Home Network layout during Renovation...

Discussion in 'Networking & NAS' started by Adam182, Oct 24, 2017.

  1. Adam182

    Adam182
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    Hi everyone, I'm currently undergoing a full DIY house renovation (back to brick) and am in the process of planning out the home ethernet network/AV.

    I will be using cat6 UTP cable throughout, and solid copper Coaxial for Sat/Aerial.

    This is the plan I've come up with so far and would love any feedback/ideas/advice.

    I'm a complete newbie to this but have been researching like a maniac so please excuse any silly mistakes I might need pulling up on..

    [​IMG]

    Thankyou, Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. maf1970

    maf1970
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    For the ethernet network always put in more connections than you will need to each location. This way if anything goes wrong you can just change to another connection. For your switch go for a gigabit one rather than 10/100 as price difference is negligible nowadays.

    Any reason for choosing the back bedroom for node zero ? Another common option would be the loft.

    BTW like the diagram.
     
  3. ChuckMountain

    ChuckMountain
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    Looks good, couple of observations\questions:-

    If I add up the satellite connections you have 10? in total. A normal Sky dish can take up to an octo lnb so you either run with that and loose 2 connections or you go with a satellite multiswitch in which case you can use one cable for both aerial and satellite feeds. However with Sky Q it changes things a bit so the same wiring doesn't always work.

    +1 for more ethernet connections. If you post in the cables sections or get a mod to move it you may get more responses.

    You should probably call them Wireless Access Points, rather than extenders as that has a slightly different meaning. I would look at the UniFi access points as they work really well.

    Have you thought about having any central sources?
     
  4. mickevh

    mickevh
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    + another one for putting in more UTP that you think you need. As I'm fond of saying, cable is cheap compared to the hassle of installing it, and when it's a building site it the best time to install it.

    IIRC, to be "properly" cat6 compliant, amongst many other requirements, UTP should really be installed into "containment" - conduits, trays and so forth - and not just "tacked to the wall and plastered over" (which you shouldn't really do with any UTP, but sometimes it's unavoidable.)

    Have you considered analogue telephone...? Phones can run over exactly the same type of UTP as ethernet, (indeed, UTP was originally invented for phones,) so you might want to plan in some additional lobes for phones (ie one for each room) and don't forget a lobe from wherever your telephone Master Socket is to "node 0." Thence you can patch/distribute the phone extensions as desired at node 0 as well as the data (albeit that ethernet and POTS need to be kept electrically separated.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2017
  5. Adam182

    Adam182
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    Firstly thankyou all for your feedback, its much appreciated.

    Again thanks for all the feedback everyone!
     
  6. ChuckMountain

    ChuckMountain
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    In terms of a multiswitch the normal set up is and ignoring Sky Q if you don't think you will get

    You have a standard satellite dish with a Quadro LNB, with 4 cables from that to the Multiswitch. The multiswitch also accepts a DAB, FM and TV signal from respective aerials. It then typically has 5 - 20 outputs which run to the respective rooms. These individual cables each carry Sat\DAB\FM\TV signals. At the room end you typically have a triplexer which looks like this

    [​IMG]
    Though you can get one with two sat outputs or euro modules to give you the combination you want. You still need to run 2 cables to a Freesat box that has 2 inputs but it gives a bit more flexibility.

    You can use a standard Sky dish with a Quad LNB however the multiswitch has to support it and if you are starting from scratch go with a slightly bigger dish to give better signal and prevent any loss.

    __

    By central sources I meant you could for example have a Freesat box locally or media player if you want to watch say something recording on the one box in the lounge and the bedroom.

    You can use ethernet cables for a whole load of things. If you want to use for phones don't bother running separate lines, just use these converters

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Adam182

    Adam182
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    Again cannot thank you enough for this help.
     
  8. mickevh

    mickevh
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    I am still a little confused over how phones work over the cables, I didn't realise I wouldn't be using analogue phones in my plan, I just read that phones can run over Ethernet so thought that would make sense to just run Ethernet, I was planning on using one of those phones that have a central point and 2 extra wireless phones linked to it, then just leaving these in other rooms

    Perhaps it's worth emphasising the point that the cable is called "UTP" (Unshielded Twisted Pair) and not, as is often cited, "ethernet" cable. UTP was originally designed for telephones and way back when, some bright spark noticed that there was a lot of UTP in office buildings already (often in form of "structured cabling") and realised that if they could repurpose the cable for data networking use, it might help sell these new fangled "LAN" things to the suits more easily because they wouldn't have to spend money on yet another load of cabling to avail a computing network. Back in the day, business people had a real hard time spending money on anything they cannot "touch and see:" 1000 GBP for a "PC" - no problem, they could poke them and it went "ping." But spend money on wires...? how does that help me make more profit..? And boy did they have a hard time with buying "software" ("Why do I have to buy 1000 copies, can't I just buy 1 disc and install it everywhere.")

    Anyway, if one remembers the "history" of UTP, ie it was designed for phones, it's easy to see that more recent UTP variants to ever higher electrical performance standards should have no problem carrying ancient old POTS voice. My favourite "quick reference" page on UTP is in the following link... How to wire Ethernet Cables It doesn't explicitly talk about the history, but look at the table of "cats" at the bottom and there an implicit hstorical time line there.

    So what we do in big offices in put in lots of UTP, then decide how to use it. Each cable lobe will be ascribed purpose by the way (and the equipment) we "patch" it all together in the "comms. room(s.)" Thusly we don't need to install one type of cable of network, one for phones, etc. - we can make it all the same and just make sure there's plenty of it. (Though, POTS use in commercial environment is rare as we've mostly moved over to VOIP and other "digital" telephony systems - POTS is mostly in the littlest of little "branch offices" & SOHO's where they only have "one line.")

    So ethernet and POTS can be run over the same type of wiring, but the two have to be kept separate - both electrically and physically. In your case, you would achieve by which lobe is connected to what in your "node 0:" Lobes availing ethernet would be connected to your switches. Lobes availing POTS need no "active" component to joins them together, they just need to be electrically "spliced" to each other in a "common bus," with with a funky multi-way patchcord or by lashing together some patch panel ports.

    Putting "phones over ethernet" is a different thing, often referred to as VOIP (Voice Over IP.) VOIP entail taking the POTS, converting (digitising) it, then transmitting alongside the data. You then need "special" VOIP telephone handsets which are often a lot more expensive than the 5.99 POTS phones you buy on the high street. So VOIP for SOHO is generally not worth the expense.

    Incidentally, if you are contemplating 24 port switch(es) in habitable space, beware that, unlike "desktop" switches, they could be fan cooled which means they make a noise and might chuck out a surprising amount of heat.

    Vendors used to laugh at me when I asked them about the audible noise from their switches, but I'm pleased to see that some are now citing both the noise characteristics and heat output in the data sheets.






     
  9. mickevh

    mickevh
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    As well as the RJ45-BT type "converters" above, you can also use a "modular" faceplate and socket system which allows you to mix and match BT and RJ45 (ethernet) sockets in the same faceplate. Such avoids needing the dangly converter thing and prevents anyone inadvertently plugging a phone into a data socket or vice versa, but others argue it's less convenient if you want to repurpose a socket in the future (POTS to data or vice versa) as you have to physically change the socket to do so.
     
  10. Adam182

    Adam182
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  11. Frankly41

    Frankly41
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    Also stranded and solid core cat6 is not the same although.
    Stranded is for short runs and not recommended for over 6 meters, stranded Cat cables have a higher attenuation than solid category cables but are more flexible so ideal for moving around and plugging in repeatedly.
    Solid cables are used in permanent and semi-permanent installations, its designed for longer distance, sometimes called horizontal or drop cable runs, PoE, and HD.
    Not as flexible so no really tight bends.
    Low smoke (LSOH or LSZH) cables for indoors and should be CPR compliant now really
     
  12. Adam182

    Adam182
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    Thanks for the heads up Frankly41, I was thinking solid for all drops and then just premade stranded for the patch cables between Patch Panel > Switch.

    I had planned on standard PVC Solid cable (Cat6 UTP PVC Solid Cable (Reel) | Cat6 Cable) but I have noticed the LSOH is only a few quid more, any reason not to take the LSOH over standard PVC?
     
  13. mickevh

    mickevh
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    Lobes availing POTS need no "active" component to joins them together, they just need to be electrically "spliced" to each other in a "common bus," with with a funky multi-way patchcord or by lashing together some patch panel ports.

    I'm struggling to understand this part, so do the lobes availing POTS not connect > Switch > Router?


    Correct - POTS should NOT be connected to your ethernet infrastructure anywhere, not least because the POTS circuit from the telephone exchange carries something like 50volts which may or may not harm your ethernet devices, but I wouldn't care to try it out just in case!

    POTS and Ethernet use fundamentally different signalling, voltages and cabling paradigms and the two should not be "mixed."

    Ethernet uses a "star" topology. Each ethernet cable lobe must have one, and only one, device connected on either end. Things like switches and routers "count" as such as device. So in a SOHO LAN, 99% of the time each cable lobe will have a "thing" on one end and a switch/router on the other. The switches and routers are "active" devices that send/receive data up/down the appropriate cable lobes as require. If you think of ethernet data as discrete little units called "packets" like letters in the post, the switches/routers are like the sorting offices staffed with posties directing each packet where it need to go.

    POTS is totally different: Firstly, it's entirely "analogue" technology (or at least the bit to your house is, the "trunk" network is almost entirely digital these days) conveying really old fashions AC signals - just like the cables connecting your Hi-Fi to it's speakers. POTS (in SOHO) uses a "common bus" topology - basically you just have to "splice" together all the cable lobes that need to carry the POTS - there's no need for any "active" components to effect the joins - you can literally use a "junction box" or "daisy chain" from socket to socket to socket.

    However, with UTP "structured cabling" in situ there's a better way: We can create the "junction/splice" for the POTS in your node 0. Either we need to create "multi-way" (or "fan out") patchcord that joins the incoming phone line to all the lobes we're going to use for phones, or we can "jump" together some patch panel ports to effect the same thing. I'd prefer the latter as it's neater, but either way should work.

    I suppose for completeness, I should mention DSL (broadband.) That arrive at your house one the same (physical) line as your POTS but uses much higher frequencies than you can "hear" with the human ear. As some point the (human) audible POTS signals and the DSL signals need to be "split." Often this is done in your telephone master socket. From there, your take the POTS down one line and distribute it to other extensions (as above) and the DSL down another to your router's WAN/Internet port.

    Some people prefer to take the "full fat" combined POTS/DSL signal intact to their "node 0" then effect the "splitting" in the node 0 locale, especially if that's where they plan to locate their router (it means saving a cable from the master socket to node 0.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
  14. ChuckMountain

    ChuckMountain
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    You can use the "network" cable for a variety of uses. So for example in mine I use it to carry IR for controlling the Sky Q box in the garage from the lounge. I also use a separate adaptor to carry the 12V signal to switch the sub on and off. These two are on the patch panel but don't ever get patched into the switch as it wouldn't no what to do with them.
     
  15. Adam182

    Adam182
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    Thankyou again for the great explanation! My phoneline is currently disconnected at the moment and there is no master socket. Do you suggest in this case to get the new master socket fitted at node 0 if possible? would there be any line degredation if this wasn't possible and I had to run a cable from the master socket to node 0?

    Thankyou for the info, so does this involve plugging some kind of IR device into an Ethernet port in order to feed it the signal?
     
  16. Adam182

    Adam182
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    Thankyou again for the great explanation! My phoneline is currently disconnected at the moment and there is no master socket. Do you suggest in this case to get the new master socket fitted at node 0 if possible? would there be any line degredation if this wasn't possible and I had to run a cable from the master socket to node 0?

    Thankyou for the info, so does this involve plugging some kind of IR device into an Ethernet port in order to feed it the signal?
     
  17. ChuckMountain

    ChuckMountain
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    Something like this

    3.5mm Stereo Jack Plug / Socket To CAT Adaptors For IR Cable Extension

    But this is part of a bigger solution that you need to consider when designing\speccing what you want.
     
  18. mickevh

    mickevh
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    I wouldn't care to make a recommendation as to where "best" to locate your MS - options have virtues and vices and I don't think there's any particular "right" and "wrong" way.

    For example, MS at your node 0, it's (arguable) more convenient for you, but a future house buyer may not think so. It's a value judgement more than anything. OpenReach may also be choosy about where they are prepared to locate it (everything up to and including the MS "belongs" to OpenReach and once installed, strictly speaking you are not at liberty to tamper with it. Or I guess more pragmatically, if you ever have to get them out to investigate a line fault and they see something "amiss" before the MS as a result of your actions, they may charge you to rectify it.)

    There shouldn't be any problem extending the line from MS to node 0 wherever you "split" the POTS & DSL signals. Given that the signals have already traveled hundreds, maybe thousands of metres from the exchange, a few tens of metres more shouldn't make a radical difference. (On one job I had, I took an ADSL link about 130m from the MS with no issues.)

    However, ensure such cable runs are UTP not cheap "flat" cable sold on the high street as "telephone extension" cable. It's the "twists" in UTP (it's what the "T" stands for) that help reject interference and obviously "flat" cables lack twists and can function more like an antenna.
     
  19. Adam182

    Adam182
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    Thanks for the info, good point about OpenReach being choosy, I bet you are right. Could I just use the Solid Cat6 cable I'm using for the drops to extend from the MS to Node 0?
     
  20. mickevh

    mickevh
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    Yes - Solid core cable for any permanent or semi-permanent installed cable runs terminated onto IDC "punch down" socketry; braided AKA "patch" cable terminated onto plugs for desk drops, hookups, patching and so forth.

    "Patch" cable is generally for shorter lengths (and/or that move a lot,) though "shorter" is a relative term - you can buy pre-made "patch" cables 10m long without much difficulty (they are "shorter" compared to potentially 90m long permanent runs.)

    You can "get away" with terminating solid core onto plugs, but you're not supposed to. It's harder, verging on impossible to terminate patch cable onto IDC's.

    And of course, there are all sorts of "special" plugs and sockets to cope with the mis-matches (e.g. "special" RJ45 plugs for use on solid core cables, etc.)
     
  21. Adam182

    Adam182
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    Thankyou for this invaluable info. I am unsure whether to terminate at Euro Modules or just use brush plates and go direct.

    I have planned out the kitchen and lounge runs and would love if anyone has any feedback/suggestions.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  22. ChuckMountain

    ChuckMountain
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    Just be careful with your sub cable as that is not the same as speaker cable and requires a shielded coax cable
     

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