or GS608 8 port
    http://www.nickknows.com/description.php?id=480 5 port


    http://www.nickknows.com/description.php?id=481 8 port


    cheap at &#163;24 approx + VAT and delivery for the 5 port, check ebuyer and other suppliers etc.

    Connect the PC's into the gigabit switch, then connect a network cable from port 1 (for example) on the gigabit switch to a port on the ADSL router you have already.

    The PC's that have gigabit network cards will then be connected to each other at 1 gbps, internet access will be through the cable from the gigabit switch to your ADSL router (100 meg) that is plenty fast enough for internet access.

    You only need one network connection from each PC, not the two you are using now.

    This is easy, and it works well :)


    As long as your ADSL router is a good one with a built in firewall, no need for a software firewall in each machine (in my opinion of course)


    Mark.
     
  27. weebroonieuk

    weebroonieuk
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    mike will the gigabit switch still allow both pc's internet access aswell as being able to communicate accross the network with just one connection from the adsl router?

    that is what i want to acheive as i want gigabit speeds for the media pc's and and file server and would also like to connect up the xbox 360's we have would the type of switch u suggested do all that and allow all the xbox's and pcs to have access to the internet too ?
     
  28. The Dude

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    It would.... imagine the switch almost as adding gigabit ports to your router.. ;)


    As long as you have the two networks connected together, then any PC/Xbox (on either network) will be able to access the internet, and all the devices will be able to see each other.

    Any gigabit devices connected through the gigabit switch will talk to each other at 1000MB, any other connections will be 100MB. :)
     
  29. weebroonieuk

    weebroonieuk
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    excellent ive been trying to sus that out for ages all people ever should have said was "imagine the switch almost as adding gigabit ports to your router.. "

    thats magic ! also would it all be automatic e.g. just plug all network cables into the switch and turn everything on and they will be networked or will i have to run the network setup in windows as the last time i looked at switches the ones i liked appeared not to have a web interface to control it like a router ?
     
  30. The Dude

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    The hardest part will be plugging in the cables. :smashin:
     

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