Home HDMI Over IP Setup

CrazyMonkey

Standard Member
Good evening folks!

I am back for more advice please :D

I want to push the outputs from my media centre (Sky Q and Xbox One) through a Gb Switch so I can watch them from any TV in the house (only 3).

My planned lounge layout can be seen below:

Vague Plan.png


This is where I would like to get to, with a speaker on each side of the TV (red 7s). I would also like to add a sub, but this will be further down the line.

I do not have any 4K equipment yet, but would like to ensure the distribution system is ready for 4K (not concerned about 8K).

My plan is to use 2x HDMI over IP extenders such as THIS to convert Sky and Xbox outputs and connect to a Gb switch. I would then run Cat 7 cable from the Gb switch to my TVs. Alternatively, I might get a 2nd hand Av receiver, plug the Sky and Xbox into it, and use 1x HDMI over IP extender to connect to Gb switch so it can be disseminated.

I have done lots of reading this weekend and have a much clearer idea, but am still nervous about pressing the buy button as I have a few concerns!

Can anyone answer the following questions?
  • Is 60Hz sufficient for both 1080 and 4k? I am presuming yes as I will not be PC gaming on this setup.
  • Will 4k 4.2.0 hold me back in any way (most IP extenders only do 4.2.0, not 4.4.4)?
  • Can anyone recommend a brand that provide reliable products? There is a LOT of conflicting reviews on many products, and a lot of advertising that is deliberately misleading (gotta read the small print!).
Any and all feedback will be gratefully received, happy to receive alternative ideas / criticism!

Many thanks :)
Ewan
 

AmericanAudio

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
My first question would be what do you like watching?

Actual install experience makes me ask this, if you are a sports fan, IP is not for you.

But you could look at HDBT Distribution, it will achieve the same thing, but doesn't need to use IP Tech or a switch.
 
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CrazyMonkey

Standard Member
Hello AmericanAudio!

Thank you very much for your reply :)

I enjoy sports as much as the next fella, but it is more for Netflix, AP, BR/DVD and Sky.

I presume your question relates to refresh rates?

Currently at work but will look at HDBT distribution when i get home - thanks!
 

AmericanAudio

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Yes, we have seen football, tennis and cricket balls and players 'stutter' across sky & apple tv.

Some people seem to be able to see it, some dont, some even experoenced motion sickness watching it. This is only based on a single, 6 source, 6 screen IP matrix install and currently there only seems to be one Chipset used by all manufacturers. New, alternative chipset due this year, covid dependant.

However HDBT is far more robust (its the standard we replaced the IP system with) the refresh rate is far far better, 4k easily achieved even over 70m runs

Hapoy to help design and supply.
 

CrazyMonkey

Standard Member
I know what you mean AA, i have seen terrible blur on some shop display TVs - not sure what their excuse is though!

We are partial to a bit of Wimbeldon and golf masters when it is available on normal TV, so i suppose it is important - I want to do it once, do it properly.

The HDBT systems that you recommend do look interesting. I was looking at some of these over the weekend but didn't realise there was a difference between HDMI over IP (HDIP?) and HDBT.

This article (biased i know) provides a reasonably compelling argument for HDIP. Is it just the refresh rate performance that makes you recommend a HDBT system instead?

A second, more independant review again leans towards HDIP. It even goes as far as saying that the 4K performance of HDIP is better than HDBT.

I do not need the range that HDIP gives you. The max distance i would need is ~50m, but the ease of expansion does appeal.

I really appreciate you replying and giving me the benefit of your experience. Are these articles flawed or outdated? Just trying to understand the pros and cons before sketching out a solution and buying equipment.

I have googled a few HDBT systems and found the following that have specs that suggest they would the job:

CYP
NEO

Are these the kind of products you are suggesting?

Thanks again AA (and anyone else who wants to chip in! :) )
Ewan
 

AmericanAudio

Well-known Member
AVForums Sponsor
Blustream are our go-to for the installs we do.

Good solid products and exceptional support, it was their IP system we trialled, but when it wouldnt work, they came our, saw and agreed a straight swap over to their HDBT ProMatrix, they are also very customisable within the Pro / Installer range.

Every installer has their fav's. Other brands include....

Pulse8
HDAnywhere
Blustream
CYP

If you want ultimate robustability (is that a word) Crestron's the dogs, but expensive.
 

CrazyMonkey

Standard Member
Robustability - i like it! :D

Ok, i will look into those equipment providers at home tonight - thanks!

I don't mind forking out a bit of dosh (within reason), as long as it does exactly what it should do and doesn't contain gremlins. If it is too costly, i will wait for equipment costs to drop.

This tech has been around for a while, but for some reason i feel like an early adopter! I guess most people rely on HDMI, hence the lack of user replies.

Thanks again for your input AA 👍
 

CrazyMonkey

Standard Member
You have expensive taste AA! I really like the Blustream products, their GUI couldn't be easier to use (watched their prom video for Video over IP), but crikey they are expensive! 😬

So, conclusions are:

HDAnywhere - Capacity is small, doesn't allow expansion (4x3), Best quality, 4K @ 60Hz, 4:4:4 - £1,249
BluStream - Perfect capacity (4x4), 4K @ 60Hz, but only 4:2:0 - £1,380
Pulse8 - Perfect capacity (4x4), 4K @ 60 Hz, but only 4:2:0 - £1,650
CYP - Highest capacity (4x6), 4K @ 60Hz, but only 4:2:0 - £ 2,000

Would you agree with those selections? Are there others i should look at?

To help, i only have 2x source devices at present. I have 3x Tvs i want sources streamed to, but this could stretch to 4. I haven't really considered sound outputs. I think i would simply take an optical out from TV to speaker system - as required, otherwise i will be running crazy amounts of wire through the house!

I will be honest, Video over IP still appeals, but seriously considering the above HDA and BluStream options. I do not see any benefit in stretching to the P8 or CYP products.

Much obliged!
Ewan
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
The two 'reference' articles miss some of the key points when considering HDBT vs. HD/UHD over LAN, the second article also misses that you can get any number of 'add on' features on both HDBT and HD/UHD over LAN systems so saying only one can down convert 4K to HD at the end points is misleading.

HDBT is more cost effective on smaller systems and has less compression than HD/UHD over LAN vs. HD/UHD over LAN having the advantage of not relying on a central Hub which is often very difficult to expand upon and can be a real hassle to repair in the long term vs. simply dropping in a new and easily sourced Network switch.

Control is often overlooked when considering which system to go with for a DIY install - ease of use is key and this can take time and money to achieve properly. If you wish to use IR it ideally needs to be 'Routed IR' and ideally have an additional 'global' IR Output to allow you to control a connected AVR in addition to the Source devices if the AVR is going in the Central cabinet.

'i feel like an early adopter!' - more like a late adopter :) 4x4 and 4x8 HDBT Matrix by Octava Inc. were our bread and butter residential option three to four years ago whereas now we occasionally replace those HD systems with 4K capable systems or if starting from new we will tend to use multiple source devices and Smart TV's distributed around the house and not have a centralised system.

If you do wish to go with some Centralised Source devices you will never be at the forefront of the latest video trends/features as the HDBT and HD/UHD video processing chips are always two steps behind what is current today and have no chance with what is arriving tomorrow.

One option to consider is to take the latest and greatest output from your Source or Sources through a device which will pass the signal unaltered to an AVR feeding your primary display/zone and then down convert to a lesser signal which you can share to secondary zones, we have put a few 'secondary' zone type systems together using our Octava HD and UHD over LAN solutions.

Joe
 

CrazyMonkey

Standard Member
Thank you for the input Joe!

I totally appreciate that a decent GUI is required. I would be most comfortable setting things up to work solely from a tablet / phone. IR would be ok, but it means having remotes lying around, running out of AAAs etc - glass is better!

The early adopter comment was flippant as there haven't been any users commenting in the thread giving me the benefit of their experiences. AmericanUser has been awesome (thanks!), but as an experienced installer he will naturally not make the same mistakes as a DIY noob such as myself.

It is great to hear that these systems are widespread. It gives me faith that the tech is robust - and that support will be available if req'd.

I am quite happy with not future proofing for next gen tech to be honest. I will be more than content peaking with 4K and Atmos (obsolescence will be my downfall I know, hopefully not for 20 years!).

I am installing a gym - which will have ceiling speakers and a HD TV (will upgrade to 4K eventually, or earlier if forced to by HDBT limitations), nothing crazy. Next will be an extension on the back of the house which will be an open plan living space. This is where I can go nuts, but it will still just be a decent sized 4K TV with an extensive music system. That bit should be the easiest as I can build the AV infrastructure into the construction, rather than retrofit like I have to with the existing rooms. When that is in place, I intend to make the current lounge a bit of a movie / chill room, hence why I am planning to keep the media kit centralised in there. This lends itself to the AVR / HD over LAN secondary zone scenario you mentioned Joe.

We are saving hard for the extension and hope to break ground in a year or two, which makes Av decision making difficult just now. I can already hear people saying 'just wait till then to install an AV distribution system', however there are 2 problems with that:

  • I am fed up with exposed cables in current setup so have to do something.
  • I have time and capacity to retrofit the existing house infrastructure right now, I wont during the extension (and when that is completed, the house is finished, no more dust and crap - fed up with it already!).
All ideas, creative solutions and alternate ways of thinking are welcomed, and please feel free to attack any of the above, quite happy to be challenged!
 

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