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Hitachi 32PD3000 PAL Progressive?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by zAndy1, Jan 19, 2003.

  1. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Hi,
    Does anyone know for sure whether the Hitachi 32PD3000 plasma will accept a PAL progressive signal? Also am I right in thinking the John Sim RGB -> VGA transcoder doesn't work with this display? Does a Pro-V work ok with it?

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  2. prusling

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    Hi Andy,

    I have a 32PD3000 and I'm very keen to find out the answer to this question. It has been suggested that it may not even accept a 480p NTSC progressive signal, but Hitachi's literature clearly states that it will accept both.

    I have been reading up on Fujitsu Hitachi's ALiS system a lot over the past few days, and one suggestion is that is would scale down/up PAL/NTSC to half of the screen's vertical resolution (i.e. 512 lines) in order for the normally interlaced display to function as progressive. If so, you might lose some resolution from PAL's 576p, but its still a little better than the panels that have only NTSC's 480p vertical resolution.

    I don't have a progressive DVD player at present, and have been looking at getting an Xcard for my PC as a cheap route to try out PAL progressive. However, I'd like to try out an NTSC pro player first to check out the true feasibility/benefits of progressive on this panel. Does anyone with one fancy a trial session where I live in Surrey?

    I don't know about the JS transcoder.

    I'm finding is that (non-pro) DVD's are stunning and terrestrial analogue and NTL digital via composite SCART (!) are quite acceptable, but NTL digital via RGB SCART is not quite so good... I'm also keen to try Sky and Freeview to see if either are any better.

    Cheers, Peter
     
  3. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    I asked this question of Hitachi's tech support via e-mail & this is the reply I got

    "The 32PD3000 can accept Progressive Scan via the component input. Officially we say Progressive Scan Input is for NTSC because the PAL Progressive standard is still to be confirmed but we have tested the product with some sample high end DVD players with PAL Progressive outputs and it works fine. As a point of fact if you connect a standard DVD player via scart and set it at RGB level, the 32PD3000 uses its internal Progressive scan convertor and then rescales to 1024 lines before showing on the Panel."
     
  4. JimmyMc

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    As far as I understand it, any screen using the ALIS technology displays a better picture from interlaced sources due to it's technology..

    There have been a few threads on this subject, might be worth seraching the forums on ALIS or Hitachi etc..

    I'm going for a 42PD3000 myself and it's the same thing so I shan't be needing a prog scan dvd player..
     
  5. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    But I'm quite sure the de-interlacing by my DVD player (Philips 962SA using Faroudja DCDi) will be better than the panels own de-interlacing so I feel I won't be making the most of my DVD player, if I feed the panel PAL progressive does it just basically scale it, in which case it will all depend on the quality of the scaling I suppose. I saw one in Powerhouse today and Sky looked a bit ropey, appeared to be bad combing on reds, probably a de-interlacing/scaling problem but I'd like to know if it can be fixed by using e.g. a Pro-V or something?

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  6. JimmyMc

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    That's my point - I believe the panel *interlaces* rather than de-interlaces.. so there's no need for any type of progressive scan at any point..
     
  7. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Right, so feed it a progressive scan signal and it will actually interlace it? mmmm I think I need to see what my DVD player looks like on one of these before buying. I get the feeling I'll get a much better picture quality on DVD with e.g. the Panasonic 37". I dunno, this display sure isn't conventional is it! I've now seen 2 in action and have to say I haven't heard any problems with fan noise so it's put my mind at ease in that respect. Just need to find somewhere that will let me hook a few things up to one and I'll be a lot happier

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  8. JimmyMc

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    Well I don't know where you live but I can recommend nexnix in Horsham, E.Sussex - you can plug, unplug whatever you like and they have the Panny 5, Pio MXE and the Hitachi hung on the wall to demo..

    After spending some hours there with another 4 members from this 'ere forum - I'm sold I'm the Hitachi..

    PS - If you get the Platara range, I'm told the video scaling chip has been moved to the external media box - this is the chip that runs hot and needed the fans, so the screen no longer needs them! Mind you, whether they're still there but on a lower speed I don't know but the noise is supposed to have gone.. thing is, has it popped up in the media-box?!

    Still getting one.. (the Platara rather than just the monitor version)
     
  9. prusling

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    There's virtually no noise from the media box on my 32PD3000 - I doubt there's a fan in there. There's a slight buzz on the panel which varies according to contrast levels, but its almost unnoticeable.

    I'm still not sure I understand the progressive pros and cons with this unit! It would be very useful to know how it handles/scales each type of signal...

    I now have mine on the wall, and the Unicol PLX mount for the 32PD2100 works fine. Hitachi say they use the same mounting points on all their screens.

    Cheers, Peter
     
  10. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Unfortunately nexnix are about a 5 hr drive from me, I'm still tempted to go as I think it might be the only way to put my mind at ease. Peter, what DVD player are you using and how is it connected (S-video, RGB, component?) and what's the PQ like? What sort of picture problems do you see with NTL digital, are they basically source problems or scaling problems do you think? I think I'm getting confused as to whether progressive scan is necessarily better , I see it as a way of smoothing the image and removing jaggies , are we saying that the Hitachi doesn't (can't) do that? I just wonder what some classic de-interlacing test scenes like the beginning of Star Trek Insurrection would look like? Do you have that to test?

    Cheers,
    Andy.
     
  11. steve36

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    I have seen the hitachi 32" and heard an audible buzzing from a distance, but this may have been a production fault.
    The picture quality I saw was very good, even with a cheap DVD player in a superstore.
    I do not know about NTL digital, but would guess that it probably has a similar problem to sky digital with a low bit rate channel you will see some picture faults.
    This will be far more obvious on a 42" screen than 32".
    One other alternative that has been suggested is to consider an external scaler such as the iSCAN Ultra with either the panasonic or pioneer MXE, if your primary concern is NTL digital.
     
  12. prusling

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    Andy,

    I've a multi-region Toshiba 220e connected via Ixos component cable to the media box. To my eyes the PQ is stunning, but I've never seen a picture from a progressive DVD player to compare it with! I'd like to do a comparative test if I can find someone nearby (NW Surrey) with one - if I keep mentioning it, maybe someone will take me up on it!

    I'm still not sure how the Hitachi would handle a progressive source - there's a suggestion in some of the Hitachi material that it would convert 480p (or 576p) to 512 lines and double them over the 1024 lines (writing the same whole 512 line frame in one go on each of the odd and even "fields"). If so, I would expect it to give the usual benefits as described at www.progressivescan.co.uk.

    I'd love to see the Hitachi with an 1080 line HD source as that would use the full resolution of the panel (it apparently discards a few lines top and bottom to give an unscaled picture). No chance though for some time...

    The NTL digital problems via RGB do seem to be scaling artifacts - they're not that bad, but I'm super-critical... Its surprising that a composite feed seems cleaner but softer - on balance I'm living with the RGB, although I'd switch to Sky or Freeview if they were better. I think any plasma shows up flaws in the quality of source material more than a CRT.

    Hope this helps. Cheers, Peter
     
  13. zAndy1

    zAndy1
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    Yeah, thanks for the replies. I'm just wondering whether the picture on the Hitachi will show classic non de-interlaced artifacts such as jaggies. Take Star Trek Insurrection, on a previous plasma of mine (Panny 3 series) via an interlaced DVD player there were jaggies on the bridge at the start and on the rooftop edges, use a progressive scan DVD player and those artifacts disappear resulting in a much cleaner image. I just wonder what the Hitachi will make of it, does it get rid of the jaggies or are they still there. I'll have to see it to know I suppose

    Cheers
    Andy
     
  14. GadgetObsessed

    GadgetObsessed
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    I know that this is a bit off topic but...

    Does anyone have experience of using this display with Sky Digital?
     
  15. steve36

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    I too was considering the hitachi after the glowing reviews (apart from sky digital performance), and was hoping to connect an iSCAN ULTRA to resolve any scaling problems.
    I phoned NEXNIX who told me that due to the way that the ALIS screen works it does not produce much improvement.
    The only way to prove it, is to check yourself. (and then tell us !).

    garydhooper - see the extremely useful thread "Pioneer, Panasonic and Hitachi demo"
     

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