Home Network Installation

chukwe

Well-known Member
A network engineer visited my house this morning to see house we can get cat6 cables to the loft so that I can put Ubiquiti APs in the bedrooms upstairs.

The first solution was to bring the cable from the lounge which is in front of the house and where the Virgin SH4 is situated to the outdoor wall and run it up to the roof, then into the loft. Is this a good solution?

Secondly, I wanted 3 APs for 3 bedrooms upstairs but he said it 1 AP should be enough in the central area. That installing 3 APs may cause interference between them. Is that true?

He said he'll charge me £150 to do the job as long as I provide cables and AP(s). I guess that's okay.

Finally, what's the best solution to network 1/3 ubiquiti APs? Buy UDM Pro etc?
 

Seb Briggs

Distinguished Member
Depending on the construction of your house a single Ubiquiti Access Point WiFi 6 Lite upstairs should be fine. Though wire for extras just in case.

APs can cause interference if not setup correctly

What are you doing for downstairs , you should really be adding Ubiqiti APs here as well

At the simplest level you can network the APs just using the Virgin SH4, and a POE switch or injectors.
 

chukwe

Well-known Member
Thanks for reminding me to put one downstairs. I totally forgot.

That means I need to buy 2/3 Ubiquiti Access Point WiFi 6 Lites.

Can I use one POE switch/injector to manage all the APs or each with it's own?
 

Seb Briggs

Distinguished Member
Thanks for reminding me to put one downstairs. I totally forgot.

That means I need to buy 2/3 Ubiquiti Access Point WiFi 6 Lites.

Can I use one POE switch/injector to manage all the APs or each with it's own?


You can use one switch , 4 port , or individual injectors.

They dont manage the APs they just provide power over the ethernet cable.

Management is done by the Unifi App, which can be installed on a PC, Smart Phone or is already included in Ubiquiti devices such as Cloud Key or UDM(P)
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
You can deploy AP's literally next to each other, as long as they are tuned to a radio channel plan that doesn't interfere with each other. But there's the rub - in the 2.4GHz waveband, there's not many channels to choose from (basically 3 and even then you have to accept a halving of max. speed of the N protocol,) in the 5GHz waveband, similar restrictions apply but there's more radio channels available and more scope for making acceptable trade offs between the number of channels used, and how "wide" they are (which effects the speeds significantly, though the details of the relationship is complex) for the N/AC/AX protocols. Though it's worth noting that some of the older/cheaper SOHO market kit doesn't support all the available 5GHz channels (my router only support 4.)

I agree with what others have said, you could try a single AP centrally located and see how well it works for your use case, but if you deploy cabling to allow you to move your AP and/or install other AP's subsequently if it doesn't work out, you've got "options." It's always difficult to make specific recommendations without a site visit or at the very least a floor plan.

Beware that a lot of "IT" guys, well meaning as they are, have little if any understanding of how radio, let alone Wi-Fi, actually works. I sometimes think I'm a bit odd that, on hearing I was to plan and deploy a radio based system where how the radio signals propagate matters, I went and learned something about the fundamentals of radio! :D But them I am strange.
 
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wormvortex

Member
What's the current obsession with Ubiquiti APs? Every post seems to be about them it seems.

Are they same amazing new tech?
 

Seb Briggs

Distinguished Member
Used them for everything from a Single AP in a small house, a whole site WISP Wifi for a large canal marina, to a large secondary school whole network.

Same technology on all three, slightly different physical APs and switches but the same basic principles.
 

chukwe

Well-known Member
Thanks @Seb Briggs . According to the specification of the Access Point WiFi 6 Long-Range, it should be powered by 802.3at PoE. The ones you recommended says "802.3af PoE".

Are you sure there are compatible?
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
The different IEEE POE standards are mostly about power deliver - there's a few versions now that offer increasing wattages. You need to ensure that the POE injector you use (whether a POE switch or stand alone injector) is capable of supplying as much power as the end point requires. Otherwise you may find the end point (AP in this case) either doesn't work at all, or drops down some of it's features to account for a lack of power. For example (many years ago,) I had some AP's that would reduce the number of radio chains used and/or drop the ethernet ports down to "only" 100mbps instead of Gigabit if they weren't getting enough juice. Your mileage my vary, so check what the endpoint requires, then check that the injector has high enough capabilities.

There's a couple of "proprietary" POE standards to muddy the waters, but generally any IEEE compliant injector will "work" with any IEEE compliant end point - you don't have to "worry" that (eg) brand X IEEE 802.3at injector is "compatible" with (eg) brand Y IEEE 802.3at end point - as long as both comply with the appropriate IEEE standard, they should "work."

For example, if you have an AP that wants 803.2at (25 watts) but your POE injector "only" supplies 802.3af (13 watts,) end point may not work or work in a degraded state. Whereas "the other way around" if you have a 803.2at (25 watt) injector but the end point is only 802.3af (13 watt) compliant, the injector will (usually) fall back to operating on 802.3af mode.

Injectors generally cite what they are capable of in the datasheets, likewise the end points. I prefer to source such information from the manufacturers web site rather than descriptions on ebay, amazon, et al just to be safe.

Wiki's article on POE isn't bad if you want a primer.
 
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chukwe

Well-known Member
The different IEEE POE standards are mostly about power deliver - there's a few versions now that offer increasing wattages. You need to ensure that the POE injector you use (whether a POE switch or stand alone injector) is capable of supplying as much power as the end point requires. Otherwise you may find the end point (AP in this case) either doesn't work at all, or drops down some of it's features to account for a lack of power. For example (many years ago,) I had some AP's that would reduce the number of radio chains used and/or drop the ethernet ports down to "only" 100mbps instead of Gigabit if they weren't getting enough juice. Your mileage my vary, so check what the endpoint requires, then check that the injector has high enough capabilities.

There's a couple of "proprietary" POE standards to muddy the waters, but generally any IEEE compliant injector will "work" with any IEEE compliant end point - you don't have to "worry" that (eg) brand X IEEE 802.3at injector is "compatible" with (eg) brand Y IEEE 802.3at end point - as long as both comply with the appropriate IEEE standard, they should "work."

For example, if you have an AP that wants 803.2at (25 watts) but your POE injector "only" supplies 802.3af (13 watts,) end point may not work or work in a degraded state. Whereas "the other way around" if you have a 803.2at (25 watt) injector but the end point is only 802.3af (13 watt) compliant, the injector will (usually) fall back to operating on 802.3af mode.

Injectors generally cite what they are capable of in the datasheets, likewise the end points. I prefer to source such information from the manufacturers web site rather than descriptions on ebay, amazon, et al just to be safe.

Wiki's article on POE isn't bad if you want a primer.

Thanks for this detailed write up. Wow!! @mickevh Are you a University Professor?
 

chukwe

Well-known Member
The engineer will come on Friday to add cables to 3 bedrooms upstairs with faceplates and 1 AP LR 6 in the central area upstairs.

This means I will have 4+ cables coming into the front lounge.

How do I manage the incoming network? Should I buy a switch like Switch Lite 8 PoE or UDM Pro?
 

oneman

Well-known Member
Are you running just cable to each room ?

I would honestly hardwire as much as possible especially streaming devices. So each room probably a TV, maybe a firestick or STB. Don't forget speakers, IOT hubs like Hive or Hue. And maybe CCTV as well.

For the aggregation point probably a 8 or 16 port 1Gb plus PoE switch. This is why once you get past a couple of connections that most people have their aggregation point under the stairs, loft or somewhere out the way.
 

Seb Briggs

Distinguished Member
Though to keep costs down you could just get a lower cost 8 port POe switch , like the one I linked to earlier and use the UNiFi App to manage the network
 

chukwe

Well-known Member
Are you running just cable to each room ?

I would honestly hardwire as much as possible especially streaming devices. So each room probably a TV, maybe a firestick or STB. Don't forget speakers, IOT hubs like Hive or Hue. And maybe CCTV as well.

For the aggregation point probably a 8 or 16 port 1Gb plus PoE switch. This is why once you get past a couple of connections that most people have their aggregation point under the stairs, loft or somewhere out the way.

I was thinking of add other areas of the house including the kitchen but running cables externally into every area of the house may make my house look like spider webs
 

mickevh

Distinguished Member
If buying a POE switch, give some attention to the "power budget" of the switch. It is not at all unusually for a POE switch to NOT be able to supply full POE power on all ports simultaneously.

Most switches have an available power "budget" which is cited in the datasheet. The "game" is that you have to assess the POE requirements of all the endpoints you intend to connect to such a switch and thence ensure that the switch has enough power budget available to be able to service them all. I recommend allowing for a good chuck of "margin" between your planned POE requirements and the available budget to give a bit of headroom. Bear in mind that a lot of devices draw more power when booting up than when in "steady" operating state (though even then it fluctuates a bit.) Some switches try to assist with this by powering up the ports one at a time, or in groups of 4, etc. but check the specs. to be sure.

Better switches with a management interface will often have some tools to display and monitor the POE usage - sometimes even with a history, but again, check the specs. to know what you are getting.
 
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BigA1

Well-known Member
Little bit of a "Necro" post, but thanks to all on here as this information will be properly helpful.......... when I can figure out what the heck any of it means...!!!

My situation is almost identical so be very interested to hear what the OP ended up doing and if possible what set up they used. @chukwe

Only difference is that I was going to try and waterproof the gear up in the loft as we have previously had sever condensation. We're hoping a new ridge tile system will prevent it happening again, but for the sake of a few quid on the right housings I think I won't risk it...

Oh, and with WiFi 6a now being a thing... is it worth me looking into that as an option for the AP's...?
 

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