high level input

[memphisuklf]

Morning guys,

Sorry if this is gonna sound like a bit of a noob question, but here goes.

Just sorting out my brothers new bk xls200 which arrived this morning and I am not sure if I should connect the high level input and if so, how to do it.

He has an onkyo 605 with 5.1 setup and uses it 50/50 for movies/music. As I understand if you are conneceting the high level input you have to connect this into the free speaker terminals (surrround rear?) on the back of the reciever. However he has already Bi-Wired his front speakers into these terminals?

1. Would he after unplug these to get the high level and what are the pros/cons for doing this.
2. Would it would make that much of a difference with the high level input with regards to music/movies?

Advice would be appreciated.

Cheers

 

[Member 639844]

You dont need to use the high level, its main use if for amp thats dont have the LFE connection. If you do want to use it then you dont have to unplug your speakers. The disadvantage of high level is that the crossover frequency isnt taken care of by your amp, so you have to do that yourself with the subs dials based on the manufacturers specs for the speakers. The advantage (which not everyone agrees on to be honest) is a smoother roll off slope which is supposed to integrate better with music. For the high level connection to work though, the Onkyo's bass management will need to be disabled, so you would have to play music in pure audio mode, or the sub would just be running from the lfe socket.

Personally I think you should try it, chances are you will find music very good with the amp in pure audio mode and the sub running as well.

 

[memphisuklf]

cheers for that, a better understanding now.

With regards to connecting the high level input, which terminals would I put them in?

"The disadvantage of high level is that the crossover frequency isnt taken care of by your amp, so you have to do that yourself with the subs dials based on the manufacturers specs for the speakers."

This is the bit i`m struggling with.

 

[Mitch2791]

I have the Gemini 2 and have it connected via both high and low level to my Yam 863 amp. For low level the amp is set to 80hz and sub set to max. For high level the sub is set to 80hz.

As for connecting the high level to the amp, don't worry that you have them bi amped, just choose one set of connectors and connect the 3 wires to them.

Hope that helps

 

[memphisuklf]

Smashing, cheers for the help. Will connect it to the front speaker terminals.

 

[memphisuklf]

Dont know about the gemini 2 but there is only 1 frequency setting on the xls200. Think the gemini 2 has both high and lower level frequency settings along with the gain settings. Still confused as to what I should set this sub to.

At moment all speakers are set to 80hz(including sub) on the amp apart from the fronts which are at 100hz.

On the back of the sub I have both gains set in the middle(12 o`clock position) and the frequency set to 80hz. The Filter is set to "out LFE", phase is set at 0.


If i set the frequency to full I get a load of mid range coming through, rather unpleasent, also at the moment in 5.1 I seem to be getting both high and low coming through and using both inputs, is this right?

With setting the the filter to "out lfe" I take it that the the frequency dial on the the sub is for the high level input?

 

[memphisuklf]

bump

 

[Mitch2791]

Looks about right to me

 

[memphisuklf]

Would have thought the high level should be set much lower than 80hz. i thought it should be set where the front speakers start to roll off (mine being 45hz)? Would I set this to 45hz or a touch higher if this is the case?

 

[Member 639844]

If your amp is bi-wiring then the high level connection wires will need to be connected to the terminals that are powering the bass drivers. The cables simply read the signal and draw no load, so there is nothing to worry about in that respect. The crossover for the high level connection needs to be balanced with your speakers. If your speakers can produce down to 50 hz, then you need to adjust your crossover accordingly. If you then set the sub crossover to 80hz you may find it results in a boomy sound due to to much crossover between the sub and speakers. You need to experiment a little to get it sounding how you like it, but you should start with the frequency your speakers are rated to with perhaps a little crossover, say 10hz or so. So for example, if you speakers are rated down to say 50 hz, I would set the high level connection crossover to 60 hz to begin with and work from there.

Remember, if you amp is working normally, it will run from the lfe channel and the high level will do nothing (unless its crossover is set to 80hz or higher), and the same will be the case for vice versa.

You will need to consult your manual on using the frequency setting for particular settings, but it sounds as though you have to physically switch between modes which could be a pain.

A quick note on your front speakers, why are they set to 100hz. If your sub is set at 80, then your front 2 channels have a 20hz hole right at the crossover point meaning your probably missing a bit of content. They should be set to 80hz.

 

[memphisuklf]

Ok, so to make this work I would need to set my speakers via the amp to full range, not 80z. I then would set the frequency on the sub to around 55hz and then experiment with this until this sounds ok.

I suppose the main problem with doing this would be that in low level the fronts would still be still outputting their full range, not something I would like if that's the case as would rather the sub pickup anything below 80z and not get my speakers on in the act. Am I along the right track with this?

 

[memphisuklf]

Anyone?

 

[Member 639844]

You dont need to set your front speakers to full range, your amp will do this automatically when you switch it to pure audio/full range mode. I will try explain it all from the beginning.

The high level connection reads the bass signal in your main speakers, and reproduces the low end bass it reads from the main speakers output on your amp. For this to work your amp need to be putting the low end bass out to your speakers.

The AVR when running in normal mode will process audio and redirect all the bass below the crossover point (typically 80hz) to your sub via the LFE output, anything below the crossover therefore isnt sent via the speaker output which means there is nothing in the speakers for the high level connection to read, its all sent via the LFE (.1) channel.

When you set all your crossovers on your amp your setting them up for when your amp is running normally with all processing in place. Therefore, when running like this all bass is sent via the LFE channel. Because of this, its impossible to use both high level and low level inputs together (unless your amp specifically has an option to send bass to the speakers and LFE simultaneously, some do and its usually called something like double bass mode or similar).

When you put the amp into pure audio mode, all processing is switched off so the amp then acts like a normal amp, and bass is sent via the speaker channels, which a high level connection can use to reproduce bass this way. With no processing going on the LFE channel isnt working so all the bass is sent via the main speakers only, just as an ordinary amp would. Because there is no processing being done in amp, your have to now do it on your sub, using the crossover setting on the sub and matching it to the performance of your speakers. A little experimentation is best to get it just how you like it.

When you connect via both methods, only one is used at once depending on the mode your amp is in, so switching between them is easy enough via the amp. The crossover for low level should be set to max so the amp is in control. The crossover for high level should be adjusted to match your particular speakers.

Hopefully that covers everything and helps you out

 

[memphisuklf]

Cheers fella, that explains alot. Great advice.

 

[DannyTucker001]

I didn't even see this thread. I've been writing in another almost identical one. Maybe this could be put in a Sticky post or added to an existing one. This query seems to come up quite regularly.

 

[Atari2600]

Hi
so your basically saying is if you have set the speakers as small for 5.1 or 7.1 and when you switch to 2 channel stereo or on the yamaha amps known as "straight" (I think) The amp will automatically swich to large for the front speakers ?

So if this is the case then if I had the sub (bk xls200) connected via low level to the amp then I maybe missing some bass frequency if I switched to 2 ch stereo

on the BK xls200 sub I assume it has a cross over knob for the high level as we'll but would it have frequency hz written around it so it will be easy to set the cross over for the high level, or would it be a matter of Getting 1 of those spl meter thingy to set it

 

[memphisuklf]

Hi
so your basically saying is if you have set the speakers as small for 5.1 or 7.1 and when you switch to 2 channel stereo or on the yamaha amps known as "straight" (I think) The amp will automatically swich to large for the front speakers ?

So if this is the case then if I had the sub (bk xls200) connected via low level to the amp then I maybe missing some bass frequency if I switched to 2 ch stereo

on the BK xls200 sub I assume it has a cross over knob for the high level as we'll but would it have frequency hz written around it so it will be easy to set the cross over for the high level, or would it be a matter of Getting 1 of those spl meter thingy to set it

The frequency dial on the xls200 would be for use with the high level(There is only one dial for this)as the low level would be handled by the av reciever as there is a filter bypass switch on the back of the xls200 to select it this way.

As Moonfly suggested, if you put the Av reciever into pure audio it should set your front speakers to large and then you would just have the find the right crossover settings for your speakers.

 

[baguitos]

[...]
The crossover for high level should be adjusted to match your particular speakers.

Regarding the high level crossover: As fronts I have a pair of Wharfedale 10.3. and a Bk Gemini II for Sub.

According to the specs they have Nominal Frequency Range: 40 hz - 24kHz.
Should I set the crossover a little over 40? Say.. 45 hz?
Isn't this value too low?

 

[memphisuklf]

I would start at 50 and then go from there adjusting it a couple of notches until you are happy with it.

 

[baguitos]

Thanks.

I assume that "go from there" means higher, right? from 50hz to above.

Also, any songs that you recommend to best try these settings?

I currently try it with:
- "Under the Influence" by The Chemical Brothers (heavy bass)
- "Adagio in G minor" by Albinoni (almost no bass)
- "This is The life" and "Mr Rock & Roll" by Amy Macdonald
- random song by 30 Seconds to Mars

these are some songs that I'm familiar with.

For movies I use the usual suspects: Star Wars, Matrix, LOTR, Private Ryan and Master & Commander.

 

[memphisuklf]

I would say higher but it is all down to personal taste. I have front speakers that go down to 45 but my sub is set at 58 as this is what I think gives me the best overall sound, there is no right or wrong unless you want to start using a sound meter.
With regards to test material I would use a variety of music/films and just play around with it until it sounds right to you.