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Hisense B7500 vs Samsung RU7100 vs LG M7100

I have a little question left about signal, my currently is Color 12 bit, YUV 4:2:0, BT.2020 that a correct setting?

My andriod box can setting with YUR 4:2:0, 4:2:2, 4:4:4, RGB, which one is correct, according compare to my PC monitor that set RGB, so the range is 0-255 is not too dark and not too bright, after i watch a 43B7500 i feel range is 16-235 something too bright something too dark so can i set my TV to RGB?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
It's a complicated topic, for video no more than 10bit ycbcr 4:2:0 is used. For non-HDR video, mostly 8bit ycbcr 4:2:0.

BT.2020 is the colorspace transmitted with HDR, whilst rec709 is SDR.

You want your box to automatically change based on what you play. What matters is what signal the TV receives when you play back different media, any manual setting that overrides that may cause problems.

RGB should only be used with computer. You can set Full Range on computer no problem. You will always see limited range no matter what you set since video is always limited range.
 
Before this i send messege to DisplaySpecifications - Specifications and features of desktop monitors and TVs via facebook, today official said the france and germany model have hdr10+


But i send you link about hdr10+ certified product to official wait for answer,

Now i got a little problem about color bit depth, what color bit depth setting correct to my 43B7500?,
I try to see 12 bit depth signal i see noise a lot in dark area, then i change to 8 bit they fine, so what does 12 bit depth signal does?
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
More bits = smoother transition from one colour to the next, it doesn't mean you will get better colours.

You should avoid as much processing as you can, so if the source video is only 8bit, don't try sending 10 or 12 bit to the TV because otherwise there may be unwanted artefacts.

displayspecifications.com don't know anything you or I can't find out, the website is a compendium of information found elsewhere.
 
"As for how the content is passing through from mastering phase until you watch it, everything starts out in YCbCr (also known as YUV or YCC) and ends up in RGB to be displayed by the individual pixels of your TV (unless you have a CRT TV, in which case it remains YUV).

The bottom line is, everything digital is RGB, everything in the movie/TV/broadcast industry is YUV. Everything that's being displayed by a computer is generated in RGB, everything that is being sent to your TV (be it, TV, Blu-Ray, etc.) is YUV.

So at some point from the post-production/mastering until you watch it on the TV, you need to convert from YUV to RGB. The only question is, when do you do it. And the shortest answer is, as late as possible. Preferable at the very end, at the TV side.

Chroma subsampling was something added to decrease the bandwidth required to push picture information in any given media format. As 4K resolution goes, you can't send for example HDR 4K @60Hz as RGB, there's not enough bandwidth in the HDMI spec.

As it's been said, all movies and TV shows that comes from either a Blu-Ray player, or streaming services are "done" in YUV 4:2:0. So the ideal way is to give that exact signal to the TV, and then the TV will take that signal and start working some magic and transform it into RGB to send it to each individual pixel.

Now because of some weird and complicated reasons, HDMI standards limit the amount of available configurations of resolution, bit depth, chroma subsampling and color space. So, for example you can't send 4K @24Hz, 10bit, YUV420, Rec.2020 but you CAN send 4K @60Hz, 10bit, YUV420, Rec.2020 or 4K @24Hz, 12bit, YUV422, Rec.2020, both of which require more bandwidth.

Because of this, with the recent launch of 4K content, there's been a lot of talk about this, because UHD Blu-Ray is served as 4K @24Hz, 8bit, YUV420, Rec.709 and HDR UHD Blu-Ray is 4K @24Hz, 10bit, YUV420, Rec.2020 the exact setup that can't be send via HDMI to a TV. So instead of sending the content untouched to the TV, you have to do some chroma upsampling on the media device and upsample from YUV420 to YUV422 or YUV44 or RGB (if the framerate allows it) then send it to the TV where another conversion will take place."

So, to answer your initial question, always use YCbCr when the content is Movie/TV/Broadcasts, always use RGB when the content is Games."

I copy it from reddit

Ref. https://www.reddit.com/r/OLED/comments/81avu0
Then i read it from Rting,

Ref. Chroma Subsampling: 4:4:4 vs 4:2:2 vs 4:2:0

"The best is 4:4:4 if you tv can handle from rting"

So my content is from "Andriod box", my android box is not Blu-ray player and not a PC, what should i setting RGB or YCbCr, this is very complicate a lot my head got burn,

They said content is Movie/TV/Broadcasts use YCbCr, for game use RGB, If mind is from android box??? what should i do i can't find this answer.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
You should not over-complicate and worry about it, set your box to the automatic setting and if automatic isn't possible, set it to 8bit for SDR and 10bit for HDR.

Don't set a specific colour space setting like BT.2020 because if your box tracks that colorspace when you play SDR material it will be in error. It should be rec709 for SDR and BT2020 for HDR.

You don't have to worry about chroma, you can set 4:4:4. 4:2:2 or 4:2:0, if you set 4:2:0 then you leave the android box doing no processing of chroma, if you set to 4:2:2 you will let the android box process chroma up to 4:2:2 if the source is below 4:2:2 and if you set 4:4:4 you will always rely on the box to process chroma up to 4:4:4.

How good your box does at managing things like chroma or bit depth upscaling is entirely dependant on your box. If it's not an expensive device chances are you are best not using it for this means and only sending the same source as the video, as sometimes adding extra processing incorrectly can cause problems. This may well be why you notice poorer video quality when you set a higher bit depth.

RGB has nothing whatsoever to do with video and should be avoided at all costs unless you have a computer. The only reason to use it with a computer connected to the TV is because the computer already processes video in RGB, so if you don't use it, you convert RGB to ycbcr and back to RGB again instead and add another stage to the conversion process reducing quality.

But really, there's no need to set anything more than the automatic setting. You will only make things worse by changing settings manually if you don't understand them or don't change them according to what you watch. You will never get better picture quality by making a manual change.
 
So the answer for the best ouput android box is RGB, because android box already procress video in RGB like computer (Graphic Procressor), if i set to YcbCr that mean RGB compress to YcbCr sent to TV then tv convert YcbCR to RGB again, this is add unnessesery procress that reducing quality.

Let my try and learn a bit and when i finished the test i will result you, after i read many website, Computer have graphic procressor always procress in RGB, TV always show RGB, send RGB to RGB is the correct deal, Android box have graphic procressor, i bet it they procress RGB at first like computer, not same as blu-ray or hdplayer.

I'm little worry about automatic, because if android box already procress RGB at first why we need to convert to YcbCr then send to TV then TV convert it to RGB again.
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
So the answer for the best ouput android box is RGB, because android box already procress video in RGB like computer (Graphic Procressor), if i set to YcbCr that mean RGB compress to YcbCr sent to TV then tv convert YcbCR to RGB again, this is add unnessesery procress that reducing quality.
No. That is how a computer processes it. Not how an Android box does. For the android box you should use the automatic setting or YCBCR. The box should change what it outputs depending on what you play.

If it doesn't, then chances are its not playing content correctly anyway. Every source device now has to have the ability to change what it outputs to the TV depending on what you play.

What matters is what signal the TV receives, not what the output is set to on the box.
 
Oh it my mistake and my fault again sorry for imagining things, i know this is really hard question but i really need to know about which one is defind that a computer and that already processes video in RGB?, computer have CPU+GPU, android box have CPU+GPU so how can i know it different?,

About automatic setting, i does it and follow you advice, but it have little problem that youtube hdr content is not play correctly because complicate setting about
- SDR to HDR = Force everything to be HDR10, i check signal tv they work hdr10 without doing anything, when i start youtube 4K HDR, they show correct hdr content, then if i disable this, youtube never show hdr and tv never have hdr forever, i need to force this work,
- HDR to SDR = Force every video that not real HDR back to SDR, i love this because fix fake brigtness from fake HDR.

This is my currently understand, then is that real bad that fake hdr work?, i go to calibrate contrast and brightness,



Yes, fake hdr brightness work correctly with no error, so should i stick with this?, if i don't set HDR at first my TV never get HDR from youtube forever, signal with sdr is lame nits brightness and lame color.
 
I have something not done yet, tomorrow i will try to add more brightness on SDR to match fake HDR brightness and see the result, i remember the green color, SDR never show green color like fake HDR when i watch youtube 4k hdr, tomorrow i will try to setting SDR to have the same picture as fake hdr, so if i can't do that i'm little sure, that fake hdr is show the real hdr if the content is real hdr.

I swear to the god, watching via TV get hdr signal can't show the green color like watching via android box, android box can show a better color, this make my brain hurt to find the answer.
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
You must not use this TV for HDR and expect accuracy. There are TVs that cost 10 times what the Hisense B series does and they do not follow correct accuracy in HDR mode. The TV is not designed for HDR, so any time you use it with HDR you are going to get problems with picture compared to SDR, there is no way around that and you face the same problems as everyone faces with a TV similar to the Hisense's calibre.

You can choose between inaccurate HDR, or accurate SDR. Not both. You must not try and convert SDR to HDR or the other way round.

I'm afraid I can't really help you with your specific Android box because I don't own it. My own box which is a Zidoo just uses an automatic setting.

You can't have a dual purpose box that doesn't automatically switch based on the content you watch. The Android box basically has to behave like a Blu-Ray player will.

The test patterns you use are for SDR, if video is set correctly in SDR mode and not HDR you should see values 16-235 only. HDR does not use these guidelines the same way, so if you try to calibrate for HDR using an SDR test pattern, you'll get issues.

My advice to you if you seek an accurate picture is to avoid using HDR on this TV, seek out the SDR version. That isn't to say you can't enjoy HDR, it's just that you can't use HDR on this TV without problems, and this is the same on my budget TCL TV and the same of every other TV at this price range.
 
Thank a lot thank you, today i follow your advice and see the result that my fault again, there no purpose for use fake HDR, now i disable that and go back to normal SDR, and 43B7500 is not HDR TV that is the true and really true, i test by watch youtube 4k hdr content via TV then switch to android box, The different of two is TV accept HDR signal, android box is SDR signal, the result is same, same brightness same same everything it unnessesery to care about HDR signal anymore, they just the name they just the profile picture setting when get HDR signal, you can't see any purpose.

And the one thing, the color, i'm swear that android box with SDR get richer color and better than TV HDR signal, they look like BT.2020 instead of BT.709 but the signal from android box is show correct that a BT.709, i love it more than TV HDR signal they beautiful when i watch PERU 8K, the green of leaf make me excited they really good, i can say i really can't imagine how better tv more than i see from 43b7500 with SDR content, i go out of my house and look at the real of leaf and it got a same green, i look at the sunshine on the wall at afternoon, the nit that my eye see from tv and real life is same,
everything is perfect, they real they true, maybe because my eye is a pool-people type hahahaaaaaa, can't look much more than money in the pocket :DDDDDDDDDD, really thank you again for advice the 43B7500 it make me happy a lot to see it, 350 nit is perfect for my eye even i compare to real life, if more than this i think it look like i look at the sun with no sun glass. :D

Not sure is this true?, At the bed room with dark environment, the guy buy some problem-free HDR tv, see the movie and look at sun scene then TV show 1,000 nit to your eye on dark enviroment, you eye gonna got some problem?
 

Dodgexander

Moderator
Haha glad to have helped. HDR on a true HDR LCD TV can be very, very bright and take some getting used to. I have on that gets almost 1500 nits and its very striking, but not blinding. Samsung have TVs that can get as high as 4000.

In studio they master usually to 4000, sometimes more.
 
thank for repile again and i have a little problem sorry to borther you again, video is peru 8k, i try watching it on my PC monitor (99% sRGB) then watching on TV with different 2 mode SDR and HDR, the one thing i see the different is the color, i'm sure my PC color is correct setting and the color = richer then i watching on TV on SDR color = richer too, the problem is on HDR signal the color is low richer and not beatiful enough, so if my pc setting collect color is richer then tv sdr is same richer color then why hdr10 have low richer color? because my 43B7500 is 70% of BT.2020 that why they can't show all color?
 
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Dodgexander

Moderator
thank for repile again and i have a little problem sorry to borther you again, video is peru 8k, i try watching it on my PC monitor (99% sRGB) then watching on TV with different 2 mode SDR and HDR, the one thing i see the different is the color, i'm sure my PC color is correct setting and the color = richer then i watching on TV on SDR color = richer too, the problem is on HDR signal the color is low richer and not beatiful enough, so if my pc setting collect color is richer then tv sdr is same richer color then why hdr10 have low richer color? because my 43B7500 is 70% of BT.2020 that why they can't show all color?
How are you turning HDR on and off? You should not be able to do this. The video either has HDR or it doesn't. When you play it on your TV if the video has HDR, it will show HDR. If it doesn't. It won't.

You can check on YouTube if HDR is working by checking the stats for nerds. If you play back in HDR it will show the colorspace as REC2020 or BT2020 but if you play in SDR it will show the color as Rec709.

Also, you do not know if the video includes correct colour or not. Its possible the video was mastered incorrectly and despite showing REC2020 the colours are not. If this can happen on streaming services like Disney+ then it can also happen on a YouTube video.
 

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